ArenaNet is leaving money on the table by only producing outfit-tech pieces

[Danikat.8537]

23 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Can we define armor tech and outfit tech?  The linked Reddit thread didn’t do a good job of it and is referring to individual pieces as being outfit tech. If we going to use those designations in this thread then they need to be defined. 

 

22 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Have anything to support the claim that new armor pieces, or sets, are created using the outfit system rather than the armor system?

I'd like to know more about this as well. The references to 'outfit tech' have been confusing me because I've never seen any mention before this thread that there's 2 different systems for creating armour skins or any evidence that's the case. As far as I can tell the OP of the reddit thread decided at some point new gem store armour skins became chunkier and concluded that's because they're being made in a different way, but that seems like a big jump in logic and even if it's true I'm not sure what it's got to do with outfits.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

Outfit Tech: Whatever ArenaNet does in order to use the exact same skin on all three weights with no changes.
Armor Tech: Used by normal skins. You'll note that these are much more slim-fitting unless the former is a pure particle effect. A particularly interesting example of this is the (non-gemstore) monastery set, which looks the same on all three weights, but has different cut points on each and fits closely, unlike anything I'd consider to be "Outfit Tech". OP also noted the foefire medium leggings as a recent gemstore example of the latter.

I'm pretty sure the 'tech' they use to make the exact same skin on all 3 armour weight is just making 3 versions of it. That's why they're not all identical: take the foe fire skin for example, the medium version has the dangling straps which hang over the legs attached to the chest, just like how most medium chest pieces go below the waist (many are knee length), whereas on the heavy and light versions those straps are part of the leg armour.

I think that's why the majority of gem store armour skins since they stopped selling full sets have been gloves, shoulders and helmets, those are easier to fit to all 3 armour weights because they don't need to change the design to fit the underlying armour template.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Danikat.8537

[Sarandiel.2906]

3 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

 

I'd like to know more about this as well. The references to 'outfit tech' have been confusing me because I've never seen any mention before this thread that there's 2 different systems for creating armour skins or any evidence that's the case. As far as I can tell the OP of the reddit thread decided at some point new gem store armour skins became chunkier and concluded that's because they're being made in a different way, but that seems like a big jump in logic and even if it's true I'm not sure what it's got to do with outfits.

I don't have any insider info you don't know, including why OP came up with the term, but at least to me it's pretty clear what uses it and what doesn't. Almost everything that unlocks instantly for all 3 weights uses "outfit tech" - the only exception I can think of being the monastery set and the foefire legs OP noted. Perhaps there's no framework, but if I worked at ArenaNet and heard that designers were having to make skins given to all three weights such as the LS mastery rewards three times, I'd be building a system to automatically handle that - tradeoffs in fit be damned - ASAP.

The way I generally tell is the cut points and differences between weights - if it's the exact same on all three weights, it's outfit tech. If it differs - even slightly - it's armor tech, which is why I think the monastery set is armor tech despite being identical on all 3 weights, as the cutoff points differ.

[Labjax.2465]

People have been asking for swimsuits for idk how long and they don't do it, so yeah, they are def leaving money on the table. I'm not sure by what internal rules they decide where they don't want to go because they'll do stuff like overpriced to hell mount skins and random unlock "licenses" for them.

In short, it's like they embrace some of the worst monetization practices (or try to, if people don't call them out too hard) but are reluctant to directly give people what they ask for. Makes no sense to me. Maybe it's a monetization practice I'm missing, is to ignore what the customer wants and assume you know them better.

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

Outfit Tech: Whatever ArenaNet does in order to use the exact same skin on all three weights with no changes.
Armor Tech: Used by normal skins. You'll note that these are much more slim-fitting unless the former is a pure particle effect. A particularly interesting example of this is the (non-gemstore) monastery set, which looks the same on all three weights, but has different cut points on each and fits closely, unlike anything I'd consider to be "Outfit Tech". OP also noted the foefire medium leggings as a recent gemstore example of the latter.

How’s that different from armor tech where they use the same skin?  They usually do this on things like gloves and helms as they’re less likely to clash compared to body and leg pieces. 

[Sarandiel.2906]

7 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

How’s that different from armor tech where they use the same skin?  They usually do this on things like gloves and helms as they’re less likely to clash compared to body and leg pieces. 

