[Poll] Remove Ranked Queue from PvP

[Locuz.2651]

You forgot a 3rd option "remove unranked".

I think the main issue is unranked. Unranked games are a cesspit of toxic behaviour due to the insane difference in skill. You will find beginners and top 50 players in the same games. 

Whenever i try a new build and try unrated its always the same kitten:

- 2-3 times as much afkers. Half of the team afk after the first death or wipe pretty much happens every other game. 

- Far more flaming and troling. Ppl dont care as much about winning in unrated. Its more about bored individuals trying to trigger others.  

- Top 100 players that play their main builds purely to kitten on / teabag new guys.  Reading a conversation between a self proclaimed first timer get kitten talked by some "x of the arena"gets old is super common.

New players get this horrible idea of what the community is with some of the worst examples this community has the offer. 

It would be far better to have only rated games (starting at pvp rank/level 1) where new/relatively bad players are seperated from mid to top tier guys.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by Locuz.2651

[Shaogin.2679]

On 5/25/2022 at 6:23 PM, Locuz.2651 said:

You forgot a 3rd option "remove unranked".

I think the main issue is unranked. Unranked games are a cesspit of toxic behaviour due to the insane difference in skill. You will find beginners and top 50 players in the same games. 

Whenever i try a new build and try unrated its always the same kitten:

- 2-3 times as much afkers. Half of the team afk after the first death or wipe pretty much happens every other game. 

- Far more flaming and troling. Ppl dont care as much about winning in unrated. Its more about bored individuals trying to trigger others.  

- Top 100 players that play their main builds purely to kitten on / teabag new guys.  Reading a conversation between a self proclaimed first timer get kitten talked by some "x of the arena"gets old is super common.

New players get this horrible idea of what the community is with some of the worst examples this community has the offer. 

It would be far better to have only rated games (starting at pvp rank/level 1) where new/relatively bad players are seperated from mid to top tier guys.  

This is precisely why I recommend having the current ranked match making system moved to unranked but just hidden from view. The current Ranked queue is in no way any less toxic. Toxicity will always exist in an environment where you are not choosing your own teammates. The only reason these toxic players can act the way they do is because there are no consequences. No matter what they do, they can queue up again and Anet will will force some unlucky group to team up with this toxic player. Currently in Unranked you can queue up with groups of any size, and they have this nice feature where if you enjoy playing with your random team, you can group up and keep playing together. It really is a nice system, it just requires people to actually use it. 

 

The issue with Ranked though is that there is no option to team up with other players, giving you no option at all to prevent toxic players from ruining your match. However, in Ranked, ruining your match also means ruining your rating, which adds another level of toxicity. As for being a competitive environment, it is not even good at that. It places a ranking on an individual in a 5v5 team matchup. While this is not completely ridiculous in an environment where rules are better enforced, it is quite silly here. Between queue dodging, match manipulation, bots, afk players, and trolls, it just isn't an environment conducive to competitive ranked gameplay. This is why ATs are such a better place for this. 

 

Unranked should remain as a place for casual games and, with a match maker system, would end up being a better introduction to PvP and a way to transition into doing ATs.

[Locuz.2651]

The community voted against this...and for good reason. 

We used to have team queue as the main competetive thing in GW2. It litteraly had like 3-4 serious teams in eu .... the rest was all random general chat and PvE groups. It was as dead as can be. 15-20 mins of waiting time and queueing in to the same teams 6-7 times in a row. 

During off hours the queue was dead. Noone was there.

There is a massive difference in toxicity between unranked and ranked. esp if your gold or higher. 

- In unranked every single game there are at least 2-3 afkers who are there to leech their dailies. 

- In unranked there is always toxic chat, without exception...where in ranked more ppl stay possitive or silent since they want to win. And spamming chat doenst lead to a win.  Doesnt mean it never happens in rated ... but its less common. 

- Some ppl incl me want to play ranked solo. The hassle of getting a (good) team together is comparable to wow arena or worse RBG. The season (people) starts out active...and then it dies out.  This leads to me spending half of my game time (or more) looking for (good) teammates to fill out a roster. Not even going to start about off hour games etc.  

