A Message About the Mount Adoption License

[Raesin.2908]

lol I hope all you guys are happy then.So you cried enough after saying you're not willing to spend any money, or even earn gold to get these mounts. I don't see why Anet should cater to you in this case but anyway..Enjoy individual mount skins being more expensive so they can recoup their losses. Now instead of getting 2 or 3 nice skins, we'll get one.If they had just stuck a license in the BLC as a Rare or Super Rare drop, y'all wouldn't be crying now, even though the RNG in those chests is way worse, and guess what, they were in the game from day one. Why didn't you guys start virtue signalling over those? Oh right, it's because you didn't want what was inside them, so it didn't affect you, so you didn't care. Massive hypocrites, as always.

[Mentor.4130]

Enjoy individual mount skins being more expensive so they can recoup their losses. Now instead of getting 2 or 3 nice skins, we'll get one.

So which is better? Paying a bit more for skin you actually want or pay a lot more to get skin you want if rng gods are against you? Which happens most of the time.

[killermanjaro.5670]

Good to hear this will change going forward, though very disappointing that we won't be able to buy these skins individually, no idea why you can't just offer them individually at an increased price alongside the licenses (even if it was double). That way cheap licences are there for those who want to play the rng game, but those of us who don't could just pay a premium to unlock the one we want.

I've seen people argue things like trading card packs are random etc, but at least in those cases (be it physical booster packs or stuff like Ultimate Team packs), any unwanted items can ALL be traded or exchanged for currencies or other items to help players get the ones they want! Here if a player wants 1 skin and has bad luck then they would have to spend a fortune in gold or cash, to end up with a batch of skins which are useless to them, have zero value, and can't be traded or exchanged to contribute in any way to the only one skin they might actually like! Here unwanted skins are a dead weight, nothing can be done with them.

This is an awful system that doesn't account for players who have no interest in collecting all the skins, and just want an individual one (or a few). It also excludes players who don't have the cash, or the time to farm what would be a ridiculous amount of gold to potentially have to buy up to 30 licences before they get what they want! It really does feel like the Anet message for this batch of skins is that unless you are in the part of the playerbase who has money to throw at the game, or can invest enough time to get 3k+ of gold, then you might as well write off this batch of skins. You wanted to create variety? Well done, you've achieved that by dividing the player base into those who can afford to gamble for what they want, and those who can't, that's the variety that this system has created.

Also for clarification, going forward, are you saying that we will be able to buy individual mount skins for just one mount? Or are you saying that an individual skin will be available, but we will only be able to buy it as a package for all of the mounts, regardless of weather we actually want the skin for all of the mounts or not? I guess the later would at least be better than the atrocious license system, but still quite bad imo.

[Brandkanne.8571]

Thank you very much for your reaction into the right direction!

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

(...) We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, (...)

I absolutely understand your intention and/or the problem of a "rollback" of the skin unlockment system you started on tuesday. But why you don't.... (now my suggestion to do a "proper" risk free rollback)

• Stop selling the licences
• Give every player a coupon (1) for every unlocked skin (via adoption license)
• reset all unlocked mount skins.
  1. Players can use their coupons to unlock mount skins per choice

Advantages:

• you fully remove this RNG mount unlock system
• no investments get invalide
• players, who have been unhappy with their random skin, can get the skin they wanted to have.

Sounds like a very good solution for me.

[StaggerLee.6397]

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound~ MO

Speaking of Reforged Warhound. It's a nice looking skin, but for 2000 gems, I would have expected it to be for all 5 mounts, not just 1. Just saying might wanna think about the price on some of that stuff. Not even the Balthazar outfit was that high in price when it came out.

No kidding. $25 for a single mount skin? How does that make any sense?

I just don't get why they wouldn't include any skins in the game in a way that's fun to play or collect on top of purchased mounts so that everyone can have fun, or some way in-game to achieve an adopted mount license in-game like most other loot-box filled games do. Sure, I don't like lootboxes in other games usually, but they also normally have a mechanic by which you can more slowly earn those lootboxes. GW2 completely ignores this and expects its players to spend a large amount of RL money or sit around farming all day for the gold to convert to gems (and I think it's worthy to note that the whole philosophy behind GW2 was that you wouldn't have to sit around farming and grinding all day like in other MMOs).

