Here what you're saving from buying the complete collection- $0.00

[Sunchaser.9854]

From what i can see, trying to filter out some of the chaff for productive steam points.

 

The wants: 

o F2p players seem to want to experience the game at their own pace, and while not minding the help of some veterans on bag spaces/food, items. etc. Seem to be annoyed when people start 'killstealing' or stalking them helping, so maybe giving them space to experience the game, but going from 2 starter f2p slots to 4 might help them.

o The f2p mount trial expiring 10 hours in seems regarded as feeling "horrible!!" for new players. While being better than no mount before, seems to be a pain point that makes people quit instead of keep playing. They also want to wait for a 15$ pof sale, but the game launched with no steam sales.

- Perhaps adding a 50% pof anniversary sale to steam might change reviews or incentivize new players to join and mount and convert into paying members. Or perhaps extending the raptor trial to become a 1 month trial that'd be repeatable once per year. Just to give them a taste of the mount and convert into paying members later? 

- Perhaps the 10 hour trial could include a skimmer and a roller beetle as well. Just to let them have more fun and show the unique ground based travel. And maybe a note when it expires maybe something going like. "We hope you enjoyed seeing these mounts. If you ever convert to being a member with the path of fire expansion, for only 15-30$ you could have these for life and enjoy these fun and versatile mounts!" 

 

o F2p can't buy many items from the auction house for botter protections. Alright. But maybe it should be relaxed a bit for leveling food so they could get xp buffs and sorted bags so they could sort their inventory.

o The f2p game has a unremovable "PURCHASE EXPANSION NOW!" tag in the top left for the f2p experience, which while making it easier to purchase, could really use a click to hide option. At least the first time each login. it really makes the f2p experience feel much more in your face than heroic edition.

o Perhaps f2p could also remove f2p restrictions by buying 5-10$ worth of gems or items, etc? So that way, even if someone is just playing the 1-80 game or waiting for a sale, they could clear their f2p trial restrictions waiting for a pof/ls sale by buying some gems, and then waiting for the expansions to go on sale, instead of losing a potentially paying member.

o One common complaint seems to be wvw and pvp not having updates for years as well as raids/dungeons. Perhaps it might be time to perhaps look at bugfixing or adding a new dungeon or some wvw/pvp improvements? For example, condi classes can't hurt the frequent immobile object classes of gargoyle heads over power classes. But for game mechanics, why should one game mace attack do 0 damage to another mace attack just because one is condi and one is power? Who cares if a gargoyle trap head 'bleeds' from being smashed in the face with a mace or not. You could rename bleed 'rust' or 'puncturing impact' on dungeon objects at least so half the specs in the game damage them. 🙂 It could also be really fun to take a look at the dungeon/raiding experience to keep it up to par with other games. Though.. 11th year is the charm(?) (Limited updates in 9 years past launch) 

 

Once again, all these points are made to find and filter the commonly listed pain points of the game to figure out how we could experience them, with the intention of trying to helpfully interpret steam player feedback to make a better game as fans, etc. 

[Miragen.6127]

10 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You think it's infinite--but storage costs money.  Just because digital goods are not tangible doesn't mean they are pure profit.

 

Storage of what, they don't need to keep a million copies of the game stored somewhere, they can sell 1 or a 1000 copies and it doesn't change anything on their end, they don't need to sell a copy at a set value to recover cost and any sale is going to be profit for them.

 

[Freya.9075]

2 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Paying for games doesn't mean paying for any game, hobbies costing money doesn't mean there is a limit to what people are comfortable with spending.

No one said everything had to be free.

ppl who feel gw2 is not worth paying for will just have a free to play account or move on. And ppl who feel it’s worth the money will buy it. It’s no different then ppl paying for whatever hobby they got. Gw2 is not an expensive game when you look at all you get from the price it has

[Miragen.6127]

1 minute ago, Freya.9075 said:

ppl who feel gw2 is not worth paying for will just have a free to play account or move on. And ppl who feel it’s worth the money will buy it. It’s no different then ppl paying for whatever hobby they got. Gw2 is not an expensive game when you look at all you get from the price it has

 

Which is great if you could see all you get, which you do not, which is the whole point. Like trying to convince someone how nice your home is but you make them stand outside.

