Restructuring Beta Feedback (One Lone Developer's Perspective)

[Gotejjeken.1267]

As a point of reference, I've been a (mostly) backend software developer for a little over a decade now.  Wanted to consolidate some opinions into a single topic, because frankly these beta tests are very confusing to me.

Firstly, the big one for me is the upcoming Steam release.  There will be an influx of new players that aren't used to testing development changes on live servers, which I fear could lead to a lot of ill will if done improperly.  Nothing would anger me faster as a new player than to find a guild and start playing WvW only to be accidently matchmade as an individual for an entire week.  

There also needs to be better communication around what these betas actually are.  Blog posts notifying us they are coming are great and all, but the vast population doesn't know they are publicly testing backend changes at this point.  They think these are content previews / early access and only know their game experience is getting interrupted for little value to them in return.

Since it would be hard to communicate 'betas are bug testing not early access' to an average user in written form, I think it may be beneficial to hit some of the smaller issues first that may cause confusion. 

A big one here is the guild panel showing entirely different borderlands than you actually get placed in.  This is doubly confusing as there are two alpine borderlands and if neither of them matches where it says your guild is you have to blind guess.  Then you have to remember this information, which really shouldn't be a thing.  

I guess this is what is confusing to me, little things generally shouldn't be this hard to fix and would have a big impact in terms of general user goodwill.  In fact, with the issue above a lot of people may mistakenly think they are being mis-linked but it's really just a UI issue and so a lot of the feedback is stale or bad to begin with.  They may not want to go the extra mile to sleuth out what is exactly going on, they just assume they can't play with their guild and log off.

Another sticking point is the guild selection itself.  Why is this a separate window in the first place? Why not just have whatever guild you are representing be who you get sorted with? This way the only way to get matched as individual would be not have a guild or be representing a personal guild (which is an edge case in my book).  The only logical reason I can think of is down the line we're going to be locked into a 'WvW guild' for a certain period of time--which I can see backfiring.  There are lots of reasons people may want to change guilds at any moment and arbitrarily locking that down can't end well.  I'd hope instead there will be a dynamic system in place that resorts you anytime you change guilds.  

Finally, we are four betas in and essentially nothing has changed to the outside user.  Understandably there are time constraints, deadlines, and all kinds of other not fun internal things, but really, it'd be helpful to have at least one user impacting change in the next beta.  Even if its tangential like the scaling rewards system--that would be way better than the exact same experience eight months in to test a change that is backend only.  Especially since these are non-optional betas and you will get players such as myself that will just sit the week out, because helping test backend things the first or second time is fine, but by the fourth it's just grating.

[Diku.2546]

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It's going to be unfortunate for Steam players that do not have the time or patience to wait for ANet to get their WvW development under control.

This cornerstone game mode needs to engage players to return to GW2 through self-creating content that players make themselves.  It's like going to the movies (Living Stories) at the shopping mall . . . then going to hang out at the bars & arcade centers of (WvW).

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As a Game Director . . . I can say that ANet is stuck in Chapter 2 on Step 11 on my Road Map to evolving the WvW game mode, but it's unfortunate that ANet doesn't have a Complete & Posted Road Map.

ANet tends to cherry pick suggestions from this forum & miss critical details.  i.e. - Weekend Beta Event & Not Full Week.

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CHAPTER 2 - REDESIGN WvW

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064948/#Comment_1064948

STEPS TO RE-DESIGN - WvW Into WvG

1.   Put current WvW game mode into Maintenance - No Changes Allowed

2.   Re-Focus Development Team's Direction - See [ Chapter 3 - New Game Mode & Vision ]

3.   Create a Parallel WvG game mode

4.   Develop WvG to replace WvW in the steps outlined in Chapter 2

5.   Long-term goal is to preserve ALL Server Team Identities & Communities

6.   Initially Create 4 Globes for this New WvG game mode to Test & Develop "Proof of Concept"

7.   Remove ALL Design Mechanics from the Base maps that WvW uses & Re-Purpose them for WvG

8.   Next, Layer back Design Mechanics as needed for these New WvG Globes - See [ Chapter 7 - WvG Overview ]

9.   Use of Globe Raiding is critical to creating Match-Ups Players weekly pick themselves

10. Later Create More WvG Globes to replace ALL existing servers after Confirming "Proof of Concept"

11. New WvG game mode is "slowly" beta tested during "weekend events" where WvW is turned off

12. New WvG game mode eventually swapped in to replace Old WvW

13. Old WvW is then allowed to gracefully fade away

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REDESIGN - Done in Phases & Runs in Parallel to WvW