[Thelgar.7214]

There are a few mounts in the set of 30 that are highly desirable for certain character themes such as those with flame and frost effects. Are there going to be future releases of mounts with these commonly desired effects? Otherwise, you're still sticking players with characters with those themes with only RNG to get skins that suit their characters...

[Lanhelin.3480]

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:snip

Well, your statement supports the rng protest event even further. Thank you very much!

[Myrdreth.6829]

@Skye.1572 said:"We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made" - ArenaNet PROh, like they did with Town Clothes? Remember when they took out an entire feature and replaced it with something that made our purchases completely worthless? They took out all the mix and match customization and dying of them and gave us clothing tonics of fixed outfits and colors to replace the items. They gave us the option of gem refunds for the investment they invalidated if we wanted that instead of the tonics. So.... why can't they do that here? I know why. It's because they want us to gamble for the ones we want, or fork over the $120 to get all of them. It's not our investment they're worried about, it's theirs.

It's hard to take this halfhearted PR jargon seriously after reading that line.

I don't understand what's so difficult about just refunding all the players who already got an adoption licence and just let them choose which mount they want. They don't want that, that's all. It's possible, but they simply don't want that it seems.

@Daishi.6027 said:Suggestion. In the future let it roll 3-4 mount skins we haven’t already unlocked (from entire pool) and let us select between them to reduce the RNG, or at least increase the likelihood of getting what you want.

On the other hand you could also have contracts that roll for skins of a specific mount.

2000 for ONE mount is way to much, 1000 is pushing it but would probably be fair, 800 would be ideal. As nice as it is, it has to be a bit more than what we got to justify that price. Maybe multi slot would have been received better? Like raptor + jackal despite same same skin?

800 gems is the highest price I would be willing to pay for a single skin. For a really special and shiny skin. Normal skins should cost something like 300-500 gems.

@Kapax.3801 said:I mean that the initial 30 skins must be given for lost, you should think this as a pyramid and see that every time the cost to get the desired skin is more expensive ... In the end loses the consumer in this strategy. Picture a closed box where inside there are 29 blue kitten and 1 red, for each attempt you must spend 5 dollars, then your first 10 attempts will only come out blue, and in the attempt 11 you will finally get the red one, on the one hand you will be happy, but for the other unfortunate for having spent more than 55 dollars. I raise this because not all their skins are "attractive" and the consumer, in this case, go for the striking ...

Well, your attention is appreciated.

PS: 25 dollars for a skin, you should think better before that, even a DLC of any game today comes out cheaper ...

That's what bothers me the most. I just like a few skins...but to get them I first need to get a lot of really boring and useless skins that I'll never ever use. So in the end, my desired mount skin costs a lot more than just 400 gems. We are not stupid, Anet. We see what you did there.

I appreciate it that Anet answered us...but I am not sure I like the answer. It worries me how they treat their customers. It's nice to know that they won't add RNG in future releases. But is it really that hard to fix the adoption licences? Please reconsider.

[Faowri.4159]

For the existing 30 skins caught up in this, ultimately this just means we still can't simply buy the specific items we want. When the items in question are cosmetic only, it's a ridiculous concept. I am happy to give you guys money for the things I want but I can't stand this kind of unethical gambling concept in gaming. I have never bought keys for that reason. I have never bought anything from your store or any game ever with real money that meant I was gambling for a small chance at what I actually wanted. My money and the work that went into earning it is more valuable than that, and certainly more than these practices would suggest ArenaNet feel it is.

That you're not even considering e.g. splitting the adoption licence up by mount type so people can at least get something for a mount they actually USE, just means to me that you're pretty committed to making people spend more than they really need to for a chance to get what they would willingly give you money for anyway. There's no real justification for this arbitrary barrier to desired purchases beyond increasing your profits at the consumer's expense.