Stop looking at the game from a player perspective who knows where the value is at and look at it from someone who has no idea what they're getting but asked to pay a $100.

And yes, people will move on, but apparently that's not a problem.

[Sunchaser.9854]

If you want a expensive game, i remember getting a heart attack from mtg and warhammer. I was from hearthstone and the idea of someone spending 100$ to play a expensive deck 100 times in 1 month was atrocious. Over in magic the gathering, i met people where 'entry level' was a 100-1000$ deck with 5000-10000$+ spending over life just to play 2-3 games a month to stomp someone in world over a card game with unblockable minions or new player stompers.

I think the person i played had a game shop deck specifically designed to have unblockable 5/1 and 10/1 attackers who couldn't be blocked with anti flying and kept summoning another 5/1 for each attack they made just since it crushed anyone at the shop who didn't make a deck just to counter his. 

That said, 100$ is still a lot to sell to a new player to get started. I remember advocating a lot for budget minded people to try 15$ pof + hot when it goes on sale and look for a anniv sale. But people kept saying "encouraging people not to buy the full 100$ game might be dishonest trolling!", so i held back. then it was "OMG, this game is 100$!?!? i am so not going to play it, that's such a horrible entry value?" So really it's a head's you troll, tails players don't join, I don't know man.

But i hope they at least consider like a sale soon for it. The other anniversary sale events started a month earlier and had great stuff. There's only 1-2 times a year living worlds go on sale and that's the march sale and anniversary sale. I was as hyped as anyone else for 10 and there could still be stuff coming but man. I hope it's coming.. 

[Freya.9075]

Just now, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Which is great if you could see all you get, which you do not, which is the whole point. Like trying to convince someone how nice your home is but you make them stand outside.

Stop looking at the game from a player perspective who knows where the value is at and look at it from someone who has no idea what they're getting but asked to pay a $100.

And yes, people will move on, but apparently that's not a problem.

When I plan to buy a game I research it. Google it for reviews and look at some pictures or videos to get some information about what I’m buying. Which most players who values their money would do I assume. If you do not do that and feel you bought the cat in the bag, it’s cause you didn’t look at what you bought. It would be like buying pants without trying them and they don’t fit you when you get home. 

I once was that new player who didn’t know anything about the game. We all were at one point. It was not an issue for me at all. I played since i enjoyed the game and because of that it had value for me. 

anet is doing good as it is now so ppl moving on is not an issue at this time. And gamers leaving games after a short trial is normal with any game. As a previous game hopper I know all about that. Gw2 has a healthy population. That doesn’t mean it will always stay that way,  but for a game this age they are doing something right. 

[Miragen.6127]

4 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

When I plan to buy a game I research it. Google it for reviews and look at some pictures or videos to get some information about what I’m buying. Which most players who values their money would do I assume. If you do not do that and feel you bought the cat in the bag, it’s cause you didn’t look at what you bought. It would be like buying pants without trying them and they don’t fit you when you get home. 

 

I mean if I see a pair of pants at least twice as expensive as all the other pants for no obvious reason I just keep walking like most people would, projecting your own approach on the average player also isn't really realistic.

 

4 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I once was that new player who didn’t know anything about the game. We all were at one point. It was not an issue for me at all. I played since i enjoyed the game and because of that it had value for me. 

anet is doing good as it is now so ppl moving on is not an issue at this time. And gamers leaving games after a short trial is normal with any game. As a previous game hopper I know all about that. Gw2 has a healthy population. That doesn’t mean it will always stay that way,  but for a game this age they are doing something right. 

 

Probably when that game wasn't 10 years old, and it was a brand new game for $60 or even free like 2 years after that.

And I don't know what their player numbers are, doesn't mean you can sit back and not utilize opportunities to draw in new players.

