Anet u want Bladesworn to be played?

[nderim.7463]

Then pls let it be kittening moveable in Dragon Trigger State finally, literally NO ONE cares about the damage/support u deliver if u can't use your dodges nor ur movement properly.
At least let us able to dodge without break DTS because as it is right now, it will stay extremly disengaging to play it especially in harder content.
In my opinion we just arrived a point where u gotta accept that is not about "getting the hang on it" anymore, it is a MAJOR design Failure because movement and dodges are a MAJOR selling point for many Players since the very beginning untill now (who came from wow know what I mean).

Theres a second solution which should look like this explained in short terms: "meanwhile ur in Dragonstate, u become an unmove/break/stopable object." along with Protection and maybe some taunt mecanics which were recently discussed in the Warrior section (REALLY huge  and nice ideas there btw).

This goes of course with the expectation that u bring the Banner mess back alright, otherwise its all nonsense.

With this being said, have nice start into the week 😎

Edited July 11, 2022 by nderim.7463

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Bladesworn has so much potential. 

And yrt they kitten it up so badly. 

Give me Bladesworn, 1 week and I will make you a pop culture samurai warrior with fun and rewarding mechanics. 

[nderim.7463]

1 minute ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Bladesworn has so much potential. 

And yrt they kitten it up so badly. 

Give me Bladesworn, 1 week and I will make you a pop culture samurai warrior with fun and rewarding mechanics. 

Yea man, I'm chillin since months (EoD start) in this forum and reading so much technically good advices, it's a shame to see that the comunication is still One-Dimensional as it allways was.

[Kayberz.5346]

32 minutes ago, nderim.7463 said:

it will stay extremly disengaging to play it especially in harder content.

The OPPOSITE is true

Bladesworn is actually MORE engaging to play in high end content because you cant just mindlessly press buttons and dodge mid rotation like you can on most builds.

You actually have to THINK and plan out how you are going to position yourself so that you can optimize pulling off as many dragon slashes as possible while still doing mechanics and not feeding.

Between the stability/aegis and flickerstep you have access to along with situationaly using dragon trigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 there is  LOT you can do to deal with mechanics while optimizing your dps at the same time, but its not as braindead as something like berserker where you literally just spam a rotation with little care whether you're moving or staying still.

Bladesworns limitations make it MORE engaging to play in high end pve content than any other warrior build thats ever existed,  and if you honestly dont think that is the case, maybe its just too hard for you and what you view as "broken" design is actually just you not being able to adapt to a different playstyle built on true risk/reward gameplay.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[nderim.7463]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

The OPPOSITE is true

Bladesworn is actually MORE engaging to play in high end content because you cant just mindlessly press buttons and dodge mid rotation like you can on most builds.

You actually have to THINK and plan out how you are going to position yourself so that you can optimize pulling off as many dragon slashes as possible while still doing mechanics and not feeding.

Between the stability/aegis and flickerstep you have access to along with situationaly using dragon trigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 there is  LOT you can do to deal with mechanics while optimizing your dps at the same time, but its not as braindead as something like berserker where you literally just spam a rotation with little care whether you're moving or staying still.

Bladesworns limitations make it MORE engaging to play in high end pve content than any other warrior build thats ever existed,  and if you honestly dont think that is the case, maybe its just too hard for you and what you view as "broken" design is actually just you not being able to adapt to a different playstyle built on true risk/reward gameplay.

Gw2 Wingman (nevermindcreations.de)

I'm seeing ur point but its not realistic at all and that for many reasons, like many times said in this forum warrior has some serious core issue.

Edited July 11, 2022 by nderim.7463

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, nderim.7463 said:

Gw2 Wingman (nevermindcreations.de)

This does not change anything about his post ... What he said was true; BsW requires a TON more thought and engagement to play it successfully. That's why it's NOT played by the masses. 

[nderim.7463]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This does not change anything about his post ... What he said was true; BsW requires a TON more thought and engagement to play it successfully. That's why it's NOT played by the masses. 

well again, IF ANET WANTS IT TO BE PLAYED, right now it has a hilarious playrate of 0,92%, no matter if u or me enjoing it 😂

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Between the stability/aegis and flickerstep you have access to along with situationaly using dragon trigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 there is  LOT you can do to deal with mechanics while optimizing your dps at the same time, but its not as braindead as something like berserker where you literally just spam a rotation with little care whether you're moving or staying still.