You guys never needed us to tell you this sales format was unethical. It always has been, and it always will be. I'm sad that there aren't more practical proposals for changes in your post, as it means I will pretty much never be giving you money for any of those 30 skins.

[Myrdreth.6829]

@Faowri.4159 said:For the existing 30 skins caught up in this, ultimately this just means we still can't simply buy the specific items we want. When the items in question are cosmetic only, it's a ridiculous concept. I am happy to give you guys money for the things I want but I can't stand this kind of unethical gambling concept in gaming. I have never bought keys for that reason. I have never bought anything from your store or any game ever with real money that meant I was gambling for a small chance at what I actually wanted. My money and the work that went into earning it is more valuable than that, and certainly more than these practices would suggest ArenaNet feel it is.

That you're not even considering e.g. splitting the adoption licence up by mount type so people can at least get something for a mount they actually USE, just means to me that you're pretty committed to making people spend more than they really need to for a chance to get what they would willingly give you money for anyway. There's no real justification for this arbitrary barrier to desired purchases beyond increasing your profits at the consumer's expense.

You guys never needed us to tell you this sales format was unethical. It always has been, and it always will be. I'm sad that there aren't more practical proposals for changes in your post, as it means I will pretty much never be giving you money for any of those 30 skins.

Thanks! That's exactly how I feel, I just wasn't sure how to phrase it.

[Roo.2037]

Yeah, this isn't reassuring. I think I liked silence more.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

While I understand that alot of people were hoping for a different outcome on this I wasn't really surprised by it because any other option would have required them to compensate anybody that has already purchased a skin(s) which would have created another problem in itself. Speaking only for myself the mount skins were a none issue, I thought they looked really nice but I wasn't losing and sleep over them(my wife on the other hand thinks they are fantastic so I can't win on that one.)

The only thing out of this whole debacle that still confuses me is the level of outrage that was expressed by a section of this community which seemed to me to be totally overblown when compared to what actually happened. I understand the people are passionate on some issues but some of the actions (rage quit etc...) were really over the top but I guess thats the internet for you in that nobody pays you any attention unless your dramatic.

Just curious would this have been more acceptable if the skins had been tradable or maybe narrow the RNG by letting you choose the mount type before you dealing with the RNG (Pick from Griffon, Raptor, Skimmer, or Bunny then it's RNG).

[LapaSaiza.3647]

I honestly liked the mount adopt packt, because all the skins were wonderful and the system was still in the players favor. Though I do respect people who have an issue with it. I think this solution is the best they could come up with and it respects both parties. Even though I would actually think some kind of lottery here and now would be nice. Maybe instead of 30 skins, just do 5skins in rotation. But I don't know.

[Myrdreth.6829]

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:Just curious would this have been more acceptable if the skins had been tradable or maybe narrow the RNG by letting you choose the mount type before you dealing with the RNG (Pick from Griffon, Raptor, Skimmer, or Bunny then it's RNG).

Yes.

[FireWolf.3192]

I think the adoption system is perfectly fine. Random boxes have been a part of mmos forever. Black lion chests are one of these mechanics. I think as long as they don't lower the chances that this a perfectly fine mechanic. I think being just being able to buy skins removes any luck and skill from the game.

[Fox.3469]

I'm disappointed, they are not understanding the real problem.

[Peth.5179]

I posted this on reddit and i will post it here too

This whole anwser is really bad, i feel that players got blamed for the whole situation - you wanted skins? We gave you skins so dont complain.

Yea this situation doesnt encourge me to play this game, i didnt want to play other mmos cause i hate farming for gold, but now if i want to have cool looking character with cool looking mount i have to farm for gold or pay with my real money and i just bought the expansion like a month ago. The worst part is that this response made me realize that not much will change and things will just get worse.

[Daralii.8940]

@StaggerLee.6397 said:

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound~ MO

Speaking of Reforged Warhound. It's a nice looking skin, but for 2000 gems, I would have expected it to be for all 5 mounts, not just 1. Just saying might wanna think about the price on some of that stuff. Not even the Balthazar outfit was that high in price when it came out.

No kidding. $25 for a single mount skin? How does that make any sense?

