Swiss Army Knife - Another Core Engineer Main Hand Weapon

[Eddy.7051]

I would appreciate if there was an option to choose a main hand weapon (one out of two or three) during character creation, but Engineer only has one main hand weapon. Core Engineer could use a melee weapon play style. Mace would have been perfect if (A) tool kit was replaced with a different kit, like electric/battery-powered dual crossbows shooting metal bolts that attract lightning or can be magnetically pulled/repelled, and if (B) Mechanist didn't get mace. The only other weapons that are available and realistic for the core Engineer are the dagger and axe. Axe is a bit of a stretch - maybe if the skill animations involved chainsaw animations or magnetically controlling boomerang axes.

But main hand dagger would be perfect if it was themed around a pimped out swiss army knife.

• Skill 1 Chain: Screwdriver -> Corkscrew -> Scissor Cutter
  • Screwdriver: The dagger deals a packet of damage, and the drawn out screwdriver deals a packet of damage and bleed.
  • Corkscrew: The dagger deals a packet of damage, and the drawn out corkscrew deals a packet of damage, bleed, and vulnerability.
  • Scissor Cutter: The dagger deals a packet of damage, and the drawn out scissors deal two packets of damage, vulnerability, and bleed.
• Skill 2: Drill Jab: The dagger becomes a rotary tool, dealing multiple rapid packets of damage and vulnerability. This may be an ammunition skill or interact with skill 3 to reduce the cooldown.
• Skill 3: Hot Knife: The dagger heats up and glows, giving the Engineer a fire aura, and causing all hits against foes (for a short period of time while the fire aura is up) to apply burning and gain might. This synergizes with the multi-packet hits from skills 1 and 2.

This weapon would fill the niche of 130 range, 1-3 target, power and/or condition damage for Engineers. It doesn't have the defense or CC of the hammer, it doesn't have the mobility or projectile range of the sword, and it doesn't have the CC or support of the mace.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Eddy.7051
Added: "(for a short period of time while the fire aura is up)"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well, now we know what weapon the next engi espec will be using.

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, now we know what weapon the next engi espec will be using.

Sad, but it does seem to fit the trend.

Engineer players: We really need a core melee weapon, and X will fit the theme!

ArenaNet: Guess what we've added to the next elite specialisation!

Granted, for Holosmith it works, but for golemancer, sorry, mechanist... is a golem, sorry, mech fist on a stick really the quintessential weapon for a creator of robotic combat units? Well, let's consider Exhibit A...

But yeah, while there are certainly engineering applications for axes, a tricked-out utility knife is probably the best remaining option. Not sure about the specific suggestions here... I'd probably have the basic auto chain being fairly normal blade use (possibly heated), while skills 2 and 3 involve gadgets hidden in the handle. 

[Zzik.5873]

Engineer definitly need another core mainhand ans offhand. Theirs no offhand power, only condi and supportisssshhh. Mace would have beend perfect but yeah. Maybe dual dagger... Or scepter, focus, like a telecommand or a cellphone 😛

[EdwinLi.1284]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:09 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Sad, but it does seem to fit the trend.

Engineer players: We really need a core melee weapon, and X will fit the theme!

ArenaNet: Guess what we've added to the next elite specialisation!

Granted, for Holosmith it works, but for golemancer, sorry, mechanist... is a golem, sorry, mech fist on a stick really the quintessential weapon for a creator of robotic combat units? Well, let's consider Exhibit A...

But yeah, while there are certainly engineering applications for axes, a tricked-out utility knife is probably the best remaining option. Not sure about the specific suggestions here... I'd probably have the basic auto chain being fairly normal blade use (possibly heated), while skills 2 and 3 involve gadgets hidden in the handle. 

 

Engineer certainly has a huge potential to get creative with their Main weapons especially if they make a Elite Spec that focus on their Main Weapons. 

It still comes down to creativity for Engineer theme. Holosmith is certain the Elite Spec that hits the mark right and even now it is still my prefered Elite Spec to Main for my Engineer.

 

I still wonder where they may go with Dagger and Greatsword Elite spec. Gunblade is out of the list of things since that went to Warrior and we got the Laser Sword with Holosmith. However, there are still many other types of Tech swords and tech daggers that have not been touched yet for Elite Spec such as Core powered, Heatblade, Energy based, Chainsaw, and etc. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

 

Engineer certainly has a huge potential to get creative with their Main weapons especially if they make a Elite Spec that focus on their Main Weapons. 