Doing this will lead to a massive exodus of the remaining pvp players. Ppl who just want to click and play a rated game within 5 mins of pressing the play button.   

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Locuz.2651

[Shaogin.2679]

9 hours ago, Locuz.2651 said:

The community voted against this...and for good reason. 

We used to have team queue as the main competetive thing in GW2. It litteraly had like 3-4 serious teams in eu .... the rest was all random general chat and PvE groups. It was as dead as can be. 15-20 mins of waiting time and queueing in to the same teams 6-7 times in a row. 

During off hours the queue was dead. Noone was there.

There is a massive difference in toxicity between unranked and ranked. esp if your gold or higher. 

- In unranked every single game there are at least 2-3 afkers who are there to leech their dailies. 

- In unranked there is always toxic chat, without exception...where in ranked more ppl stay possitive or silent since they want to win. And spamming chat doenst lead to a win.  Doesnt mean it never happens in rated ... but its less common. 

- Some ppl incl me want to play ranked solo. The hassle of getting a (good) team together is comparable to wow arena or worse RBG. The season (people) starts out active...and then it dies out.  This leads to me spending half of my game time (or more) looking for (good) teammates to fill out a roster. Not even going to start about off hour games etc.  

Doing this will lead to a massive exodus of the remaining pvp players. Ppl who just want to click and play a rated game within 5 mins of pressing the play button.   

 

 

 

I've played PvP since this game released, and I definitely do not see this huge increase of toxicity in Unranked vs Ranked that you say exists. But again, I proposed moving the match maker to Unranked and giving it a solo queue option, so that would be the place to queue up for solo quick matches. 

 

As for the reason team queue was removed, again, I was there and we have very different recollections of that period but whatever. If you ever put it up to the community to remove team queue from literally anything in this game, these people will vote for it. GW2 has the most super casual player base of any game I have ever played, and they will vehemently reject and complain about anything in this game that requires them to put in the slightest bit of effort to play with others. 

 

But for those of us wanting actual competitive gameplay, ATs are the only thing that exists, and it would be nice to be able to play that game mode a bit more often than once every 6 hours.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Shaogin.2679

[DoomNexus.5324]

I've voted 'No' because I think ranked queue is important but I wouldn't agree with "keep things as they are" either.
If I could change something regarding unranked/ranked I'd actually just enable pip progression for unranked and allow full team queue for ranked (as a separate queue) again, that's it.
So if someone just wants to get the league rewards they can do it in unranked and not bother ranked teams.

I wouldn't merge them into either one because I think ranked is important to at least somewhat balance the teams in terms of skill rating and unranked is important for just testing builds/classes imho.

[Shaogin.2679]

3 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I wouldn't merge them into either one because I think ranked is important to at least somewhat balance the teams in terms of skill rating and unranked is important for just testing builds/classes imho.

But you could do both in the new Unranked mode I proposed. It would balance the teams based on skill, and would still be a great place to test builds since their is nothing really at stake. 

[Tycura.1982]

Split ranked into 1 man que ranked and 5 man team ques ezpz

[Shaogin.2679]

9 hours ago, Tycura.1982 said:

Split ranked into 1 man que ranked and 5 man team ques ezpz

This is the equivalent of asking for solo queue only due to population, and I feel like the people asking for this know this.

Not to mention this will literally solve none of current issues in Ranked.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Shaogin.2679

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

This is the equivalent of asking for solo queue only due to population, and I feel like the people asking for this know this.

Is that not at all telling? If that's what people want, then that's what people want.

What is the point of a poll otherwise? You could just as easily give your ideas without asking people for their opinions on what they want. Especially pointless if you already know how the majority of people feel.

And its made utterly devoid of any meaning if you inject your own bias into the poll options. "No, keep things as they are."

How about instead: "No, I would like to see some changes to the gamemode instead of deleting it outright." ?

2 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Not to mention this will literally solve none of current issues in Ranked.

It depends on what you consider an issue. 

If one were to consider DuoQ and people misusing that to game the matchmaker an issue, then that would be a problem solved. 👍

 

I say this with the utmost respect, but your solution doesn't seem any better. Its not even really a solution at all.