[Freya.9075]

7 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

I mean if I see a pair of pants at least twice as expensive as all the other pants for no obvious reason I just keep walking like most people would, projecting your own approach on the average player also isn't really realistic.

 

 

Probably when that game wasn't 10 years old, and it was a brand new game for $60 or even free like 2 years after that.

And I don't know what their player numbers are, doesn't mean you can sit back and not utilize opportunities to draw in new players.

Defining what the average player is won’t really get us anywhere with this as it is no way to tell what the average player is. 
 

If you want numbers I suggest you take a look at their newest number chart thingy. (Yes thingy as I don’t know what they are called 👀)  edit: infographic! English is my third language so excuse my ignorance 😛

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/celebrating-a-decade-of-guild-wars-2/

Edited August 26, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Miragen.6127]

Just now, Freya.9075 said:

Defining what the average player is won’t really get us anywhere with this as it is no way to tell what the average player is. 
 

If you want numbers I suggest you take a look at their newest number chart thingy. (Yes thingy as I don’t know what they are called 👀) 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/celebrating-a-decade-of-guild-wars-2/

 

I think it's safe to say that the average player is not used to $100 price tags on Steam, the only time you ever really see that on games is Ubisoft with their ultimate deluxe pre-order editions or whatever, and looking at the low Steam numbers for GW2 that are far below the other games, despite the others not being free isn't really showing that the average player is excited with what is on offer, and you can find that worded on the forums, Reddit and elsewhere.

 

The community seems to believe GW2s cost is entirely justified based on what they know about the game, but anyone who doesn't play the game does not know that, people don't spend a $100 because people say it's worth it.

 

Nothing about what you can see from the outside justifies a 10 year old game charging more money than 99% of games on Steam.

[Freya.9075]

1 minute ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

I think it's safe to say that the average player is not used to $100 price tags on Steam, the only time you ever really see that on games is Ubisoft with their ultimate deluxe pre-order editions or whatever, and looking at the low Steam numbers for GW2 that are far below the other games, despite the others not being free isn't really showing that the average player is excited with what is on offer, and you can find that worded on the forums, Reddit and elsewhere.

 

The community seems to believe GW2s cost is entirely justified based on what they know about the game, but anyone who doesn't play the game does not know that, people don't spend a $100 because people say it's worth it.

 

Nothing about what you can see from the outside justifies a 10 year old game charging more money than 99% of games on Steam.

Any source for that statement with average player on steam? Or is it assumptions you feel fit your own narrative? As a steam player myself I’ve seen plenty games costing the same amount or more. Older and newer games.
 

The age of a game has nothing to say when it’s still updating and creating content. It means the cost for older content is still viable and needs to be paid by the company. It’s not like single player games which has a one time cost until it’s fully developed and then it’s just money pouring in from their efforts.

Expecting mmos that are still in development to be a lot cheaper when time goes by is not realistic. And they did make the game cheaper by including hot when you buy pof. So claiming  they don’t lower their prices over time is false. The question is should they lower it more? I think that’s not a good idea as they need money to make more content. 

[Miragen.6127]

3 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Any source for that statement with average player on steam? Or is it assumptions you feel fit your own narrative? As a steam player myself I’ve seen plenty games costing the same amount or more. Older and newer games.

 

Source for what exactly?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

The age of a game has nothing to say when it’s still updating and creating content. It means the cost for older content is still viable and needs to be paid by the company. It’s not like single player games which has a one time cost until it’s fully developed and then it’s just money pouring in from their efforts.

 

It's still an older game that isn't on par with current games being released, almost every game lowers in value as the years go by.

And GW2 has a cash shop for that very reason anyways.

 

3 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Expecting mmos that are still in development to be a lot cheaper when time goes by is not realistic. And they did make the game cheaper by including hot when you buy pof. So claiming  they don’t lower their prices over time is false. The question is should they lower it more? I think that’s not a good idea as they need money to make more content. 

 

Making sales is how you make money, not making sales is not how you make money.

Selling 10 games for 50$ is a lot better than selling 1 or 2 for $100, in the short run and in the long run.

