A REAL legendary armor

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Erise.5614 said:

It is very easily accessible. Not quickly, not cheaply. But easily. Without getting a single gift of anything.

You can just buy G1 and G3 legendary weapons off of TP with gold.

And what about gen 2? And what about if I want to craft them? Just admit that you were not telling the truth. 

[Erise.5614]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

And what about gen 2? And what about if I want to craft them? Just admit that you were not telling the truth. 

No one is asking to make all armor skins accessible to OW. The topic is about access to legendary armor.

Skins are and have always been fine to lock behind certain content. Gen2 are just a set of OW exclusive skins. Not more. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

15 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The topic is about access to legendary armor.

Everyone who wants has access to legendary armor. The game offers three ways to get it. 
By your twisted logic the legendary raid armor is accessible to OW players: they can just buy raid clears. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

Everyone who wants has access to legendary armor. The game offers three ways to get it. 
By your twisted logic the legendary raid armor is accessible to OW players: they can just buy raid clears. 

That's not an argument against a fourth method of acquisition.

The game offers three ways in three types of content (PvP, WvW, Instanced) that are collectively less popular than the fourth (OW). 

Raid selling is so close to being a rule violation you aren't allowed to advertise it as selling the armor. You may only sell a spot in a group. Which will cost you about 8k for one set of armor. Comparing that to buying a weapon for 1.5k from TP is utterly ridiculous. Method of acquisition, how legitimate it is in the eyes of ANet and price are so far removed from one another it's not even comparable. 

It very obviously needed quite a lot of twisting on your end to arrive at this cheap "gotcha" point. The comment is just petty. Without any arguments or substance but trying real hard to make fun of people who have a different opinion. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

That's not an argument against a fourth method of acquisition.

It’s about accessibility, right? Three ways to get legendary armor seems quite accessible to me. A fourth way, especially for a group that doesn’t need legendary armor and most likely will not care about it, seems to be a waste of resources. 

[Erise.5614]

7 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

It’s about accessibility, right? Three ways to get legendary armor seems quite accessible to me. A fourth way, especially for a group that doesn’t need legendary armor and most likely will not care about it, seems to be a waste of resources. 

You purposefully misunderstand the point about accessibility so you don't have to respond about any actual arguments.

OW benefits more from legendary armor than PvP. We already have numbers on gw2 efficiency that very clearly suggest that armor is the least popular category of legendary content. Heavily implying that a lot of people would care about alternative acquisition methods. 

Waste of ANet resources is the first legitimate concern I have seen in your comments. Which is a valid point. It's hard to tell from the outside and if that is the reason ANet doesn't implement it then fair enough. 

Just to clarify though, your only concern about OW armor is that no one would do it and it would waste time? So if there is internal data at ANet suggesting it would be popular you'd support the implementation? Or do you oppose the implementation for other reasons as well? 

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

 

OW benefits more from legendary armor than PvP. We already have numbers on gw2 efficiency that very clearly suggest that armor is the least popular category of legendary content. Heavily implying that a lot of people would care about alternative acquisition methods. 

 

Or maybe these numbers show that a lot of players don’t care about legendary armor and don’t see it as necessary. 

[disco.9302]

36 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The game offers three ways in three types of content (PvP, WvW, Instanced)

plenty of people have pointed out that you can't complete the raid set without doing open world content (chak eggs, reclaimed plate, etc) so there's no point trying to falsely label it as "instanced" when everyone knows it involves more than just raids. Once again you are trying to  conveniently omit information to make your argument sound viable.

 

36 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Which will cost you about 8k for one set of armor. Comparing that to buying a weapon for 1.5k from TP is utterly ridiculous. Method of acquisition, how legitimate it is in the eyes of ANet and price are so far removed from one another it's not even comparable. 

Cheapest legendary wep is 1.9k, not 1.5 as you are pretending it is. The most expensive currently is 4.9k which of course you're going to ignore as it doesn't support your argument.

