A few noob mesmer questions

[Smart College Boy.3249]

I'm approaching level 70 on my mesmer and not sure what elite spec I want to choose. So far it's a toss up between virtuoso and chrono. Need a few noob questions answered. 

 

1. How does mesmer stealth work in pvp. If I have a phantasm already spawned and use stealth, will my phantasm break my stealth when it attacks?

 

2. If my phantasm is attacking a thief and the thief stealths than reappears, will that phantasm continue attacking the thief when he reappears?

 

3. Can the Chrono shatter 4 skill be spell stolen if you wait 6 seconds to use the continuum shift?

 

4. I read discussions about the general uselessness of phantasms for pvp in 2+ year old threads, but does that still pertain to 2022 pvp?

 

 

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Maybe I should have asked this on the pvp forum since that's what most of the questions focused on.

 

I'll repost it there.

[Urphen.2857]

45 minutes ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

I'm approaching level 70 on my mesmer and not sure what elite spec I want to choose. So far it's a toss up between virtuoso and chrono. Need a few noob questions answered. 

 

1. How does mesmer stealth work in pvp. If I have a phantasm already spawned and use stealth, will my phantasm break my stealth when it attacks?

 

2. If my phantasm is attacking a thief and the thief stealths than reappears, will that phantasm continue attacking the thief when he reappears?

 

3. Can the Chrono shatter 4 skill be spell stolen if you wait 6 seconds to use the continuum shift?

 

4. I read discussions about the general uselessness of phantasms for pvp in 2+ year old threads, but does that still pertain to 2022 pvp?

 

 

1. They do

2. If I'm not totally wrong they will continue 

3. not sure what do you mean with this

4. It depends, phantasms and clones can be kitted, clone can easily be destroyed in pvp what makes mesmers useless in wvw zerg, if the enemy don't know how to counter or don't pay attention you have a good chance that your phantasms will hit

Edited April 15, 2022 by Urphen.2857

[Smart College Boy.3249]

11 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

3. not sure what do you mean with this

 

I was reading how some classes have a way to steal or strip boons. I wasn't sure if the Chrono continuum was considered a boon that could be stripped if you wait to use it.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[Urphen.2857]

8 minutes ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

 

I was reading how some classes have a way to steal boons. I wasn't sure if the Chrono continuum was considered a boon that could be stripped if you wait to use it.

Ah ok, f4 isn't a boon so it can't be stripped, but you release a rift using continuum split that can be destroyed and forces it to end at that moment.

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Looks like I settled on Virtuoso condi bleed build. because the phantasms only attack once in pvp then turn into clones. That ruined my chrono phantasm build I wanted to try. 

[Urphen.2857]

Phantasms always attacks 1 time and change after that to clones, only with the Chrono trait Chrono Phantasms they can attack twice

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

Looks like I settled on Virtuoso condi bleed build. because the phantasms only attack once in pvp then turn into clones. That ruined my chrono phantasm build I wanted to try. 

If you are going for PvP bleed build is not where you want to go. 

Virtuoso has very linear builds, if you want to play Virtuoso somewhat competitive I suggest you go all the first traits on Virtuoso. Aegis is the only line of defense you really have even then its not great because there are unblockables. In a 1 v 1 situation things like bladesworn completely counters your class.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Smart College Boy.3249]

4 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

In a 1 v 1 situation things like bladesworn completely counters your class.

An exactly which mesmer spec would do best against thieves and rangers? Figured I might as well try the offensive full crit bleed Virtuoso build and mostly use shatters to get a crit for the bleeds. Guess it would work good in zergs. But I plan to run around with a friend or two so you are probably right to focus on the Virtuoso block/evade build. I do know for sure I don't want to rely on clones or worry about mirage constantly needing to build endurance to have evades.

 

[Urphen.2857]

6 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

An exactly which mesmer spec would do best against thieves and rangers? Figured I might as well try the offensive full crit bleed Virtuoso build and mostly use shatters to get a crit for the bleeds. Guess it would work good in zergs. But I plan to run around with a friend or two so you are probably right to focus on the Virtuoso block/evade build. I do know for sure I don't want to rely on clones or worry about mirage constantly needing to build endurance to have evades.