It still comes down to creativity for Engineer theme. Holosmith is certain the Elite Spec that hits the mark right and even now it is still my prefered Elite Spec to Main for my Engineer.

 

I still wonder where they may go with Dagger and Greatsword Elite spec. Gunblade is out of the list of things since that went to Warrior and we got the Laser Sword with Holosmith. However, there are still many other types of Tech swords and tech daggers that have not been touched yet for Elite Spec such as Core powered, Heatblade, Energy based, Chainsaw, and etc. 

A large part of the point of these discussion is that people don't want every future elite specialisation to have a melee weapon because there's no melee weapon in core, and thus if a new elite specialisation is to have the option to go melee without being forced to take a kit, it HAS to have a melee weapon.

Because that's what we've been seeing. Holosmith is justifiably a melee spec through and through, so in that case it's justified. But was there any reason mechanist had to be melee? Not really, some would say the whole point of having a minion is so that it can pin the enemy in melee so you don't have to be in melee yourself. We can see this with Inquest golemancers, who use lightning staves. But it needed to have a melee weapon to allow for "fight alongside your mech" playstyles as well as "let the mech fight in melee while you shoot from a distance" playstyles, so mace it was. Scrapper is somewhat in between: it doesn't really have to be in melee, particularly with the original design of gyros, but it needed to have a melee weapon just so it has the option.

Until and unless ArenaNet is willing to give engineer a core melee weapon, they're going to have to keep reinventing that wheel over and over again, with every elite specialisation needing a melee weapon unless it's explicitly intended to be something that never goes into melee. And I for one would like to see what ArenaNet can do for a ranged engineer outside of pistol and rifle. (Just as I'd like to see what they can do for ranged ele outside of staff and scepter, but that's a separate, albeit related, issue.)

[Xaylin.1860]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

A large part of the point of these discussion is that people don't want every future elite specialisation to have a melee weapon because there's no melee weapon in core, and thus if a new elite specialisation is to have the option to go melee without being forced to take a kit, it HAS to have a melee weapon.

While it was unlikely to begin with, I really gave up on this notion after they have added Mace via an espec. It would just have been a perfect core addition.

 

That being said, and this has been discussed several times on the forums, an at least a bit more distinct purpose of kits could help Engineers a lot. It might only be a second best thing, but still. And yes, Engineer is hybrid by design. It could still benefit from a dedicated power weapon kit, being it a reworked Bomb or Toolkit.

[EdwinLi.1284]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

A large part of the point of these discussion is that people don't want every future elite specialisation to have a melee weapon because there's no melee weapon in core, and thus if a new elite specialisation is to have the option to go melee without being forced to take a kit, it HAS to have a melee weapon.

Because that's what we've been seeing. Holosmith is justifiably a melee spec through and through, so in that case it's justified. But was there any reason mechanist had to be melee? Not really, some would say the whole point of having a minion is so that it can pin the enemy in melee so you don't have to be in melee yourself. We can see this with Inquest golemancers, who use lightning staves. But it needed to have a melee weapon to allow for "fight alongside your mech" playstyles as well as "let the mech fight in melee while you shoot from a distance" playstyles, so mace it was. Scrapper is somewhat in between: it doesn't really have to be in melee, particularly with the original design of gyros, but it needed to have a melee weapon just so it has the option.

Until and unless ArenaNet is willing to give engineer a core melee weapon, they're going to have to keep reinventing that wheel over and over again, with every elite specialisation needing a melee weapon unless it's explicitly intended to be something that never goes into melee. And I for one would like to see what ArenaNet can do for a ranged engineer outside of pistol and rifle. (Just as I'd like to see what they can do for ranged ele outside of staff and scepter, but that's a separate, albeit related, issue.)

At this point, players probably should not expact any additions to core profession.

It has been suspected to be this way since HoT first introduced Elite Specs. Though certain amount of people did not want to believe it despite the warnings from other players. 

Still it does feel that mace was only slapped onto Mechinist for the sake of getting both the Mace weapon and Mech Elite Spec introduced as one Elite Spec due to how these two things been in high demand since Core game for Mace weapon and HoT introducing Elite Spec.

That and they may have gotten these two things out of the way to focus on things that have not been in high demand since Core and HoT for Engineer's future Elite Specs in the new Storyline.

However, as I said, Engineer has a huge potential to get creative with their main weapons in a way they may even turn Melee weapons into Range weapons or range weapons intro melee weapons as they did with certain Professions and their certain Elite Specs.