Because it's what Blizzard charges. However, unlike WoW, GW2 doesn't have hundreds of mount skins available through actually playing the game.

[feetpicenjoyer.6418]

This is not an apology, it's a scolding combined with just a touch of guilt tripping the playerbase into buying them.

I supported this game for years, but it feels like buying gems only makes the playable content shrink while the gemstore is getting more and more bloated with more and more shady business.

I uninstalled not so long ago and I'd be happy to return once this game gets proper content (pvp, fractals, dungeons) with rewards delivered on a regular basis. And by that I mean a ratio better than 1 such content drop for every 200 gemstore items.

[Sykper.6583]

Thanks for getting back to us MO! It's probably not going to what a lot of folks are going to like, but thank you for clarifying your stance! Can't win them all!

[Nausicca.6038]

Hi MO, thank you for your answer. It’s quite rare in the world of MMOs to have direct communication like this.I understand your point of view. We all know that mounts are the ultimate cash grab. They can be sooooo expensive in other MMOs and you need this money. You’re a business after all, so why not doing what all your competitors are already doing? It would be stupid to not do it, especialy when you already have people ready to buy the RNG stuff. The black lion chests must have been a good indicator for you. I,ve watched several youtubers showing gems spikes when you released weapon skins attached to the chests.Considering how many mounts skins I can see IG, I guess it’s working. This is a good and a bad news, but mostly a good news for me. If it works, it means we will have more content, which is great. The bad news is that we will probably have more RNG stuff coming as well, despite you saying the opposite.

Like I said in the other thread, I’m agains’t RNG with real money, especialy for virtual goods, so I won’t support it. You’ll have my support for other stuff since I regulary buy gems, and I really enjoy your game and your company. Mounts are amazing even without reskins because of their mechanicsand It’s enough for me.

I wish you the best, and hopefully, you’ll add a golem mount in the next LW with all the money generated from the mount adoption. An asura can hope.

[Tseison.4659]

To be honest I’m not even gonna bother hearing you guys out on as to why you decided to “work so hard” to give us this mount license when it could’ve been given to us at the release of POF.

This “balance patch” should’ve been meant to fix all the professions elites and if possible, the core and HoT elite specs as well. But as usual, you guys seem to focus all your resources on petty gem store gimmicks.

Ever since the roll out of the patch, the pof maps are still fairly dead, people are just hanging out at lions arch on their “new mounts” and that’s literally it...

What the heck is there to do anymore when we’ve all done it all? You’re taking your sweet time giving us the next living story. You’re taking even longer to balance/make changes to the professions.

What’s the point anymore of the game if you don’t care about it and just care about making money from the gem store. Since you’re not listening to us and you can’t say that you are because nothing from our feedback threads was reflected in this patch.

So much for change...

[inubasiri.8745]

@EMTDJ.9042 said:To those complaining about the mount skins being RNG, yet were perfectly ok with Pokémon, Yugioh, Magic, Baseball cards, and all other forms of collectable games being RNG, you have no place to complain. People go and spend 25, 50, 100's of dollars at a time, with no real guarantee on what you will get unless the one you need is outside the package or fearured, on these collectable games with packs and tins and no one complains.

Except in Magic's case, pretty much nobody opens boosters for the RNG anymore. What happens is that shops open thousands of booster packs at once and then put the individual cards on sale. And thus it's not the same thing at all.

[Tydides.9268]

Thank you, Mo. This means a lot. You guys have always been awesome with your commitment to your consumers - it’s one of the reasons I’m happy to support the game and the gem store.

The only thing I’d ask is a way to get some of the thirty mounts individually - perhaps at a higher price, or through the trading post? If you did that, the solution would be perfect.

Something like an extra, 800 gem special ticket that lets you pick your mount.

Again, thank you. Path of Fire has been amazing and exciting; now I can feel amazed and excited again.

[HitmanHaydon.1053]

It's easy guys, DO NOT BUY ANY GEMS.ANet obviously aren't interested in our opinions, just our money.Just another company trying to squeeze what they can out of their customers rather than plan for the future.