Straight up deleting ranked is basically giving up. It's saying "yeah, this is broken and unfixable. Just delete it." Giving up is not a solution. Giving up is giving up.

 

It solves absolutely nothing. It isn't going to magically attract more players to ATs because forced social interaction is awkward and widely unappealing.

It isn't going to increase the population because Ranked; as it is, is probably the most populated gamemode when compared to ATs/Unranked because of its accessibility as a slightly less casual mode. If anything, deleting it would only decrease the population further because people who play things and enjoy things don't like having things taken away. Especially in sPvP, a game that is already starved for content. The most reasonable thing for them to do in that case would be to quit PvP entirely.

[Shaogin.2679]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Is that not at all telling? If that's what people want, then that's what people want.

What is the point of a poll otherwise? You could just as easily give your ideas without asking people for their opinions on what they want. Especially pointless if you already know how the majority of people feel.

I'm aware that people hate teaming up. My issue with doing nothing but making Ranked solo queue only is it takes away the last bit of team play left remaining in the game mode. The match maker and rewards are exclusive to Ranked queue currently. I know the majority of GW2 players, and I don't mean this offensively, are pretty casual solo players. The issue I have when people suggest removing options for team play is simple, I like playing mmo games because I can play with friends. When I log into the game to hang out with guildies, Ranked PvP is not an option for us because only two can play at a time. We could do Unranked, but then we can't work on getting any of the Ranked rewards and have to play with no match making system. The solution of making Ranked a solo queue only mode only benefits part of the player base while alienating the rest. This is why I suggested basically consolidating Ranked and Unranked into a single game mode with a solo queue and mixed queue. While this doesn't solve every issue, it does at least remove some of the problems by consolidating the player base, letting players play against opponents of similar skill in Unranked (which is big considering this is where new players start), and removing the need to game the system due to removing the leader board. 

 

Solo queue in the new Unranked will still have issues with toxic players. Solo queue in general will always have issues with toxic players. There is no way around that. The only way for toxic players to find teammates is for Anet to literally force them on your team. But that is the price you pay for solo queue, and if that is a tradeoff you are willing to make then the option is there, and if not then the mix/team queue is there. 

5 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

How about instead: "No, I would like to see some changes to the gamemode instead of deleting it outright." ?

Mainly because I was interested in the proposed changes vs the status quo.

 

5 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I say this with the utmost respect, but your solution doesn't seem any better. Its not even really a solution at all.

Straight up deleting ranked is basically giving up. It's saying "yeah, this is broken and unfixable. Just delete it." Giving up is not a solution. Giving up is giving up.

 

It solves absolutely nothing. It isn't going to magically attract more players to ATs because forced social interaction is awkward and widely unappealing.

It isn't giving up, it is removing the problem. Rating a solo player in an easily abused 5v5 team mode has not been working. It is essentially just a random queue with a leader board. I mean hell, when I play I can be anywhere from Silver 3 to Plat 2. It is chaotic and most matches are one sided blowouts. The population has dwindled so much that Gold Ranked players are easily top 250. Players of a wide margin of ranks are thrown in matches together, which leads to trolling and rage quitting and newer players being berated for not being as good as the more experienced players they were forced into a match with. With rating and pips at stake, it just adds fuel to the fire for raging players. Meanwhile, the best way to actually get pips and rating, is to game the system by only playing during off-peak hours and que dodging anyone that might actually put up a balanced fight. Sure, removing duo queue might make it slightly more difficult to exploit the system, but it will in no way stop it.

 

The changes I suggested have a single downside, and that is no more leader board. Meanwhile, Ranked and Unranked player population gets merged into one. From that single population, players could choose pure solo queue, or mixed queue. If everyone chooses pure solo queue, so be it, you can't force people to do what you want. But if people want to avoid toxic teammates or play with friends, the option will be there. And no one will need to worry about their rating on a leaderboard or trying to farm pips before the season ends. It would be PvP for the enjoyment of PvP, plus of course the reward track loot.