 

Than I would say its better to change the class, I can't count how many times the Virtuoso shatters can be evadet, blocked, sidestepped or even missis thanks of terrain, in wvw zerg even worse thanks to projectile hate like reflects.

For me the best working mesmer spec in spvp/wvw is still Mirage and this says alot about Mesmer as a whole when the nerfed spec brings the best results.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

An exactly which mesmer spec would do best against thieves and rangers? Figured I might as well try the offensive full crit bleed Virtuoso build and mostly use shatters to get a crit for the bleeds. Guess it would work good in zergs. But I plan to run around with a friend or two so you are probably right to focus on the Virtuoso block/evade build. I do know for sure I don't want to rely on clones or worry about mirage constantly needing to build endurance to have evades.

 

Virtuoso is very good at Dueling but It will be hard to land anything related to mesmer against a zerg. What you need to really hurt a zerg and down their members are ground target aoes which mesmer in general doesn't have a whole lot of. 

Virtuoso might still be your best bet since atleast it has some ground targeted utilities but honestly this is where Ranger and Necro tend to excel in WvW.

Its it incredibly tricky and entirely depends on if the zerg you are going up against. Any zerg that fans out will generally be weak against a Mesmer since they have access to many escapes. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

17 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Than I would say its better to change the class, I can't count how many times the Virtuoso shatters can be evadet, blocked, sidestepped or even missis thanks of terrain, in wvw zerg even worse thanks to projectile hate like reflects.

For me the best working mesmer spec in spvp/wvw is still Mirage and this says alot about Mesmer as a whole when the nerfed spec brings the best results.

I agree with this entirely, to add to Uphen point. To be effective as a Virtuoso you will have to rely in your team to CC and lock down targets.

Mirage in general will not have this problem but suffered new issues like the axe being melee or the staff ambush being dead give away that your a squishy Mesmer.

I mean sic em Soulbeast for all the problems with that, has a rapid fire animation that is incredibly hard to disiqush in the zerg between that and any other ranged bow attack. 

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Great, now you guys are scaring me away from Virtuoso....

 

I originally wanted to try mirage but the spec seems so twitchy because you only have a small timeframe to take advantage of mirage cloak and ambush skills. Literally split second timing. Not sure I can handle that consistently in a hectic pvp environment.

 

Anyway, here's another noob mesmer question. For mirage's "infinite horizons" trait, do your illusions cast ambush skills on their own after you mirage cloak? Or do you have to cast your own ambush skills for the illusions to cast theirs?

[Ombras.2853]

Don’t be too scared.

Virtuoso needs several buffs in different areas, but it’s far from the unplayable mess you read on this forum 😄

[Urphen.2857]

2 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

Great, now you guys are scaring me away from Virtuoso....

 

I originally wanted to try mirage but the spec seems so twitchy because you only have a small timeframe to take advantage of mirage cloak and ambush skills. Literally split second timing. Not sure I can handle that consistently in a hectic pvp environment.

 

Anyway, here's another noob mesmer question. For mirage's "infinite horizons" trait, do your illusions cast ambush skills on their own after you mirage cloak? Or do you have to cast your own ambush skills for the illusions to cast theirs?

They use it on their own after evading and even in a hectic fight it isn't that hard to pull out the ambush skills

[Smart College Boy.3249]

9 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

They use it on their own after evading and even in a hectic fight it isn't that hard to pull out the ambush skills

Okay, thanks for that info. Makes it a bit easier to play. I'll stick with mirage and the infinite horizon trait. I'm only level 74 right now so will practice a bit on the training dummies to get a feel. 

 

Now I need to play with the traits to see the best way to balance consistent clone creation, endurance gains, and trying not to be a glass cannon.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

Great, now you guys are scaring me away from Virtuoso....