 

greatsword and dagger certainly have that potential to become a new Range Weapon for Engineer if they don't want the generic Tech Arrow Longbow or Shortbow user if they go the right direction with the Sci-fi Fantasy theme GW2 is now since they can use the logic of Sci-fi, Fantasy, or both.

 

Of course they have Staff or Sceptors for potential tesla coil weapon. 
 

5 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

While it was unlikely to begin with, I really gave up on this notion after they have added Mace via an espec. It would just have been a perfect core addition.

 

That being said, and this has been discussed several times on the forums, an at least a bit more distinct purpose of kits could help Engineers a lot. It might only be a second best thing, but still. And yes, Engineer is hybrid by design. It could still benefit from a dedicated power weapon kit, being it a reworked Bomb or Toolkit.

I am still honestly surprised they never consider Mace as a Melee weapon for Core Engineer back when GW2 began due to how obvious of a choice it would have been to be the one Melee weapon to go with Shield and the Pistol never really felt it worked well with the Shield due to the Shield power based skill design. I can only guess they never consdier it or did consider it but scrapped the idea because of the Tool Kit literally being the Mace Kit for Engineer.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

Sure, it's unlikely, but it's less likely if people don't plug for it, and maybe sometime it'll hit the devs that hey, if they introduced a core melee weapon they wouldn't have to keep making them for the elite specs.

Core rev did finally get trident, so there's some hope, however slim.

Melee weapon for core engi and an alternative condi (preferably ranged) set for core rev would fill the main gaps.

[Xaylin.1860]

On 6/19/2022 at 5:12 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

...due to how obvious of a choice it would have been to be the one Melee weapon to go with Shield and the Pistol never really felt it worked well with the Shield due to the Shield power based skill design.

Yes, it would have been. I don't agree with the second part, though. Shield is perfectly fine for condi if you need defense or CC.

 

There actually is a different way they could introduce melee power DPS to core Engineer. They could make Rifle AA scale in power the closer an enemy is. It would even make sense considering it is more of a shotgun anyway.

This won't solve the issue with Shield lacking a power MH option, though. I can't come up with anything for Pistol MH that wouldn't benefit condi builds or hybrid builds too much. 

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Melee weapon for core engi and an alternative condi (preferably ranged) set for core rev would fill the main gaps.

I think Rev is a bit different than Engineer, though. First, it obviously was designed with specific weapon kits per legend in mind. It's hard to justify another weapon for condi while not providing, for example, a ranged support for Ventari as well. The best I could imagine is adding more Chill to Hammer to synergize with Corruption. Second, Mace+Ace and Mallyx actually is more of a midrange set with at least some mobility. It's quite flexible. Engineer on the other hand is stuck with 3 dead buttons on power builds when picking Shield.

 

Personally, I'm at a point where I feel that weaponswap actually might have hurt Revenant in the long run. I hated not having a weaponswap back in HoT beta. But maybe, just maybe, the Energy aspect on Revenant would have been dealt with a bit more reasonably if it lacked weapon swap. Meaning, lower or no costs on weapons or lower CDs. you name. Also, 1 additional Utility skill per legend would have been lovely...

[Bomboed.5697]

Engineer does not need another melee weapon. Most of our kits and weapons are purely melee or mostly effective at melee range.
Engineer needs core 1200 range weapon or Kit.
Give Engi a tesla-staff or Rocket Launcher Kit.

[EdwinLi.1284]

8 hours ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Engineer does not need another melee weapon. Most of our kits and weapons are purely melee or mostly effective at melee range.
Engineer needs core 1200 range weapon or Kit.
Give Engi a tesla-staff or Rocket Launcher Kit.

or go crazy and make Greatsword or Dagger the 1200 Range weapon instead of the expect generic tech arrow short bow or longbow, range staff, range sceptor, and off-hand range focus.

 

Imagine Daggers being the tesla coil weapon with the skill 3 of the weapon skill based on if you have pistol, shield, or offhand dagger if you have main hand dagger.

 

Dagger/Dagger skill 3 = self AoE that covers 600 range in a 360 degree attack by having the dagger touch each other for when enemies or players get too close that also acts as a stun. Thus allowing players to back away to range combat again or break stun bar.

Dagger/Pistol skill 3 = Tesla charged Gun shot with the dagger super charging the off-hand pistol that fires a electro beam attack.