 

Also, I don't see all of this as a way to force players into ATs, but it would be an actually stepping stone. Right now, if you want to practice as a team, private matches is your only option. Unranked is mostly a gank fest without the match maker being there. With the proposed Unranked though, again, match maker would be in effect, the option to team up is there, and you can practice without the stress of losing rating on the leader board or anything of the sort.

 

So unless a meaningless leader board is the only thing in the game motivating people to play Ranked, I honestly do not see the issue here. This is the part I am confused on. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

I know the majority of GW2 players, and I don't mean this offensively, are pretty casual solo players. The issue I have when people suggest removing options for team play is simple, I like playing mmo games because I can play with friends.

That's a fair concern, but with a split queue you would still have that option. 

What would be unfair is slighting everyone else because you think(probably rightly so) that nobody would play the team's option if the queues were split between teams and solos.

If given the option and people still don't play in teams, then that's honestly just tough luck on your end. That's not justification to delete Ranked entirely because you don't get what you want. 

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

The match maker and rewards are exclusive to Ranked queue currently.

Like this for example, this is something that could change without deleting Ranked. Those rewards could just as easily be universal across all PvP gamemodes; Ranked, Unranked, and ATs.

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

When I log into the game to hang out with guildies, Ranked PvP is not an option for us because only two can play at a time.

This too is something that could change with splitting the queues rather than deleting the entire gamemode.

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

We could do Unranked, but then we can't work on getting any of the Ranked rewards and have to play with no match making system. The solution of making Ranked a solo queue only mode only benefits part of the player base while alienating the rest. This is why I suggested basically consolidating Ranked and Unranked into a single game mode with a solo queue and mixed queue. While this doesn't solve every issue, it does at least remove some of the problems by consolidating the player base, letting players play against opponents of similar skill in Unranked (which is big considering this is where new players start), and removing the need to game the system due to removing the leader board. 

That alienates SoloQ players though. The leaderboard is a big draw for SoloQ players because most the people SoloQing do so to test their individual skill and to see where they can place against people doing the same.

Consolidating everything into Unranked would essentially make SoloQ no good for anything but farming rewards and dailies. There would still be no competitive SoloQ option, which is the main thing a lot of us want to begin with.

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Rating a solo player in an easily abused 5v5 team mode has not been working.

It works when everyone plays at the same advantage. Seasons 9-12 were proof of that. It doesn't now because DuoQ and SoloQ are merged and DuoQ plays with an objective and distinct advantage to SoloQs due to the low overall population and the lack of restrictions on DuoQ that you would find in other competitive arena games.

The #1 ranked player on the leaderboard can queue with a bronze in Gw2 and that simultaneously destroys matchmaking and any sense of competition.

6 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

It is essentially just a random queue with a leader board. I mean hell, when I play I can be anywhere from Silver 3 to Plat 2. It is chaotic and most matches are one sided blowouts. The population has dwindled so much that Gold Ranked players are easily top 250. Players of a wide margin of ranks are thrown in matches together, which leads to trolling and rage quitting and newer players being berated for not being as good as the more experienced players they were forced into a match with. With rating and pips at stake, it just adds fuel to the fire for raging players. Meanwhile, the best way to actually get pips and rating, is to game the system by only playing during off-peak hours and que dodging anyone that might actually put up a balanced fight. Sure, removing duo queue might make it slightly more difficult to exploit the system, but it will in no way stop it.

Removing DuoQ would make it significantly harder to exploit the system.

The randomness of SoloQ is actual one of its biggest boons. With everyone similarly disadvantaged there is scant chance for misadventure.

There's no DuoQs of widely different ratings to confuddle the matchmaker so everyone is more closely ranked together.

Toxicity is a bigger issue that isn't exclusive to SoloQ. You can't force an agenda, you have to inspire one. That isn't going to get done by burning down the most popular way in which people queue. Infact, doing that is likely only going to make people more resentful.

And SBMM in Unranked/Casual queue is another monster in its entirety that extends across many PvP games. I employ you to go look at the community reactions to such things in games like Apex. It is generally not very well-received at all, and that game actually has a competitive option.

 

Why not just live and let live? Everyone should be able to queue how they want and for what exactly they want. 