I'm not saying the game needs to permanently be cheaper, I'm saying they need to go on sale, especially during pivotal moments like a 10 year celebration and Steam release where every single other game would have had a sale.

 

[Freya.9075]

3 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Source for what exactly?

 

 

 

It's still an older game that isn't on par with current games being released, almost every game lowers in value as the years go by.

And GW2 has a cash shop for that very reason anyways.

 

 

Making sales is how you make money, not making sales is not how you make money.

Selling 10 games for 50$ is a lot better than selling 1 or 2 for $100, in the short run and in the long run.

I'm not saying the game needs to permanently be cheaper, I'm saying they need to go on sale, especially during pivotal moments like a 10 year celebration and Steam release where every single other game would have had a sale.

 

Source for the average steam player as you claimed. 
 

For value of older games, if you buy wow full collection you pay more then gw2 bundle. And you have to pay for subscription to keep playing it. Anet bundled the content for players who wants to buy all at once. If they do not want that, they have the option to buy each expansion separately.
 

They do have sales occasionally, but they obviously saw no reason to have one at this time which they have their reasons for. wether that is good or bad is not upto us to decide. We can have opinions about it, but that’s all it is. 

[Miragen.6127]

3 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Source for the average steam player as you claimed. 

 

Still don't know what you mean, anyone who uses Steam will know that a $100 is not a common sight.

 

3 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

For value of older games, if you buy wow full collection you pay more then gw2 bundle. And you have to pay for subscription to keep playing it. Anet bundled the content for players who wants to buy all at once. If they do not want that, they have the option to buy each expansion separately.
 

They do have sales occasionally, but they obviously saw no reason to have one at this time which they have their reasons for. wether that is good or bad is not upto us to decide. We can have opinions about it, but that’s all it is. 

 

What is the WoW full collection? WoW makes you pay for the latest expansions which is probably $60 but right now you don't have to buy anything and just pay $15 monthly to play the latest content without extra cost, even with buying the expansions I don't see how that exceeds a $100+.

 

I mean if you don't have a sale now I don't know when you will, it will only be less effective as time goes on, Twitch drops will end, articles won't be written about it anymore, people won't be talking about the Steam release.. you have to capitalize on the momentum and that is now pretty much gone.

 

Quote

the most popular game price was $10, but the games that generated the most revenue on Steam were priced at $30 (25.56 percent of all revenue for the year) and $60 (18.49 percent of all revenue.)

 

Just go on Steam and look for a popular category, with action there are 52.000 results, maybe a 100 or so are above $100, which includes software, massive bundles, entire franchise packs, special editions, collector editions etc.

$100 games are not popular, shouldn't be a surprise.

[Sunchaser.9854]

For anyone wondering why steam players are so stingy. Game is literally a game where triple AAA play for life but singleplayer games are sold, sometimes GIVEN by the dozen in 1$ humble bundles, to the point i literally have all bioshocks, all assassin's creeds, dishonored 1+2, witcher 1-3, the entire tomb raider collection, GTA 5, as well as 600 random games for under 100$ total spent as well as a +200-400$ dollar profit for playing tf2 for literally 5$. Yes. You could at one point of time buy +200-400$ profit of games on steam for tf2 keys you could get trading hats and afking/idling for 10 scrap a week. 

I'd argue it might be debatable that for steam, players are comparing gw2 to games like Skyrim or maybe even experiences like ff14's lvl 1-60 trial with 0 "BUY EXPANSION NOW. YOU HAVE TRADING RESTRICTIONS. tHIS MOUNT will be taken away in 10 hours. But you also cannot buy any items, food, or sorting bags for 4 days or remove this ad banner taking up your screen.

Old players if they downloaded steam to leave a review should try playing 1 game with a unlinked account and take a look at hew new player experience. Even the heroic 1-80 vs f2p 1-80 will feel remarkably limited and a much worse experience even if it's a cosmetic even if it's a small as a "FREE EDITION USER: PLEASE PAY TO UPGRADE" text over a product trial.