All good but aren't you losing dps either way? Cause the melee charge attack looked like an important part of the rotation (I saw only 1 benchmark video, maybe I misinterpret). If you reposition with 2 or use the ranged attack, I assume you lost a chunk of dmg by not fully charging and landing 1. And if you delay charging 1 cause you had to dodge, you also lost some dps.

The difference between a good bladesworn and a bad bladesworn, will be how much dps they lost by knowing/not knowing when to charge? As opposed to builds that just consistently land dmg in smaller chunks and lose way less by having to dodge.

The only bladesworn I had in my daily fractal runs (since eod drop) actually complained I wasnt healing enough, I assume cause of optimizing dps by eating everything and not dodging anything.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, nderim.7463 said:

well again, IF ANET WANTS IT TO BE PLAYED, right now it has a hilarious playrate of 0,92%, no matter if u or me enjoing it 😂

That data is a subset of all play in the game. It's not an accurate indicator of how or what people are doing with BsW in the game at large. That data simply shows it's not used in the content specific to the data. 

In otherwords, yes, if Anet wants to be played more, they will buff it but I'm sure they are going to use their own more comprehensive set of data to do so. Ironically, they did in the last patch, depending on who you talk to so there is merit to the complaints about how BsW works right now. Not unexpected; it's new. It's just a matter of where it's played and how. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Thread entered clown mode really quickly

RIP

[Kayberz.5346]

35 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

All good but aren't you losing dps either way? Cause the melee charge attacked looked like an important part of the rotation (I saw only 1 benchmark video, maybe I misinterpret). If you reposition with 2 or use the ranged attack, I assume you lost a chunk of dmg by not fully charging and landing 1. And if you delay charging 1 cause you had to dodge, you also lost some dps.

The difference between a good bladesworn and a bad bladesworn, will be how much dps they lost by knowing/not knowing when to charge? As opposed to builds that just consistently land dmg in smaller chunks.

I full cleared wings 1-4 in different pugs last week playing only power bladesworn.

I was top dps in every single fight

Two of the groups had other bladesworns in it. Only one of them was neck and neck with me on dps, we were both #1/2 for the fights until he switched to engi to fill support after someone left. The other 2 bladesworns i encountered last week were doing less than half the damage i was on boss fights because they clearly couldn't figure out how to weave dragonslashes in while avoiding mechanics.

The only things getting anywhere close to competing on dps with me and that other good bladesworn player were mechanists and condi virtuosos

 

People keep parroting the stupid "only good at hitting golems" line every time someone brings up bladesworn being the top power dps but that line comes from a place of ignorance and pessimism 

If you actually learn how to utilize bladesworns kit you can pump those numbers in actual encounters and maintain good dps uptime. (WITHOUT eating unnecessary damage as well)

The dps you lose by sometimes using dragontrigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 is minimal comparatively to other classes because in the situations you do that other classes sometimes lose even more dps in those same situations because they dont have the ability to gapclose/range hit cleave  for 100k+ damage per target in an instant.

For example, on the keinang overlook strike mission during the golem/sniper phase you can use dragontrigger 2 while inside the hitbox of either the golem or sniper while switching targets to the other one and hit both of them for over 100k damage while simultaneously repositioning instead of just doing slightly more damage on just 1 of them 

Cleave potential with 2 and 3 is huge if you get creative with it

Edited July 11, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Hotride.2187]

19 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

I full cleared wings 1-4 in different pugs last week playing only power bladesworn.

I was top dps in every single fight

Well if you think the dps will stay the same, great I guess.

I thought they'll nuke shouts out of existence in competitive, but they keep buffing them instead. So maybe they'll leave the dps in pve untouched too.

[Kayberz.5346]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Well if you think the dps will stay the same, great I guess.

I thought they'll nuke shouts out of existence in competitive, but they keep buffing them instead. So maybe they'll leave the dps in pve untouched too.

