What's the point of power harbinger?

[Parpage.9867]

No really, what is the point of it? Pistol is clearly a condi weapon, plus core power weapons are just sad, why bother in the first place to try to make this spec something that can't be when you lack something so basic? We're fine in the condi and quickness department, but i can't stress enough how we lack a power spec (no, reaper is in a horrible and sad state so it doesn't count when an afk spec does more of him by just existing and your precious open world winterberry farmer reaper build can't tell me otherwise, but that's another issue). It has a pathetic dps and unless the devs don't do anything about weapon variety this thing will always be a meme.

 

https://dps.report/pBlO-20220812-143059_golem

Edited August 12, 2022 by Parpage.9867

[KrHome.1920]

Pistol is the definition of a hybrid weapon and harbinger shroud as well. Both have fairly high multipliers and apply damaging conditions (torment, poison and if traited the machine gun shroud auto attack applies also a lot of burning)

This is not affected by the to your opinion too low damage numbers. You are confusing mechanic with effectivity.

Edited August 12, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[Parpage.9867]

14 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Pistol is the definition of a hybrid weapon and harbinger shroud as well. Both have fairly high multipliers and apply damaging conditions (torment, poison and if traited the machine gun shroud auto attack applies also a lot of burning)

This is not affected by the to your opinion too low damage numbers. You are confusing mechanic with effectivity.

Imagine lecturing me about mechanics ignoring completely everything else that i've said and then telling that pistol is a hybrid weapon lmao

[Xerxez.7361]

If they could replace the Power Side with pulsing Alac that would be lovely. Then we could choose between Alac or Quickness Support for Harbinger.

[Devas.8104]

Disclaimer: this is post is from a PVP standpoint

 

Upon release, power harbinger could reliably crit for ~15k dmg (full zerk gear + appropriate glass canon build + full blight/might stacking) from a single use of shroud 3 or shroud 4.

The trade off was the absolute lack of any kind of hp or sustain - if your burst gets dodged/bubbled/evaded, or if someone focuses you, you got deleted. 

 

It got nerfed again and again by the genius ANet balance team, with all shroud skill power coefficients being divided by up to 2 (!!!) without anything in return in one patch, then cope power coefficient, cope duration, death perception -20% crit (you can't critcap anymore without sacrificing a lot of power), ... and anet didn't give it any compensation whatsoever in any patch since release.

 

The nerfs kept being fueled by people crying about condi harbingers and them being unkillable.

 

Good job anet balance team

[Nimon.7840]

7 hours ago, Devas.8104 said:

Disclaimer: this is post is from a PVP standpoint

 

Upon release, power harbinger could reliably crit for ~15k dmg (full zerk gear + appropriate glass canon build + full blight/might stacking) from a single use of shroud 3 or shroud 4.

The trade off was the absolute lack of any kind of hp or sustain - if your burst gets dodged/bubbled/evaded, or if someone focuses you, you got deleted. 

 

It got nerfed again and again by the genius ANet balance team, with all shroud skill power coefficients being divided by up to 2 (!!!) without anything in return in one patch, then cope power coefficient, cope duration, death perception -20% crit (you can't critcap anymore without sacrificing a lot of power), ... and anet didn't give it any compensation whatsoever in any patch since release.

 

The nerfs kept being fueled by people crying about condi harbingers and them being unkillable.

 

Good job anet balance team

To add on: now you have to use shroud 3+4, but have a way smaller window for that because you want to use elite elixir before you do so (and the duration of boons gut gutted). And if you fail, you wasted your elite elixir used both mobility skills and will be standing in melee range with zero defenses left.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i think when the upcoming patch hits, if you can incorporate buffed staff into build then you can increase shroud based skill dmg by 10% (cuz harbinger and core shroud are weird and use currently equipped wep strength). also i cant tell what 3rd utility skill is used but if signet of spite then its important to note that it doesnt work in shroud unless traited and that taking another utility skill might be better (maybe another elixir?)

i doubt it would be that much better though

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@ ^ - pretty sure these buffs are PvE only, so not much changing for pvp harbs.

Update: Point of power harb is deletion of enemy. Seriously, their burst after landing shroud 5 hurts more than condi harb's. It's easier for them to burst targets.

Edited August 20, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:55 PM, Parpage.9867 said:

No really, what is the point of it? Pistol is clearly a condi weapon, plus core power weapons are just sad, why bother in the first place to try to make this spec something that can't be when you lack something so basic? We're fine in the condi and quickness department, but i can't stress enough how we lack a power spec (no, reaper is in a horrible and sad state so it doesn't count when an afk spec does more of him by just existing and your precious open world winterberry farmer reaper build can't tell me otherwise, but that's another issue). It has a pathetic dps and unless the devs don't do anything about weapon variety this thing will always be a meme.

 

https://dps.report/pBlO-20220812-143059_golem

i think harbringer could be a decent power / condi build, because its playstile is diferent from other necromancers, on reaper you have better survival, and thus a harbringer being more squeasy but with more dmg could be good.

Now is reaper in a bad spot? yeah, it needs more dmg, i saw that it gets some weapon improvements but i dont main it so i dont know how much that changes.

My idea would be reaper does 35-36k dmg, while a well played harbringer does 38k or so, i said well played because i think playing harbringer should be more risky and thus you can die easyer and loose a lot of dmg if youre not carefull, while reaper can do less dmg in an easyer and more consistent way, thatd be the way to go for me.

[Asum.4960]

52 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

My idea would be reaper does 35-36k dmg, while a well played harbringer does 38k or so, i said well played because i think playing harbringer should be more risky and thus you can die easyer and loose a lot of dmg if youre not carefull, while reaper can do less dmg in an easyer and more consistent way, thatd be the way to go for me.

I think while that general idea is right, you also have to consider melee vs range, as well as how low actual pressure in most even Raid like content is vs. the presence and power level of supports. 

While Harbinger may lose between ~0-40% of their DPS if they have to move out a bit for mechanics, depending on where they happen to be in their rotation (similarly or even less on Scourge), Reaper probably loses close to 100%. 

If you or the group don't fail a crucial mechanic, neither is going to die - if they do, it doesn't really matter what you are on. 

Plus there is the additional limitation of Reaper not being able to be healed in Shroud - as well as the fact that you really don't want to use Shroud to actually soak damage, as that would cause your DPS to plummet drastically.

 

Even for solo play and challenges, being able to kite around freely is huge in terms of survivability/sustainability. 

 

So even if Reaper and Harbinger benched equally on the Golem, Reaper would still be behind in practice, only having a survivability edge in niche no-heal setups, but at the cost of DPS still. 

 

To somewhat stay on topic, there was plenty of feedback on Power Harbinger, including mine, as far back as EoD Beta 1, in that it's largely going to be completely useless in PvE, and especially with with the unhealthy design of Elixir of Ambition, be potentially extremely unhealthy in PvP - until nerfed to be useless there too. 

Shocking how that played out over the following year.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I think the point of Power Harbinger is to give a power option for players who haven't bought HoT.