Whether or not 1-80 is a lot of content on the f2p market (and imo, to be fair to gw2, it easily could be a free 50-500+ hr experience vs 4-8 hrs unique of wow's 1-20 trial and 1-20 osrs f2p with 2000-5000 hr if you want to level rc 1-99 as a sadistic ultimate iron man who can't bank and needs to drop all gear, walk to varrock, mine 28 rune essence, walk back and runecraft 1 inventory of runes.

For purposes of new player retention, right or wrong, new player experiences might heavily matter to getting new players to come to a game successfully and growing legions of future players and gw2 gamers. I'd argue not something like everything for free, but maybe a 50% off pof sale on steam and for the anniversary, as well as the usual 20-40% off living worlds and the steam living world pack might be nice.

We need to remember we're competing with a audience used to buy to own games forever and maybe literal 100s of games being given for free or even as epic game / unisoft entire assassin's creed packs.

 Also it's also a audience that gets 1-2 free games a week just for having the epic games store installed as well. (Yookalaylee, Brother:Tale of two sons, Tomb Raider, Borderlands 3, Bioshock Complete collection, Tomb Raider Triology, Darksiders 1+2, Hitman, Just Cause 4, Watchdogs 1+2, Wolf among us, etc. + 100s of unnamed indie games). Etc.

We need to remember to get non gw2/mmorpg players into steam, we need to sell gw2 to people who've never played it before or want to try a mmorpg / Already have another mmorpg. Steam has routine 50-90% off triple AAA single player games (Skyrim, bioshock, dishonored 1+2, Assassin's creed), etc. Free games from the epic game store, (some VERY quite good, but not mmorpgs), as well as other mmorpgs (not buy for life but sub).

We got to sell gw2's virtues like mounts or buy for life or like, try advertising them to try 15$ pof first before they dump 100$ on one of the 600 games they might not play. But it might really help to have a sale right now, or listen to their experiences to improve(?) the game, potentially, (maybe?)) 

[Labjax.2465]

11 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Well I don't know what you are reading, I see most people just discussing the price, thinking they should have been a discount, comment saying it should be $80, people defending the current pricing, something about privileged wallets, more defending of the pricing and Anet, talking about LW should be free or bundled with the expansions.. you know, free, like it was for most people calling others entitled for wanting it and I think there was one other guy that said it should be free for others, even when he bought it, which is the opposite from being entitled and a rare example of a person who doesn't maintain the mindset of  'If I suffer, you also have to suffer'.

 

I'm one of those people. I paid for most of LW and I still think it should be made free*. And the part that makes me laugh is how there'll be people who got it for essentially free (just by having bought the game at some point and logging in during the right time) who want it to be expensive because something something it's a lot of content and something something the cost of other games. All I can do is laugh or I'd want to cry at how backwards it all is. There are people who got to enjoy LW for years at no extra cost, during peak times when the maps were *the* new content and were booming and active, some of them very lucrative farms, and some of those same people want new customers to have to pay full price for what are (depending on region and time of day you play) borderline dead maps in a 10 year old game.

*or "free" with expansions

[Gorem.8104]

5 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Most gamers have no problem paying for games. They are in control of what they’re buying. It is a safe buy and they see the price tag. It is good value. If I go out one night with my friends at a bar, I will spend more money that night then if I buy the collection from steam with all the content. For thousands of hour playtime that’s a pretty good deal in my book. 
 

also, gaming is a hobby. Hobbies costs money. You would not go to a gym and expect to use their stuff without paying for it. Since it costs to maintain the service they charge whatever they see fit. That goes for any hobby and business models. Their employees does not work for free  and their equipments costs money. 