Legendary armour fills 6 slots so at 8k per set (as you claim, since I don't know the prices) you are actually only paying 1.33k (per piece) which is in fact cheaper than the cheapest legendary weapon. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by disco.9302
edit

[Ryuk.6840]

10 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

plenty of people have pointed out that you can't complete the raid set without doing open world content (chak eggs, reclaimed plate, etc) so there's no point trying to falsely label it as "instanced" when everyone knows it involves more than just raids. Once again you are trying to  conveniently omit information to make your argument sound viable.

 

If half the process is already in OW , couldn't we replace the raid part with something else ?

[Erise.5614]

39 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Or maybe these numbers show that a lot of players don’t care about legendary armor and don’t see it as necessary. 

So, just to clarify. Your only concern is popularity? And if ANet had data clearly showing that it would be a very popular grind you would support such an implementation?

Or do you have other concerns, other reasons to oppose the suggestion? 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Ah yes, as opposed to getting your armor via Raids, PvP or WvW which are, of course, huge swaths of the game that are updated regularly and demonstrate true mastery of the entirety of GW2.

This, of course, is sarcasm as 2 of the 3 can be farmed out over time even if you're terrible at the mode and all 3 are comparatively small, neglected corners of the game. Are you understanding the strangeness of your argument?

My friend.  There's nothing in the PvE aspect of this game that a player can't beat if they're actually good enough to participate in even partial  raid clears.

The amount of players who got their PvP and/or WvW legendary armor by leeching and never getting any better at either mode are also likely to be even less than the players who still have hope for another raid wing/WvW/PvP update soon™.

[yoni.7015]

8 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

So, just to clarify. Your only concern is popularity? And if ANet had data clearly showing that it would be a very popular grind you would support such an implementation?

Or do you have other concerns, other reasons to oppose the suggestion? 

I have other reasons. I don’t think Open World is challenging enough to justify legendary armor. Every time there is something slightly challenging in Open World, you and others keep complaining until it gets nerfed and all challenge is gone. 
 In my opinion it is not a game mode on its own like WvW or PvP. It’s part of PvE and there already is a PvE set, for which you have to play raids and Open World. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

33 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

plenty of people have pointed out that you can't complete the raid set without doing open world content (chak eggs, reclaimed plate, etc) so there's no point trying to falsely label it as "instanced" when everyone knows it involves more than just raids. Once again you are trying to  conveniently omit information to make your argument sound viable.

All other necessary mats have secondary acquisition methods. Whether it be WvW/PvP, home instance farming, festival vendors or otherwise.

Nothing in raid armor is locked exclusively behind OW. If the same was true for LI / envoy armor. Offering it in content other than hardcore instanced content. Then it would be fine. 

38 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

Cheapest legendary wep is 1.9k, not 1.5 as you are pretending it is. The most expensive currently is 4.9k which of course you're going to ignore as it doesn't support your argument.

4.9k is a prestige one that is made by combining two legendries with more materials. It's a special skin. The most expensive one with the value that's not driven up by a new mat is 2.3k. 1.9k is the cheapest instant buy price currently available. But within the past 4 months several legendries have been bought for 1.5k-1.6k.

50 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

Legendary armour fills 6 slots so at 8k per set (as you claim, since I don't know the prices) you are actually only paying 1.33k (per piece) which is in fact cheaper than the cheapest legendary weapon. 

And more than 3 times more expensive than idling in WvW. Legendary armor prices are set at around 2k. 
Raid sellers on the low end will cost you ~6k and, again, if they even suggest they are selling anything but a spot in their group it's against the terms.

Trading outside of the TP is not benefitting the economy, undermining the system of end game players paying newer players for their mats. While also being extremely vulnerable to scams. Even if you pay 50k there is no guarantee you'll ever get armor because of that. 

Suggesting this as valid option that's equal to buying a weapon off of TP is intellectually dishonest. 