Well considering dps is pretty much the only value warrior can bring to a group in the current meta i hope they at least let us have that, at least until they can figure out how to give us an actual viable support build

Edited July 11, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Kayberz.5346]

59 minutes ago, nderim.7463 said:

well again, IF ANET WANTS IT TO BE PLAYED, right now it has a hilarious playrate of 0,92%, no matter if u or me enjoing it 😂

Maybe if all the "warrior mains" on the forums and reddit weren't constantly spreading misinformation about how "terrible" bladesworn is based purely on their very subjective playstyle biases there would be more people willing to actually try and learn to play the spec properly and see how good it actually is.

Negative stigmas have a HUGE influence on playrates. Something can be objectively better than other things, but if the majority of the community isn't aware of it then the meta will not reflect it

[anbujackson.9564]

2 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

The OPPOSITE is true

Bladesworn is actually MORE engaging to play in high end content because you cant just mindlessly press buttons and dodge mid rotation like you can on most builds.

You actually have to THINK and plan out how you are going to position yourself so that you can optimize pulling off as many dragon slashes as possible while still doing mechanics and not feeding.

Between the stability/aegis and flickerstep you have access to along with situationaly using dragon trigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 there is  LOT you can do to deal with mechanics while optimizing your dps at the same time, but its not as braindead as something like berserker where you literally just spam a rotation with little care whether you're moving or staying still.

Bladesworns limitations make it MORE engaging to play in high end pve content than any other warrior build thats ever existed,  and if you honestly dont think that is the case, maybe its just too hard for you and what you view as "broken" design is actually just you not being able to adapt to a different playstyle built on true risk/reward gameplay.

You can do your optimazing still when you are able to move with 50% speed in DT and you are able to dodge and not loose all your ressources. And thats the whole point of this thread. Give some restricted movement in DT, thats it.

And about your w1-4 adventure.. We might want to stop this "I played spec xyz and I was top dps the whole time". I mean really?

Experienced people could have played untamed and be top dps all the time. Whats your point exactly? Thats a player skill issue. I played power berserker last weekend and outdpsed bladesworns, virtuosos and the like. It doesnt change the fact of design issues.

Mechs get QoL so they can mindlessly spam their cooldowns because they interrupted skills before. The OP just wants a bit movement freedom. Thats like MILES apart. On berserker I would like more control over my mode and core t1 bursts. Is that too much to ask for? Guess I just ask for more bladesworn buffs so instead of 70% DT1 will be 80% of my damage because I can use DT even more. Such fun.

[anbujackson.9564]

4 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Maybe if all the "warrior mains" on the forums and reddit weren't constantly spreading misinformation about how "terrible" bladesworn is based purely on their very subjective playstyle biases there would be more people willing to actually try and learn to play the spec properly and see how good it actually is.

Negative stigmas have a HUGE influence on playrates. Something can be objectively better than other things, but if the majority of the community isn't aware of it then the meta will not reflect it

People play whatever they want, these threads dont matter at all for the majority.

All my friends who played berserker tested bladesworn and got bored with it. They didnt read some random rant from people, they saw the gameplay and decided no, not for me.

In my opinion the only good place for bladesworn are power bosses with damage multipliers. Any cc heavy power boss like samarog or sloth isnt just about dps. Utility is what matters and besides cc there isnt much to be found on warrior which makes it unattractive.

[Kayberz.5346]

1 minute ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

People play whatever they want, these threads dont matter at all for the majority.

All my friends who played berserker tested bladesworn and got bored with it. They didnt read some random rant from people, they saw the gameplay and decided no, not for me.

In my opinion the only good place for bladesworn are power bosses with damage multipliers. Any cc heavy power boss like samarog or sloth isnt just about dps. Utility is what matters and besides cc there isnt much to be found on warrior which makes it unattractive.

Just because bladesworn is a warrior elite spec doesn't necessarily mean that its playstyle would or should equally appeal to people that like the other warrior specs playstyles

The whole point of elite specs is to open up new and different playstyles for classes.

Someone whos favorite playstyle is the fast paced in your face button mashing gameplay berserker offers might not like the more methodical and positioning pre-planning focused playstyle of bladesworn, which is perfectly fine.

Bladesworn plays a lot more like "big nuke" classes that are typically ranged casters in other games, like blackmage in final fantasy or fire mage/destro warlock in wow, a playstyle that has been completely absent from guild wars 2 until now

Different things appeal to different people

 

[anbujackson.9564]

3 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Just because bladesworn is a warrior elite spec doesn't necessarily mean that its playstyle would or should equally appeal to people that like the other warrior specs playstyles

The whole point of elite specs is to open up new and different playstyles for classes.