PHASE 1 of 3 - Build 4 Beta WvG Based Globes - Not Connected to WvW

PHASE 2 of 3 - Open 4 Beta WvG Based Globes for players to pick as their Home Globe To Test - Not Connected to WvW

PHASE 3 of 3 - Repeat Phase 1  & 2 Until there are enough Globes for all Regions - NA / EU / AS - Not Connected to WvW

Yours truly,
Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Diku.2546

[Dawdler.8521]

On 8/19/2022 at 7:19 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

A big one here is the guild panel showing entirely different borderlands than you actually get placed in.  This is doubly confusing as there are two alpine borderlands and if neither of them matches where it says your guild is you have to blind guess.  Then you have to remember this information, which really shouldn't be a thing.  

I guess this is what is confusing to me, little things generally shouldn't be this hard to fix and would have a big impact in terms of general user goodwill.  In fact, with the issue above a lot of people may mistakenly think they are being mis-linked but it's really just a UI issue and so a lot of the feedback is stale or bad to begin with.  They may not want to go the extra mile to sleuth out what is exactly going on, they just assume they can't play with their guild and log off.

Another sticking point is the guild selection itself.  Why is this a separate window in the first place? Why not just have whatever guild you are representing be who you get sorted with? This way the only way to get matched as individual would be not have a guild or be representing a personal guild (which is an edge case in my book).  The only logical reason I can think of is down the line we're going to be locked into a 'WvW guild' for a certain period of time--which I can see backfiring.  There are lots of reasons people may want to change guilds at any moment and arbitrarily locking that down can't end well.  I'd hope instead there will be a dynamic system in place that resorts you anytime you change guilds.  

As a developer, you should understand both points and the way they choose to do it:

- World restructure teams during betas is temporarily slapped on top of existing worlds because normal WvW need to continue as is the next week, with the tiers and names intacts. If you "fix" that little bug before it goes live permanently, you break normal WvW the next week.

- They've already posted concepts on how it would look different when implemented, the teams tab is just a temporary way of selecting your WvW guild without modifying existing UI because again, just like above, you'd otherwise break the normal UI the next week.

It may not be to your liking but that's how it works with a live vs test enviroment which is actually still within the live enviroment. You want to flip it on/off without disruptions. Why is there no "full" beta version separate from the main game, kind of like how the expansion betas work by logging in to another server with a character slot? Oh that's simple. They probably havent even begun, they're just spinning around in circles trying to get an algorithm together for alliance/guild/random assignment of teams. But that's another matter. 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

As a developer, you should understand both points and the way they choose to do it:

- World restructure teams during betas is temporarily slapped on top of existing worlds because normal WvW need to continue as is the next week, with the tiers and names intacts. If you "fix" that little bug before it goes live permanently, you break normal WvW the next week.

- They've already posted concepts on how it would look different when implemented, the teams tab is just a temporary way of selecting your WvW guild without modifying existing UI because again, just like above, you'd otherwise break the normal UI the next week.

It may not be to your liking but that's how it works with a live vs test enviroment which is actually still within the live enviroment. You want to flip it on/off without disruptions. Why is there no "full" beta version separate from the main game, kind of like how the expansion betas work by logging in to another server with a character slot? Oh that's simple. They probably havent even begun, they're just spinning around in circles trying to get an algorithm together for alliance/guild/random assignment of teams. But that's another matter. 

 

 

Well yeah, I think by the end of that post you agree with me though. 

They really need a way to separate live from test, or if they can't then put the player facing features first to get people to want to test.  

And I do understand both ways, I've seen it.  Testing while impacting your production environment is literally the worst thing you can do, but here its somewhat excusable as we're talking about a decade old game.  

[One more for the road.8950]

If anything, Steam players are so used to games never coming out of beta or early access but still earning money that it'll be business as usual.

[Morden Kain.3489]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:51 AM, One more for the road.8950 said:

If anything, Steam players are so used to games never coming out of beta or early access but still earning money that it'll be business as usual.

I want to laugh, cry, and like your post all at the same time.  It is so true.  Of course, I am still waiting on Star Citizen to come out of Alpha... and that has been nigh on eight years??  We had GW2 come out seven years after GW1.