..... hahahahahahaha... hahahahaha what? hahahaha 

Most gamers wait for Steam sales to buy games, most gamers try and give money to certain devs (hello Nintendo) and then find out Nintendo doesn't offer their legacy content for some reason so the only method is free methods, especially these days, most gamers play free stuff. See how that doesn't work, cannot just say "most gamers" and just apply it to everything 🙂

Who pays full prices for games these days? hah. GW2 is doing the exact thing it needs to do to make sure the least amount of players show up. Due to the way they did the pricing, some countries legit cannot even afford the expansion purchase prices. There was no reason to launch GW2 to steam without a sale going, they seem to have done it without a sale to make sure no one picks up the game.  There's a price limit to these things now, games cannot be too expensive. GW2 on Steam is too expensive. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Freya.9075]

4 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Still don't know what you mean, anyone who uses Steam will know that a $100 is not a common sight.

 

 

What is the WoW full collection? WoW makes you pay for the latest expansions which is probably $60 but right now you don't have to buy anything and just pay $15 monthly to play the latest content without extra cost, even with buying the expansions I don't see how that exceeds a $100+.

 

I mean if you don't have a sale now I don't know when you will, it will only be less effective as time goes on, Twitch drops will end, articles won't be written about it anymore, people won't be talking about the Steam release.. you have to capitalize on the momentum and that is now pretty much gone.

 

 

Just go on Steam and look for a popular category, with action there are 52.000 results, maybe a 100 or so are above $100, which includes software, massive bundles, entire franchise packs, special editions, collector editions etc.

$100 games are not popular, shouldn't be a surprise.

If you go to wow homepage and see their full collection price you’ll notice it costs over 100 dollars. For all their content and a couple months subscription. 
 

Who’s to say the bundle is what anet will sell most? I would think ppl most would buy one expansion first if they want to check it out more, and buy them over time if they’re stingy about money. Nothing wrong with that. The bundle is just an option if you want to pay for all at once. If you look at the popular games on steam, most of them do have several dlc options that cost a lot as well. It’s not that rare to see bundles after bundles with steep prices on steam. And those bundles are there for a reason. Ppl buy them. 
 

[Freya.9075]

26 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

..... hahahahahahaha... hahahahaha what? hahahaha 

Most gamers wait for Steam sales to buy games, most gamers try and give money to certain devs (hello Nintendo) and then find out Nintendo doesn't offer their legacy content for some reason so the only method is free methods, especially these days, most gamers play free stuff. See how that doesn't work, cannot just say "most gamers" and just apply it to everything 🙂

Who pays full prices for games these days? hah. GW2 is doing the exact thing it needs to do to make sure the least amount of players show up. Due to the way they did the pricing, some countries legit cannot even afford the expansion purchase prices. There was no reason to launch GW2 to steam without a sale going, they seem to have done it without a sale to make sure no one picks up the game.  There's a price limit to these things now, games cannot be too expensive. GW2 on Steam is too expensive. 

Eh I dunno about you and your friends, but the steam players and friends I got don’t specifically wait for sales. We buy games we want and have no issue supporting the game developers we like. 

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Which is great if you could see all you get, which you do not, which is the whole point. Like trying to convince someone how nice your home is but you make them stand outside.

Stop looking at the game from a player perspective who knows where the value is at and look at it from someone who has no idea what they're getting but asked to pay a $100.

And yes, people will move on, but apparently that's not a problem.

Someone who has no idea what they value is can do a minimal amount of research and find out. The game descriptions and what  it contains is provided on the site anyway, but reviews are everywhere.  Videos are on youtube. It's not like someone can't find out what the game is about.

How does this compare with all the crappy games coming out that become pay to win, or just plain sucked. How many Anthems have come out, or Cyberpunk, or even games like Star Citizen.  Anet is selling a game, it's listing what you get and if you're curious you can look it up.  Like with pretty much all game.  I invested $40 in star citizen which never came out and $60 in anthem which is pretty much the entire cost of three expansions and five living world chapters, plus the core game.  It's a good value for the pack. If people want to know what they get, they'll look it up. Who buys games blind?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Storage of what, they don't need to keep a million copies of the game stored somewhere, they can sell 1 or a 1000 copies and it doesn't change anything on their end, they don't need to sell a copy at a set value to recover cost and any sale is going to be profit for them.

