Chaos trait line

[Suyheuti.1732]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:20 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Please read what I had type before you make comments, I said chaos traitline is used in condi builds because of staff and which only staff can really capitalize on it. That build is a double staff build, do you see condi Virtuoso using chaos traitline...?

 

According to the Snowcrows, the highest DPS of axe mirage's is coming from Chaos traitline, instead of Illusions. It should be illusions, I ve mentioned in forums many times and saying again. Condi Axe Mirage's main traitlines should be Dueling/Illusions/Mirage like in the past. 

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

However i think another solution would be to have a grandmaster that helps with getting regeneration, a lot of condi traits in chaos are dependent on this but staff is one of the only viable option to self sustain regen.

Great response. To add to regeneration idea, tormenting runes are a great paring with the chaos trait line since they now provide regeneration.

7 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

According to the Snowcrows, the highest DPS of axe mirage's is coming from Chaos traitline, instead of Illusions. It should be illusions, I ve mentioned in forums many times and saying again. Condi Axe Mirage's main traitlines should be Dueling/Illusions/Mirage like in the past. 

I agree it should be.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Salt Mode.3780]

11 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

 

According to the Snowcrows, the highest DPS of axe mirage's is coming from Chaos traitline, instead of Illusions. It should be illusions, I ve mentioned in forums many times and saying again. Condi Axe Mirage's main traitlines should be Dueling/Illusions/Mirage like in the past. 

I've already answer this, yes on a golem it is the highest dps, but in nearly most to all fights condi virtuoso has the most consistent numbers across the board. 

[Kondor.2904]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I've already answer this, yes on a golem it is the highest dps, but in nearly most to all fights condi virtuoso has the most consistent numbers across the board. 

cVirt has a chaos build, which performs almost identical to non-chaos version, and has an even more 2head rotation. Chaos doesn't get used because you want to run staff in PvE, it's used because it's overstacked with dmg modifiers from several traits letting you slot up free stats on gear with no effort. 

It doesn't matter if you run staff with it or not, it will most likely be more optimal for a condition build than any other traitline with no dmg modifiers. Not having 120 cdmg stats because of not slotting staff is not as noticeable compared to what you get from the traitline anyway.  cVirt having a duel/illu build in general is an exception rather than a rule due to its weird crit capping concept and hybrid nature. Tf you argue about. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Kondor.2904

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Kondor.2904 said:

cVirt has a chaos build, which performs almost identical to non-chaos version, and has an even more 2head rotation. Chaos doesn't get used because you want to run staff in PvE, it's used because it's overstacked with dmg modifiers from several traits letting you slot up free stats on gear with no effort.  

Good response, I never noticed the build had a gear difference its a very new concept for meta builds. 

Honestly even with all the "this should be a defensive traitline" chaos and by extension illusion are both a great pairing. Dueling is very much the anomaly in condition builds like you said, since it's more focused on power damage. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Stavros.8249]

18 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

However i think another solution would be to have a grandmaster that helps with getting regeneration, a lot of condi traits in chaos are dependent on this but staff is one of the only viable option to self sustain regen. Would make the condi damage in chaos more reliable without having to depend on supports or take mirage elite spec. It even fits the "boon" part about chaos 😉

Chaos provide regen at the minor trait for 4s and has 8s CD. I think is enough, cause u will have full uptime in regen if u are in a party anyway.

But I could see one of the options in the grand master trait be a boon that u can share, so it help staff alac that give only two boons. 

In conclusion in grand master line, one should be for condi dps, one for support and one for pvp maybe

Edited August 11, 2022 by Stavros.8249

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Chaos is a supportive line that also boosts condi damage. Notice how it practically has 0 sources of damaging condies. Unlike illusions where you get extra burns on torch or torment on shatters.

Instead it boosts the condies you already have. 16% bonus duration and 10% bonus damage from condies under regen. 120 bonus condition damage (doubled if wielding a staff).

