It's late at night so let's make an Untamed rework.

[Beddo.1907]

Feel free to disagree with my ideas, but please explain why and give your own twist if you have any. If something isn't mentioned, it stays as is or I just forgot to include it. The entire rework is meant to be as simple as it can be (so no alternative unleashed pet skills and things like this). 5 ally targets possitive effects also apply to ranger and the pet. Not every change has to make it for the sake of balance.

Minor Traits: 

>Unleashed power- After using the Ambush skill, the Unleash button will get a white outline (like the one on skills that use charges) which shows the recharge CD of Ambush skills.

>Natural Fortitude- Pets will heal for the amount Ranger heals with the Ambush siphon.

>Vow of the Untamed- When Ranger is unleashed deal bonus 20% damage to disabled foes and 1% per condition on the enemy(original 25% damage bonus is removed), when Pet is unleashed effect stays the same (I'd love any ideas to pet effect less bland).

Major Traits:

>Debilitating Blows- Disabling in states will also apply 3s Cripple.

>Nature's Shield- Cantrip boons(the ones based on unleash) and Barrier are also applied to 5 allied targets.

>Blinding Outburst- Ambush skills will also apply 2s blindness (only once per enemy).

>Enhancing Impact- U Ranger will also apply 3s Vigor and U Pet will apply 3s Resolution. Boons from this trait will also apply on 5 ally targets.

>Cleansing Unleash- Now also stunbreaks.

>Corrupting Vines- Ambush skills will also corrupt 2 boons instead or removing them.

>Fervent Force- CD reduction lowered to 3s per disable but now also applies 3s Alacrity to 5 ally targets. 

>Restorative Strikes- Now lifesteal also works on condition damage.

>Ferocious Symbiosis- Now gives 2% damage bonus, 2% damage reduction and 5% speed per stack. If ranger/pet is unleashed, the damage bonus/reduction is increased to 3% per stack.

Hammer:

>No longer has 2 skill versions dependent on unleash state. (Further changes are applied to CC skill set)

>AA chain does 0/1/2% more damage per condition on target.

>Wild Swing- Now also does 1% more damage per condition on target and 10% more damage on disabled targets.

>Overbearing Smash- Follow up strike will also apply 900+100(per target) barrier depending on number of targets hit to 5 ally targets. 

>Savage Shock Wave- 2nd wave removes a boon and 3rd wave corrupts a boon.

>Thump- Range changed to 800 and it's ground targeted.

Cantrips:

>Exploding Spores- Knockdowns when hit by 6 spores, spores appear on pet location too (both ranger and pet spores count towards the knockdown).

>Unnatural Traversal- Can no longer be used in a way that causes ranger to stay in place while casting an aoe, pet will also shadowstep towards the target.

Man that was long. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

Man, an actual extra barrier provider.

 

I do like the concept of a barrier heal DPS, as some DPS healer ideas I've heard throughout the fanbase have been a bit too overtuned. In my mind making a full blown heal DPS could cause some problems (why take boon healers, the remaining boons dps you need, and then dps when you can do it safely with boon healers and heal dps), but since barrier is almost a non-healing heal stat (it does nothing beyond 50% of their max), I think this could actually give untamed something to do in pve without giving ranger all boons (which I don't think is a good idea for any profession, don't like that guardians, mesmers, and engineers can all do it, but ig that's the direction anet wants to go). It's the part of scourge that I really like and wish was expanded upon- it can heal, but its better at cushioning the damage rather than straight up refilling your cup when the boss takes a big slurp (and also turning people into rubber bullets).

 

30k dps, maybe extra alac, and then barrier sounds like a fine team player for pve and something that functions well in pvp. Maybe the pet effect has less damage reduction, however it gives a decrease to CC of all kinds to make the Frontline pvp aspect better?

 

Bug fixes to pet shadowstep and ranger shadowstep are always welcome, or just making the shadowsteps ground target, if only for a time to fix them.

[Mell.4873]

I in general don't want another support elite. We have druid healing and might generation, we also have  Soulbeast stances. 

Please for the love God and all thing decent can Ranger get a damage spec that isn't half a support. I mean Soulbeast is strong but only becouse it removed core mechanics in favor of Command utilities being self buffs. 