 

 

They essentially DO need to keep a million copies of a game somewhere, how do you think player data is stored? 😂

I think you also grossly underestimate what developers and artists charge.  These aren't fast food wages here.

But anyway, my advice to you is learn a little more about how game economics work.  

[Sunchaser.9854]

I mean, what they're asking for isn't that like.. hard or even unknown.

The steam launch is the 10th year anniversary.

They've ran 50% off sales.

The steam launch is of dubious reception with the reviews  76% mostly positive, but 24% negative, ranging from stuff like lack of regional pricing, high 100$ upfront fee (or clarity if they can even buy living seasons later if they buy seperately on steam). as a outsider how or even if gems work on steam might worry a player who doesn't know if they'll like it until a 70 gb install is done.

And there's reviews where people are just seeming to laugh and antagonise new players for quitting or not having the drive to play when the 10 hour raptor mount trial expires and they see everyone flying around them and their access revoked without a sale that seems to push them towards quit game, uninstall rather than: Buy + continue. 

I think a sale or editing the steam page to be more fair, either adding a 50$ Eod + Path of fire/heart of fire edition with a "Complete the collection!" (All parts are buyable, pay to complete living season story) Might be fair. I mean after all, we get it on the main page, but Wow isn't currently a 100$ box right now but a 15$ sub and get shadowlands free + lvl boost. Will it cost more over time?

Yeah. But even if the expac is the worst ever, you pay for only the months you play and if you like only play during the summer months and focus on college/study the other 8/12, that's 3-4 months a year, and if you only bother one time per expac you usually at least got like 10-20 dungeons per 2-3 years + 3-4 raid tiers with probably 25-40 worth of raid bosses + 3-4 mythic+ seasons which could keep one busy for like a more tame 0-60$ box fee, 15$ per played month being like 45-60$ for a 3-4 month stint.

But most of the time when you play wow you would be playing it from dusk to dawn to a osrs, having stuff to grind, seeing 3-20 loots.

One of the comments on the steam page was that gw2 "felt like a vegan meat mmorpg, a product made by people who claimed to hate the original and never meant to please people who liked the original product".  Now while i don't necessarily agree or disagree, i think it might be a fair point. if you're trying to market your game to people who don't like wow, but don't want to play a mmorpg. Well, when you try to sell a unlimited play for free game to people who don't play mmorpgs...

There are people with 1000 hours in gw2 sold as a 100$ entry + more for bag spaces/banking/ 30$ volatile tools and 5-10$ x 3 scavenger tools + 30-50$ for all 9/9 character slots vs like people with 3000 hours of skyrim for 2.5-10$ or 200-1600+ hours in Witcher 3 wild hunt or Red dead redemption/GTA5 online.

 

You try to sell them on "But gw2 has a open world!", A non mmorpg player will go.
"Yeah, but we have Witcher3, Let me go wander around all these big towns with big graphics and rtx On and casually do everything gw2 offers. Oh a world i can visit and play forever with high hd ray tracing graphics? Yeah, i got witcher for 7.99$ on sale for 80% off. Neat huh? And i could buy 12 of these for the same price as one gw2 collection. What do i need gw2 for? Best GAME EVER BTW, in love with it, WITCHER 3 is just awesome, best gift of all time, i CAN'T stop playing it, it's so fun!!!! I'm going to NAME MY FIRSTBORN CHILD AFTER IT. HE WILL BE NAMED GWENT! " 

You try to go to a wow player and go. "it's not wow!!"

And they'll do the same thing, "Wow has no box fee for 4 months and i don't have to spend 50$ on character slots to have one of each character, 30$ to have unbreakable tools, 15$ to collect 1000s of free gameplay earned mount skins, plus we're getting a copy of gw2 griffon flight built into the Dracthyr's evoker's wings the next expac with new races so we get to fly too, and we can run 120 fps without any heat in a raid to."

 

So try ff14?

"Nah man i'm spending 15$ a month to jam in houses and go do dungeons with my friends and square's cinematics are GORGEOUS!"