The grandmaster you seek is Bountiful Disillusionment - the F1 shatter gives you 5 might, boosting your condi damage even more. Can reap doble the benefit if paired with illusions and their adept trait Shatter Storm.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

The grandmaster you seek is Bountiful Disillusionment - the F1 shatter gives you 5 might, boosting your condi damage even more. Can reap doble the benefit if paired with illusions and their adept trait Shatter Storm.

Yes I totally agree, along with that you get stability so if you time your shatters right you can permanently maintain one stack.

This isn't to useful for axe or staff Mirage but can offer some insurance against a weird cc mechanics.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Stavros.8249]

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

The grandmaster you seek is Bountiful Disillusionment - the F1 shatter gives you 5 might, boosting your condi damage even more. Can reap doble the benefit if paired with illusions and their adept trait Shatter Storm.

But you have already 25 might if you are in a raid or a fractal. 

[godfat.2604]

Bountiful Disillusionment should be reverted back to be giving boons to allies. It’s nowhere from good even with that, given current standards.

[Ellon.4316]

8 hours ago, Stavros.8249 said:

Chaos provide regen at the minor trait for 4s and has 8s CD. I think is enough, cause u will have full uptime in regen if u are in a party anyway.

Maybe I'm stupid but i don't see that trait? There is metaphysical rejuvenation that's 10 seconds regen if you get hit while below 75% health (15 second internal cooldown), chaotic transference that gives 5 seconds with staff on 15 seconds internal cooldown and bountiful disillusionment with shatter 4 (30, 60, or 105 second cooldown). So most regen comes from staff or from getting hit, i usually try to dodge attacks 😉 .

Agree with the statement that it is not an issue in instanced content but i think it wouldn't be to bad if in open world you have a way to self-sustain regen to use the chaos traits. In instanced content you can then take a more utility/damage focused trait and in open world the build would still be able to benefit from the condi buffs by running a "less" optimal trait.

This is something that is easy to forget but not everything happens in instanced content. So having traits to help with providing boons, like bountiful disillusionment for might is not necessarily needed for raiding but it has it's place in the game, and it could be a valid option outside of raiding. Or it could be changed to share boons again which would be even better.

Spoiler

I just know someone is going to reply with "But in open world you can run with level 12 gear and 3 mismatched green runes and still solo everything so balancing for open world is bad and you should feel bad", or something similar 😛 

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

1 hour ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Maybe I'm stupid but i don't see that trait? There is metaphysical rejuvenation that's 10 seconds regen if you get hit while below 75% health (15 second internal cooldown), chaotic transference that gives 5 seconds with staff on 15 seconds internal cooldown and bountiful disillusionment with shatter 4 (30, 60, or 105 second cooldown). So most regen comes from staff or from getting hit, i usually try to dodge attacks 😉 .

Agree with the statement that it is not an issue in instanced content but i think it wouldn't be to bad if in open world you have a way to self-sustain regen to use the chaos traits. In instanced content you can then take a more utility/damage focused trait and in open world the build would still be able to benefit from the condi buffs by running a "less" optimal trait.

This is something that is easy to forget but not everything happens in instanced content. So having traits to help with providing boons, like bountiful disillusionment for might is not necessarily needed for raiding but it has it's place in the game, and it could be a valid option outside of raiding. Or it could be changed to share boons again which would be even better.

  Reveal hidden contents

I just know someone is going to reply with "But in open world you can run with level 12 gear and 3 mismatched green runes and still solo everything so balancing for open world is bad and you should feel bad", or something similar 😛 

 

It matters little anyway. As condi mesmer you'll likely run rune of tormenting, which after nerfs is average for most, but diamonds for us, as it provides us high regen uptime that chaos needs so badly.

Edited August 11, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Stavros.8249]

11 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Maybe I'm stupid but i don't see that trait? There is metaphysical rejuvenation that's 10 seconds regen if you get hit while below 75% health (15 second internal cooldown)

Yeah sry this trait. Didn't bother to look it up for actual values.