 

Dagger/Shield skill 3 =  a super tesla charged chain lightning attack from the Shield that continuously attack the target and all enemies near it. 

 

no idea what utility it may have.

However, they can go more crazy by making Engineer have the first Main hand Focus Elite spec for their range attack main weapon.

Edited June 21, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

 I think Rev is a bit different than Engineer, though. First, it obviously was designed with specific weapon kits per legend in mind. It's hard to justify another weapon for condi while not providing, for example, a ranged support for Ventari as well. The best I could imagine is adding more Chill to Hammer to synergize with Corruption. Second, Mace+Ace and Mallyx actually is more of a midrange set with at least some mobility. It's quite flexible. Engineer on the other hand is stuck with 3 dead buttons on power builds when picking Shield.

 

Personally, I'm at a point where I feel that weaponswap actually might have hurt Revenant in the long run. I hated not having a weaponswap back in HoT beta. But maybe, just maybe, the Energy aspect on Revenant would have been dealt with a bit more reasonably if it lacked weapon swap. Meaning, lower or no costs on weapons or lower CDs. you name. Also, 1 additional Utility skill per legend would have been lovely...

They're different professions with different issues, and I don't really think the engineer subforum is the place to have the discussion, but, to go through your points in order:

* Yes, the existing weapons on land were designed to match specific legends, but we have generic weapons underwater. I don't think having a weapon set on land that's generic would break the theme.

* Heck, if it has a similar "exact effects change with legend channeled" principle to trident, it could have support elements when used with Ventari.

* Adding more condition damage to hammer to make it a hybrid rather than pure power is an alternative I've also proposed. (Would serve to reduce the CoR spikes in WvW if some of the damage comes from, say, bleeding rather than being pure power.)

* I can't really consider something "midrange" when the autoattack is melee. Mace/anything is a melee setup with a few ranged skills available. Similar to, in order to give an example pertinent to this subforum, holosmith sword.

* The big problem was that, unlike core engineer and elementalist, revenant weapons without being able to swap really pigeonholed it in terms of role. Hammer left you pretty close to being helpless in close (at the time, the legend skills weren't able to offset that, not sure if they would now), sword was all but exclusively melee, staff was exclusively melee apart from the blind on skill 3 that did no damage, mace was the only weapon that really kinda worked because the fire field had a short enough recharge that you could just keep using that. Compare that to elementalist and engineer core weapons, which certainly had optimal ranged but were generally neither exclusively melee nor helpless in melee. And it didn't have the option to pick up a kit or a conjure to fill that gap. For revenant to have worked as a no-weaponswap profession would, I think, have required remaking most of its land weapons from scratch.

12 hours ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Engineer does not need another melee weapon. Most of our kits and weapons are purely melee or mostly effective at melee range.
Engineer needs core 1200 range weapon or Kit.
Give Engi a tesla-staff or Rocket Launcher Kit.

The core weapons are ranged, albeit with the ability to do more damage in close range (part of being a no-weaponswap profession needing more versatile core weapons). Grenades, mortar, and elixir gun are all designed for longer-range use (people use acid bomb for damage, I know, but it's intended as a gap-opener).

We just have a lot of melee weapons now because every elite specialisation has been given a melee weapon. If there was a melee weapon on core, maybe that can stop and there'll be a chance for something like that tesla-staff.

[Bomboed.5697]

17 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

or go crazy and make Greatsword or Dagger the 1200 Range weapon instead of the expect generic tech arrow short bow or longbow, range staff, range sceptor, and off-hand range focus.

 

Imagine Daggers being the tesla coil weapon with the skill 3 of the weapon skill based on if you have pistol, shield, or offhand dagger if you have main hand dagger.

 

Dagger/Dagger skill 3 = self AoE that covers 600 range in a 360 degree attack by having the dagger touch each other for when enemies or players get too close that also acts as a stun. Thus allowing players to back away to range combat again or break stun bar.

Dagger/Pistol skill 3 = Tesla charged Gun shot with the dagger super charging the off-hand pistol that fires a electro beam attack.

 

Dagger/Shield skill 3 =  a super tesla charged chain lightning attack from the Shield that continuously attack the target and all enemies near it. 

 

no idea what utility it may have.

However, they can go more crazy by making Engineer have the first Main hand Focus Elite spec for their range attack main weapon.

I simply prefer 2H weapons for Engi, because our Off-hands are crap.
And it always feels better to get 5 new skills rather than 3.