[Erise.5614]

30 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I have other reasons. I don’t think Open World is challenging enough to justify legendary armor. Every time there is something slightly challenging in Open World, you and others keep complaining until it gets nerfed and all challenge is gone. 
 In my opinion it is not a game mode on its own like WvW or PvP. It’s part of PvE and there already is a PvE set, for which you have to play raids and Open World. 

Why is there anything to justify? Why is it important to the game to only give that content out through challenge?

Why is raids all there is to PvE? (As you don't have to play OW, alternative methods of acquisition exist for all materials except LI).

I mean those as honest questions. I can imagine several kinds of answers. But am genuinely curious about your opinion. Why is that good for the game and it's community? 

And what's your opinion on WvW & PvP then? There's literally no way to make it less challenging to get the armor. Are they fine? Do those acquisition methods need overhauls as well? 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

9 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Why is there anything to justify? Why is it important to the game to only give that content out through challenge?

Why is raids all there is to PvE?

And what's your opinion on WvW & PvP then? There's literally no way to make it less challenging to get the armor. Are they fine? Do those acquisition methods need overhauls as well? 

Because it is a legendary armor. You can get every other armor without effort. I mean ascended armor is thrown after you, half of my bank is full with ascended armor and weapon boxes. 
No there is more in PvE than raids, for the armor you have to play open world as well. 
I got my first armor set in PvP, my second and third in WvW, it was more challenging than anything in Open World. Unlike Open World, PvP and WvW are game modes, open world is just the non challenging part of PvE. Hardly the right place for legendary armor. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

21 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Because it is a legendary armor. You can get every other armor without effort. I mean ascended armor is thrown after you, half of my bank is full with ascended armor and weapon boxes. 

The argument "because of how I interpret the name" is not a particularly strong one.

I mean, yes. It is exactly for that situation of having plenty of ascended items where legendary items slot in and offer continued progression despite GW2 not having actual stat progression. Though, just to mention that as well. You only have that experience if you are raiding or playing fractal CMs regularly. Besides profession collections that's the only place you really get ascended drops. 

For people who didn't play that content, the cost of getting in a similar situation is quite significant indeed. Quite a lot of effort, quite a lot of mats, quite a lot of time spent playing. 

Legendary armor can make for a fantastic next step in the progression path for such players. But at this point in time, it very, very obviously is not that. 

21 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

No there is more in PvE than raids, for the armor you have to play open world as well. 

You do not need to play OW for legendary armor. Or to be more precise. It depends a little on how you interpret guild missions. But considering there are WvW options for that too I do feel confident in the claim.

All mats can be acquired without ever playing OW content. It's not easy, you can't always get all mats right away and it's a bit more expensive. But if a similar thing was true for the envoy collection and LI, I wouldn't be asking for an alternative acquisition method. 

21 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I got my first armor set in PvP, my second and third in WvW, it was more challenging than anything in Open World. Unlike Open World, PvP and WvW are game modes. 

How? There is 0 requirements on acquisition besides avoiding anti-AFK / anti-inactivity systems.

You can try to improve and go hard. At which point it is going to be very demanding and challenging. But that has nothing to do with the armor. You get everything necessary regardless of how you play.

It is quite literally a participation trophy. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

19 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

 

How? There is 0 requirements on acquisition besides avoiding anti-AFK / anti-inactivity systems.

You can try to improve and go hard. At which point it is going to be very demanding and challenging. But that has nothing to do with the armor. You get everything necessary regardless of how you play.

It is quite literally a participation trophy. 

How many legendary armor sets did you get from playing PvP and WvW? 

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

How many legendary armor sets did you get from playing PvP and WvW? 

Are you seriously trying to claim WvW or PvP armor require anything but continued participation?^^

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

Are you seriously trying to claim WvW or PvP armor require anything but continued participation?^^

Which still seem to be to much effort.^^

Edited April 28, 2022 by Albi.7250

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Erise.5614 said:

Are you seriously trying to claim WvW or PvP armor require anything but continued participation?^^

This doesn’t answer my question. How many? 
It is continued participation, but playing these  game modes is more than just standing there afk. No one really plays like that. So how many legendary armor sets did you get from playing PvP and WvW? 