 

1 hour ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

The way I generally tell is the cut points and differences between weights - if it's the exact same on all three weights, it's outfit tech. If it differs - even slightly - it's armor tech, which is why I think the monastery set is armor tech despite being identical on all 3 weights, as the cutoff points differ.

 

[Sarandiel.2906]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I'm pretty sure the 'tech' they use to make the exact same skin on all 3 armour weight is just making 3 versions of it. That's why they're not all identical: take the foe fire skin for example, the medium version has the dangling straps which hang over the legs attached to the chest, just like how most medium chest pieces go below the waist (many are knee length), whereas on the heavy and light versions those straps are part of the leg armour.

Medium Foefire is actually a perfect example - it was cited by u/ZarielZariel as an example of things being *different* between the three weights - aka armor tech. The top's a bit fuzzier, but the medium legs are explicitly a skin not used anywhere else and if you look at them ingame, are clearly armor tech.

It's definitely possible that what Zariel referred to as "outfit tech" is just a fancy version of ctrl-c ctrl-v, but as an engineer, I'd certainly hope that they have something a little more automated, and if they made three different versions of everything, they would actually be different. Preview any of the below in-game and you'll see they're completely identical (including cut points) between weights.

 

2 hours ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

We still get plenty of blingy ones, but even these feel half-assed. Whether you like bling or not, this ain't it, chief.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Sarandiel.2906
added link to the medium legs

[Freya.9075]

I think anet are doing fine with armor sets and outfits. I see many players use outfits. Ppl who don’t care much about making their style unique tends to go for them. Or ppl who just simply like them. This game has so many armor parts and fashion choices available both in game and gem store. Anet has access to more data then any of us, and they use those to decide what to make and sell or not. They want to make money so ofc they go for choices they know will sell good. What you see as bad quality others will find good and buy. Fashion taste is individual. The links you sent above this one, I like some of them. And I know many others that also like them. So yes. That is it chief 

[godfat.2604]

9 hours ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

The way I generally tell is the cut points and differences between weights - if it's the exact same on all three weights, it's outfit tech. If it differs - even slightly - it's armor tech, which is why I think the monastery set is armor tech despite being identical on all 3 weights, as the cutoff points differ.

Can we just call them unisize vs weight based skins? And probably also outfit vs individual pieces. I read the whole Reddit post and still got extremely confused about the “tech” terms. It might be established terms used on Reddit, but it looks like it’s not just me, a lot of people got confused with them here as well. Not to mention that I think it could be possible that the underlying tech is the same, it’s just the results being different. I think it’s better to focus on the results, not what exactly the tech is. Terms should be literal and self-explanatory.

Edited: And it’s really confusing to say if an armor piece is using outfit tech or an outfit is using armor tech.

Edited July 6, 2022 by godfat.2604

[Sarandiel.2906]

On 7/6/2022 at 4:00 AM, godfat.2604 said:

Can we just call them unisize vs weight based skins? And probably also outfit vs individual pieces. I read the whole Reddit post and still got extremely confused about the “tech” terms. It might be established terms used on Reddit, but it looks like it’s not just me, a lot of people got confused with them here as well. Not to mention that I think it could be possible that the underlying tech is the same, it’s just the results being different. I think it’s better to focus on the results, not what exactly the tech is. Terms should be literal and self-explanatory.

Edited: And it’s really confusing to say if an armor piece is using outfit tech or an outfit is using armor tech.

I like that idea. Maybe Unifit vs weight based? B/c I see the distinction as more about the fit - the size is merely a crutch to cover up the fit issue.

[Dante.1508]

You are wasting your time here op.. its why the original poster put their post on Reddit not GW2 forums, this place is a waste of time trying to get changes and overhauls..

 

GW2 forums are an echo chamber for Anet.

[godfat.2604]

11 hours ago, Sarandiel.2906 said:

I like that idea. Maybe Unifit vs weight based? B/c I see the distinction as more about the fit - the size is merely a crutch to cover up the fit issue.

I think that’s fine, even though I have slight concern that unifit is not a real world word, thus it’s harder to imagine what that means, and my intuition would interpret this to mean that it will universally fit, which is the opposite of what you want to express. Unisize implicitly implies that it won’t fit for some people, that would be my interpretation.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

is this armor tech the reason that most medium armor chest pieces are god kitten trench coats? is it the reason why the t2 norn medium armor chest piece has the coat/skirt section attached to it instead to the leg piece?