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Feel free to disagree with my ideas, but please explain why and give your own twist if you have any. If something isn't mentioned, it stays as is or I just forgot to include it. The entire rework is meant to be as simple as it can be (so no alternative unleashed pet skills and things like this). 5 ally targets possitive effects also apply to ranger and the pet. Not every change has to make it for the sake of balance.

Minor Traits: 

>Unleashed power- After using the Ambush skill, the Unleash button will get a white outline (like the one on skills that use charges) which shows the recharge CD of Ambush skills.

>Natural Fortitude- Pets will heal for the amount Ranger heals with the Ambush siphon.

>Vow of the Untamed- When Ranger is unleashed deal bonus 20% damage to disabled foes and 1% per condition on the enemy(original 25% damage bonus is removed), when Pet is unleashed effect stays the same (I'd love any ideas to pet effect less bland).

Major Traits:

>Debilitating Blows- Disabling in states will also apply 3s Cripple.

>Nature's Shield- Cantrip boons(the ones based on unleash) and Barrier are also applied to 5 allied targets.

>Blinding Outburst- Ambush skills will also apply 2s blindness (only once per enemy).

>Enhancing Impact- U Ranger will also apply 3s Vigor and U Pet will apply 3s Resolution. Boons from this trait will also apply on 5 ally targets.

>Cleansing Unleash- Now also stunbreaks.

>Corrupting Vines- Ambush skills will also corrupt 2 boons instead or removing them.

>Fervent Force- CD reduction lowered to 3s per disable but now also applies 3s Alacrity to 5 ally targets. 

>Restorative Strikes- Now lifesteal also works on condition damage.

>Ferocious Symbiosis- Now gives 2% damage bonus, 2% damage reduction and 5% speed per stack. If ranger/pet is unleashed, the damage bonus/reduction is increased to 3% per stack.

Hammer:

>No longer has 2 skill versions dependent on unleash state. (Further changes are applied to CC skill set)

>AA chain does 0/1/2% more damage per condition on target.

>Wild Swing- Now also does 1% more damage per condition on target and 10% more damage on disabled targets.

>Overbearing Smash- Follow up strike will also apply 900+100(per target) barrier depending on number of targets hit to 5 ally targets. 

>Savage Shock Wave- 2nd wave removes a boon and 3rd wave corrupts a boon.

>Thump- Range changed to 800 and it's ground targeted.

Cantrips:

>Exploding Spores- Knockdowns when hit by 6 spores, spores appear on pet location too (both ranger and pet spores count towards the knockdown).

>Unnatural Traversal- Can no longer be used in a way that causes ranger to stay in place while casting an aoe, pet will also shadowstep towards the target.

Man that was long. 

I love most of you suggestion except the 5 player barrier generation. 

I think adding more effects to each ambush and trait is a really good idea so it can be used to preform multiple roles. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I love most of you suggestion except the 5 player barrier generation. 

I think adding more effects to each ambush and trait is a really good idea so it can be used to preform multiple roles. 

Why is the barrier bad? It actually gives a team play aspect to untamed. It won't be full support, since unless you're running healing power the barrier will be small, and it'll have alacrity so you can easily run a diviners boon DPS.

 

Contrary to popular belief, soulbeast isn't that great of a boon support like some people on the forums seem to think. It's pretty off meta and niche when it works, not sure about the success in wvw where I've heard its more common. Sure, you have stances, but that hardly makes it a supportive spec.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Why is the barrier bad? It actually gives a team play aspect to untamed. It won't be full support, since unless you're running healing power the barrier will be small, and it'll have alacrity so you can easily run a diviners boon DPS.

 

Contrary to popular belief, soulbeast isn't that great of a boon support like some people on the forums seem to think. It's pretty off meta and niche when it works, not sure about the success in wvw where I've heard its more common. Sure, you have stances, but that hardly makes it a supportive spec.

I agree but I'm basing my opinion on next update which will see spirits pulse alacrity.

This would mean a double up if Untamed kit also provided alacrity. That and it would be redundant since druid would be the best alacrity provider since it could realistically top up spirits, while Soulbeast moa stance would let you boon your boon duration by 66% percent for a short duration while spirits are still alive. 