Someone whos favorite playstyle is the fast paced in your face button mashing gameplay berserker offers might not like the more methodical and positioning pre-planning focused playstyle of bladesworn, which is perfectly fine.

Bladesworn plays a lot more like "big nuke" classes that are typically ranged casters in other games, like blackmage in final fantasy or fire mage/destro warlock in wow, a playstyle that has been completely absent from guild wars 2 until now

Different things appeal to different people

 

Yes... I still dont know what exactly speaks against the idea of having restricted movement in DT? 

This is a high mobile combat we are talking about here, hell Anet describes it as such on twitter. Do you think a new player has fun charging an attack just to interrupt it in the end because he used any sort of movement? No.

Even long time players are not standing still while doing their rotation. I always keep moving left and right, back and forth while staying in (melee)range. It pains my muscle memory to do nothing for like 40% of my rotation time. Remember the old tempest meta with extra dps while moving? Now give those players bladesworn.

You described berserker as mindless spam. Maybe. But at least I can interrupt my rotation at any time and do mechs or rezz people. This is a pure nuke spec like you said. You need to be carried, just like weavers. And no one played condi weaver.

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Yes... I still dont know what exactly speaks against the idea of having restricted movement in DT? 

I feel like bladesworn will take a hefty damage nerf in that case.

The fact that you are rooted for a long channel is the entire justification why DT is allowed to deal such ridiculous damage. If you now allow bladesworn to move (even if restricted) during that time, quite alot of that justification goes out the window.

[nderim.7463]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

I full cleared wings 1-4 in different pugs last week playing only power bladesworn.

I was top dps in every single fight

Two of the groups had other bladesworns in it. Only one of them was neck and neck with me on dps, we were both #1/2 for the fights until he switched to engi to fill support after someone left. The other 2 bladesworns i encountered last week were doing less than half the damage i was on boss fights because they clearly couldn't figure out how to weave dragonslashes in while avoiding mechanics.

The only things getting anywhere close to competing on dps with me and that other good bladesworn player were mechanists and condi virtuosos

 

People keep parroting the stupid "only good at hitting golems" line every time someone brings up bladesworn being the top power dps but that line comes from a place of ignorance and pessimism 

If you actually learn how to utilize bladesworns kit you can pump those numbers in actual encounters and maintain good dps uptime. (WITHOUT eating unnecessary damage as well)

The dps you lose by sometimes using dragontrigger 2 or 3 instead of 1 is minimal comparatively to other classes because in the situations you do that other classes sometimes lose even more dps in those same situations because they dont have the ability to gapclose/range hit cleave  for 100k+ damage per target in an instant.

For example, on the keinang overlook strike mission during the golem/sniper phase you can use dragontrigger 2 while inside the hitbox of either the golem or sniper while switching targets to the other one and hit both of them for over 100k damage while simultaneously repositioning instead of just doing slightly more damage on just 1 of them 

Cleave potential with 2 and 3 is huge if you get creative with it

dont get me wrong, I've never said it's weak because it isn't, like u mentioned the cleave potential is huge(Dragon Trigger Slash mostly) + using the Action Cam, but once again, who enjoys this playstyle in all seriousness? It was fun, I played it a lot, but the MAJORITY doesnt and thats what ANET should really focus on. 

[anbujackson.9564]

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

I feel like bladesworn will take a hefty damage nerf in that case.

The fact that you are rooted for a long channel is the entire justification why DT is allowed to deal such ridiculous damage. If you now allow bladesworn to move (even if restricted) during that time, quite alot of that justification goes out the window.

I see what you mean. But imagine you are able to walk with 50/66 % less speed, unaffected by swiftness or superspeed. 

Walk around with cripple or chill the whole time and tell me how a little movement would make DT op. Thats so slow that any moving object will be out of your range in 3 seconds.

The point is that you just cant cancel DT imo. If its possible that you are not able to move or dodge in the first time while in Dt, then this is not necessary. Not sure if they can do this though.