[Erise.5614]

10 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

This doesn’t answer my question. How many? 
It is continued participation, but playing these  game modes is more than just standing there afk. No one really plays like that. So how many legendary armor sets did you get from playing PvP and WvW? 

The reason I point this out is because some people bring that up as argument for how easy it is and why there is no need for an alternative. As our dear Albi demonstrated just above your comment.

My point is that challenge is not a relevant factor when it comes to armor acquisition. It's not part of the design. Meaning the claim that legendary armor is about challenge is a flawed interpretation that very obviously does not hold up to the reality of the design. 

And since it is possible, I assure you players do do that. Obviously I don't have a set. We both know that. I almost have a piece of WvW armor playing like that though. As I don't enjoy zergs, don't enjoy PvP in general and try to exclude myself from the meat of WvW content as much as possible. So I primarily do easy dailies and reflag camps back and forth every now and then when my daily routine is finished and I am farming my next legendary with need for memories to reduce the price a little. Because I do enjoy farming everything necessary myself. I don't even buy wood or ore at TP because I like the feeling of truly having farmed everything myself. And rather run around logging and mining stuff in low level areas than simply use my gold on it. But can't bring myself to fully commit to the rather mind numbing experience of grinding WvW. Avoiding the things I don't like makes it a drastically less engaging experience than Silverwastes or Drizzlewood. Which is quite an achievement, albeit not a positive one. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[AgentMoore.9453]

7 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

This doesn’t answer my question. How many? 

Your question isn't relevant. You're asking about a person in a conversation, not about the subject of the conversation, and so it doesn't matter if Erise has made 0 legendary items or 1,000 legendary items because you can have accurate knowledge of the topic either way. Trying to disqualify posters from weighing in is not very sporting.

11 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

No one really plays like that.

You'd be surprised by the number of people who do and how normal a strategy it is. I know plenty of players who play exactly like this because they don't enjoy WvW, but recognize it as a passive grind toward legendary armor. For them, the process is taking forever and it isn't fun - and this is why you have people who want OW armor. They don't mind putting in time or effort, they'd just rather have fun while doing so.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Your question isn't relevant. You're asking about a person in a conversation, not about the subject of the conversation, and so it doesn't matter if Erise has made 0 legendary items or 1,000 legendary items because you can have accurate knowledge of the topic either way. Trying to disqualify posters from weighing in is not very sporting.

You'd be surprised by the number of people who do and how normal a strategy it is. I know plenty of players who play exactly like this because they don't enjoy WvW, but recognize it as a passive grind toward legendary armor. For them, the process is taking forever and it isn't fun - and this is why you have people who want OW armor. They don't mind putting in time or effort, they'd just rather have fun while doing so.

Then please name a number. I spend time in WvW almost every day and this behavior is not very common. In fact, most people play WvW because they like it. 
“I know people” is hardly a substantial argument. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by yoni.7015

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Surprise, surprise! Your entire point was just designed to follow it up with a personal attack! 

Yet again. No substance. No arguments. Just being offensive for no reason. 

Pointing out that it’s just your bias against WvW and PvP speaking is not a personal attack. Stop trying to portray people who disagree with you as bad people 

[Erise.5614]

5 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Then please name a number. I spend time in WvW almost every day and this behavior is not very common. In fact, most people play WvW because they like it. 
“I know people” is hardly a substantial argument. 

 

It would be much appreciated if you could share with us the true number!  As someone who plays almost every day and is extremely experienced you must know the precise statistics much better than us! I'd be most interested in the data used to arrive at the number, but the number itself would be an interesting starting point! 

Same with your claim that most people play WvW because they like it! Real interested in the numbers behind that claim! 

"I don't see it often" is hardly a substantial argument.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614