Untamed needs damage otherwise it will be left further behind. 

[Kaenaydar.5631]

2handed perk for beastmaster needs to add hammer to that as well. I use Marksman Beastmaster and Untamed set up main focus on longbow. Then i go hammer if i have to fight in close range. Also skills really need to be faster for hammer so when people eye dps it can be viable.

I am also dying on this hill bring back pets auto cast skills. Sometimes in fractals strikes and raids. Too much is going on to order pet to use its high damage skills. Simplicity isnt a bad thing sometimes.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Lazze.9870]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:00 AM, Mell.4873 said:

I mean Soulbeast is strong but only becouse it removed core mechanics in favor of Command utilities being self buffs. 

First of all, doesn't remove anything other than pet swap.

Second of all, it has nothing to do with command utilites. Soulbeast still does far better dps simply from gaining the extra stats and also benefiting from traits that would otherwise benefit the pet, with our without sic em.

Categorizing soulbeast as anything close to support simply because the stances can be shared at a reduced rate from a trait that also benefit yourself is ridiculous. Soulbeast is by most merits a very pure dps spec with a couple of defensive trait options in the top line.

And finally, Untamed is never gonna be a pure dps spec.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Duglaive.5236]

4 hours ago, Kaenaydar.5631 said:

2handed perk for beastmaster needs to add hammer to that as well. I use Marksman Beastmaster and Untamed set up main focus on longbow. Then i go hammer if i have to fight in close range. Also skills really need to be faster for hammer so when people eye dps it can be viable.

I am also dying on this hill bring back pets auto cast skills. Sometimes in fractals strikes and raids. Too much is going on to order pet to use its high damage skills. Simplicity isnt a bad thing sometimes.

 

As to the first part, I think hammer is, uh ... Yeah, using greatsword is working for me until such time - if ever - hammer is reworked.

 

Now the second part, YES! At least let the things auto-attack. Something.

[myun.6395]

I'm playing only spvp so I can comment on that only for now.

 

I would like to have the F2 of the unleashed pet at least different for every pet.

The F1 teleport and F3 projectile denial are fine as they are.

Ambush skills are cool, only the sword one is underwhelming, make it a leap maybe.

 

I would like a completely hammer rework, it's a fun weapon, but so clunky when all skills are changing. I know it's l2p issue, but so often I thinj I'm stunning or dazing someone out of muscle memory and instead I'm in the wrong unleashed and I do nothing and lose because of that.

They should add to it at least 1 evade frame or block. Leave the 5 as a knockdown leap with slow cast time, 4 as a block. 2 and 3 as dps skills against disables foes or something.

[wolfyrik.2017]

Untamed should be reworked into a reverse Soulbeast. F5 is still merge/unmerge. When merged you have core stats but access to beastmastery benefits. You don't get the pet stats though. Nor do you get the pet's core skills or the Slb merge skills such as Worldy Impact. All of that is gone. When merged you do get the access to the three skills which are presently pet unleashed but modified to suit the new system. This gives you two options press f1 to immediatly teleport the pet to the target, forcing unmerge or unmerging by the standard f5.

 

When unmerged, the f1 Attack my Target gains the pet shadowstep, but on cooldown, say 5 - 10 seconds. The pet's power is out of control, it recovers some of the ferocity of untamed beasts and it's bond with you becomes almost parasitic, it's strips strength from you, devouring your magic to power itself. In other words, you lose some of your stats, a percentage of perhaps (?) and the pet increases it's own becoming visibly larger and faster, stacking with beastmastery. It keeps full control of it's main attacks, unlike present Untamed but you get control over the more powerful skills on f2/f3. This would shift the dynamic of soulbeast, making Merged less favorable but still more interesting than simply petless but should shift the unmerged focus to the pet in a similar way to the Mechanist. It give an excuse for the micromanagement which makes sense and makes it less onerous, buffs the pet siginificantly and is paid for by personal stats. It could even keep the pet swap tho I would prefer it be part of the trade-off.

 

Of course this would all be too much work but I can dream.