[Kayberz.5346]

14 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Yes... I still dont know what exactly speaks against the idea of having restricted movement in DT? 

This is a high mobile combat we are talking about here, hell Anet describes it as such on twitter. Do you think a new player has fun charging an attack just to interrupt it in the end because he used any sort of movement? No.

Even long time players are not standing still while doing their rotation. I always keep moving left and right, back and forth while staying in (melee)range. It pains my muscle memory to do nothing for like 40% of my rotation time. Remember the old tempest meta with extra dps while moving? Now give those players bladesworn.

You described berserker as mindless spam. Maybe. But at least I can interrupt my rotation at any time and do mechs or rezz people. This is a pure nuke spec like you said. You need to be carried, just like weavers. And no one played condi weaver.

Sounds more like a l2p problem 

 

You shouldn't be doing  "nothing" 40% of your rotation 

The difference between the bladesworns that "get it" and the ones that do less than half the damage they could be doing is how well they utilize aegis/flicker step and their positioning to weave inbetween mechanics to keep a consistent uptime on dps.

That also means knowing when NOT to enter dragontrigger just following a blind muscle memory based rotaion. Timing is very important.

You can do fights like boneskinner at near benchmarks dps levels even though that fight constantly forces you to move and avoid big attacks if you time your abilities and position properly 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[anbujackson.9564]

10 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Sounds more like a l2p problem 

 

You shouldn't be doing  "nothing" 40% of your rotation 

The difference between the bladesworns that "get it" and the ones that do less than half the damage they could be doing is how well they utilize aegis/flicker step and their positioning to weave inbetween mechanics to keep a consistent uptime on dps.

That also means knowing when NOT to enter dragontrigger and just follow a blind muscle memory vased rotaion. Timing is very important 

Well, ye ok you spam (literally) DT4 and Dt5 to upkeep FaF stacks. If you keep those for mechanics like you said, then you are not pressing while charging your attack when there is no mechanic. And not pressing anything = you do nothing.

If you keep delaying dragon slashes, you waste dps.

Im curious though. Is there any spec you consider bad or not fun/flawed in its design?

Edited July 11, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[Kayberz.5346]

4 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Well, ye ok you spam (literally) DT4 and Dt5 to upkeep FaF stacks. If you keep those for mechanics like you said, then you are not pressing while charging your attack when there is no mechanic. And not pressing anything = you do nothing.

If you keep delaying dragon slashes, you waste dps.

Im curious though. Is there any spec you consider bad or not fun in its design?

In practice there usually is a reason to be pressing 4 and 5 (not just "spamming" them purely to upkeep stacks) 

You're not "wasting" dps by not pressing dragon trigger on cooldown. optimizing when you use it to safely be able to fully charge it and smoothly keep dpsing is what allows you to be top dps.

Currently with the way numbers are balanced right now your dps will still be comparable if not superior to other dps specs even if you dont maintain your optimal rotation perfectly uninterrupted. Its better to delay dragontrigger by 2 seconds to make sure it lands rather than to whiff midway through a chargeup forcing a full cooldown.

Every class experiences interruptions in their optimal rotations in order to deal with mechanics, thats not unique to bladesworn. It just often requires more active engagement on bladesworns part to compensate for it compared to ranged condi specs

 

There are plenty things i dont find enjoyable to play. But its all subjective, im not a fan of mechanists for example but i wouldn't say its "bad" in its design  (outside of balance), its just not a playstyle i enjoy.

[Jzaku.9765]

25 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Well, ye ok you spam (literally) DT4 and Dt5 to upkeep FaF stacks. If you keep those for mechanics like you said, then you are not pressing while charging your attack when there is no mechanic. And not pressing anything = you do nothing.

If you keep delaying dragon slashes, you waste dps.

Im curious though. Is there any spec you consider bad or not fun/flawed in its design?

The golem benchmark does that because its obviously trying to squeeze out as much DPS as possible. You similarly obviously don't do this on any actual fight that will pressure your positioning, all it's costing you is 1 stack of FAF and even then not entirely because you do end up using it (and getting the stack) eventually.

 

Which is why I resent the new rotation this patch is pushing with Tactics traitline and Dragonspike Mine - it's constantly displacing you and you have to recover the distance somehow which is incredibly janky and annoying. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Jzaku.9765