 

I originally wanted to try mirage but the spec seems so twitchy because you only have a small timeframe to take advantage of mirage cloak and ambush skills. Literally split second timing. Not sure I can handle that consistently in a hectic pvp environment.

Just bring both Virtuoso and Mirage. In small unorganised zergs Mirage is amazing since you overwhelm people perceptions by the share number of clones. 

When the zergs ramps up you then can use Virtuoso and try land some F3 stuns then some of the other Bladesongs on that individual target.

Its tricky, I mostly play Untamed in WvW and I have a super simple rotation (Longbow + Longbow). My job is to just Barrage into a zerg then run away with super speed. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Okay, was playing around with the build editor. I'll have my spec to post tomorrow for analysis. But for now I have another one of those noob questions in reference to the superior runes on armor. I'm looking at the running speed bonuses. Which do you think would be better for a mirage mesmer?

 

1. Superior rune of the zephyrite: It gives a total of 6.75 seconds of super speed when using an elite skill.

2. Superior rune of the traveler: It increases your base running speed to 25%.

 

At first glance the traveler option seems better because it's always there. But with the mirage elite skill jaunt, you can have two uses of your elite skill every 30 seconds. That's 13.5 seconds of super speed every 30 seconds. To me this seems like the better option because my build doesn't really have any counters to being crippled.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[Salt Mode.3780]

From my own experience if you want to duel seriously especially against thieves, I would say Virtuoso is your best shot. 

Having Aegis up prevents thieves from doing many things but you have to make sure your shatter goes off before they go in stealth. Mirage and Chrono will have a tough time vs thieves because Mirage only has 1 dodge and its not hard to bait while chrono has no survival.

One of our biggest counter to thieves was the daze mantra into stun, after that has been removed you have to play perfect to beat a thief. At the end of the day a thief and a mesmer both at equal skill levels thieves will always win sadly. 

[Smart College Boy.3249]

So I kind of settled on a build for my Mesmer that will focus on the infinite horizon trait. The goal is to create clones. And to get the buffs from phantasms (specifically the fury) to transfer to me when the phantasms become clones. The secondary goal is to obviously keep my endurance high enough for cloaking. The phantasms transferring fury to me will help a bit with that and let me use some of my stats for something other than precision. 

 

Ignore the gear on the build. I'm still clueless when it comes to that.

I chose the scepter and sword because both give a lot of defense with the blocks and the scepter also pumps out a lot of clones.

Build Editor - Gw2Skills.Net

Edited April 20, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[godfat.2604]

I have been puzzled if you’re looking for WvW or PvP. Your build is a WvW build, and PvP is using completely separate gears which you can only pick an amulet, a rune, and 4 sigils. You don’t even have armours in PvP. Of course you don’t have food in PvP either.

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Like I said, I'm still learning about armor so ignore that for now.

 

As for the build, it's mostly for wvw. I plan to create an engineer for group pve content. I have a free level 80 boost to use much later for the engineer. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Against thieves best bet is mirage, thieves hardcounter mesmer and a thief will only die if he overcompromises.

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Against thieves best bet is mirage, thieves hardcounter mesmer and a thief will only die if he overcompromises.

Atm Virtuoso is better at countering thieves then Mirage. Mirage losing that one dodge took a huge toll and good thieves can bait and wait out your dodges. The amount of blocks you can spam as a virtuoso is strong just so long as u cast off your shatter before they go in stealth.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

8 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Atm Virtuoso is better at countering thieves then Mirage. Mirage losing that one dodge took a huge toll and good thieves can bait and wait out your dodges. The amount of blocks you can spam as a virtuoso is strong just so long as u cast off your shatter before they go in stealth.

Disagree. 

Aegis isn't worth a kitten against thief since sw3 and swipe are unblockable and steal steals aegis first. You might mitigate some damage with F4 if facing a non s/d thief but that's about it.

With mirage the sustain damage you're outputting is so superior to virt you'll be an actual threat instead of "oh I dodged F1/F2 everything is fine. "