We shouldn't be forced to play some arbitrary sweaty Unranked arena to no purpose just because a handful of people dislike SoloQ.

If anything, that's more cause to split the queues so that the two don't have to interact with eachother.

[Kuya.6495]

It looks like your suggestion mostly just creates more incentive to do ATs.  It also seems like your suggestion really isn't about getting rid of ranked, since you're essentially turning unranked into ranked in all by name. The only real difference is that you're removing visible ratings and badges and putting the tickets in ATs. Which, I will afford you, will decrease toxicity since people get mad about their rating.

 

The biggest impact from your suggestion is a negative one, unfortunately.  And it's not because you got rid of ranked. It's because you have split the game mode into multiple queues. You have a solo conquest queue and a team queue. And then you have a 2v2 and a 3v3 queue (would these queues also have a solo queue and a team queue each?). That's 4 separate queues with a potential 6 if you do solo and team queues for 2v2 and 3v3. With this many queues, wait times will go up exponentially. While you might have solved the problem with ranked toxicity by removing badges and visible ratings, you now have people no longer willing to pvp because the queue times are too big. Plus they can only get tickets in ATs now. Most casual pvp players would stop playing and what little population the game mode has left would shrink further.

 

A for effort though!

Edited June 3, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[Shaogin.2679]

14 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

It looks like your suggestion mostly just creates more incentive to do ATs.  It also seems like your suggestion really isn't about getting rid of ranked, since you're essentially turning unranked into ranked in all by name. The only real difference is that you're removing visible ratings and badges and putting the tickets in ATs. Which, I will afford you, will decrease toxicity since people get mad about their rating.

 

The biggest impact from your suggestion is a negative one, unfortunately.  And it's not because you got rid of ranked. It's because you have split the game mode into multiple queues. You have a solo conquest queue and a team queue. And then you have a 2v2 and a 3v3 queue (would these queues also have a solo queue and a team queue each?). That's 4 separate queues with a potential 6 if you do solo and team queues for 2v2 and 3v3. With this many queues, wait times will go up exponentially. While you might have solved the problem with ranked toxicity by removing badges and visible ratings, you now have people no longer willing to pvp because the queue times are too big. Plus they can only get tickets in ATs now. Most casual pvp players would stop playing and what little population the game mode has left would shrink further.

 

A for effort though!

Actually the number of queues remains the same. Assuming of course Unranked still has that option where you click the check boxes for the game mode you want to play. Just instead of Ranked and Unranked, it is solo or team. But it combines the Unranked playerbase and Ranked playerbase. And if they all gravitate towards solo queue then that is just what happens, but that would mean solo queue players would have a drastically larger playerbase in the queues, and with the match maker system would have better quality matches than they currently do. As for tickets being in ATs, again, win or lose they would still get them. Forming groups for them is easy, happens all the time currently for people looking to get the easy gold from it. And with an increase in frequency, it would be easily accessible. 

[thivasss.6023]

This is honestly a really bad take. 

-The one advantage is the increased population on one mode which is overall more healthy for the matchmaking, but then as you mentioned there are splits like, Solo Queue, Team Queue, 2v2 and 3v3 which defeat the advantages.

-The competitive players will also lose their option to just solo queue and are forced to create teams is another very self centered mindset. 

-Let's say we end up with a more balanced match maker, unranked will be even worst that it is now. Hidden ranking system will mean that my opponents will be as good as my best class. So every time I want to try/learn/experiment with a new build/class I am gonna literally throw the games for the rest of my team... Ofcourse I am not saying this doesn't already exist in both modes right now, but with a unified mode it will be present for EVERY SINGLE game. 

-Unranked also implies there are no visible ranks. Competitive players usually enjoy their journey of growing and becoming better, that's what Silver/Gold/Plat means and it represents at what point of their journey they are in. This can't be solved with ATs. 

-Unranked exist for people who want to relax or experiment. Ranked exist for people who want to improve and climb the ladder. ATs exist for people who want to team up and win. Each mode has a purpose. Yes there are problems with each mode, but not only they won't be solved with the removal of ranked, but new ones will appear.. 

 

-

Edited June 5, 2022 by thivasss.6023