 

So.. When the steam launch, prepared for 10 years only gets like 2-4k players.. Shouldn't we like.. Have at least a 50% off pof sale or something and some 10 year anniversary sales like every single year 1-9? We literally just did last month for the prime sale with the 20% off gem cards. I mean.. We want the launch, successful(????), right or uh.. Do people want gw2 to be only sold to the people already playing it? 

Game development is pretty much, development has fixed costs, distribution is just dimes on the dollar. Even just providing at least a POF sale could at least get people interested in a starter expac at a stage they seem likely to leave, and you only get one chance to make a first impression. I guess. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

They essentially DO need to keep a million copies of a game somewhere, how do you think player data is stored? 😂

 

That's save info you store in a database, not copies of the game itself. The copies of the game are created and stored player side on their PC when they download it.

Edit: Also, save data can be big or small depending on the nature of the game and how it's saved, but it's likely that save data sizes are overall smaller per player for an online game than, say, a game like Skyrim. Because for one thing, they only need one save at a time per player (maybe a few if they are doing backups, but nothing like a giant folder of saves you could get from some single player games). And for another, it doesn't need to save all of the different component level states of the game world within the save itself. That can be loaded from a single global save, since it's mostly the same for everybody (maybe a few cases where something is rendered differently for the player on the client side). It mostly just needs to save account info about the player, as it relates to their progress/states in-game. Not sure I have a larger point here, just thought I'd add some context about how this stuff actually works.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Freya.9075]

6 minutes ago, Sunchaser.9854 said:

The steam launch is of dubious reception with the reviews  76% mostly positive, but 24% negative, ranging from stuff like lack of regional pricing, high 100$ upfront fee

What? It is 85% positive reviews now. That’s not bad at all what are you talking about? I can understand the frustration with regional prices, but many of the bad reviews are just salty veterans not able to link their account 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Sunchaser.9854]

I mean fair enough.. But just as a joke example, witcher 3 is Literally a 7 year old game with still 9835 people playing it on steam currently right now, with a 97% positive review rate over 552,395 reviews with 1000s of people reviewing the game in the 300-1500+ hours played zone. Vs Gw2's 76% -> 85% review scores with most rating in the 0.1-0.7 hours played zone ( https://store.steampowered.com/app/292030/The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt/ ) 

 

Sure, statistics do lie, especially with a steam released game. But you have to at least see the other side. Selling gw2 to a non gw2 and saying basically "it's the best game ever, it's gw2", only to be met with a blank stare and a "uh.. what's a gw2?". People on steam are going to be comparing it to open world games they can play forever on steam or what they're more familiar with. For all we know, that might be a dnd online or Red dead redemption or Witcher 3 or even a semi p2w but singleplayer f2p, p2w genshin impact with Breath of the wild mechanics crossbreed experimentally with single player mechanics in pve. 

People are gonna compare the games they currently play, so what harm does having a pof sale 50% off for a 10th anniversary do? it could inject lifeblood into the game very easily, fix some negative reviews, get higher positive scores, and it's already a sale that happened last month. or offer the 50$ for eod + pof bundle with a pay to complete model or revamp of the living world to be more appealing to new players at launch. It just might as well be worth a shot. It's not like every anniversary 1-9 hasn't had one. 

[Freya.9075]

10 minutes ago, Sunchaser.9854 said:

I mean fair enough.. But just as a joke example, witcher 3 is Literally a 7 year old game with still 9835 people playing it on steam currently right now, with a 97% positive review rate over 552,395 reviews with 1000s of people reviewing the game in the 300-1500+ hours played zone. Vs Gw2's 76% -> 85% review scores with most rating in the 0.1-0.7 hours played zone ( https://store.steampowered.com/app/292030/The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt/ ) 

 

Sure, statistics do lie, especially with a steam released game. But you have to at least see the other side. Selling gw2 to a non gw2 and saying basically "it's the best game ever, it's gw2", only to be met with a blank stare and a "uh.. what's a gw2?". People on steam are going to be comparing it to open world games they can play forever on steam or what they're more familiar with. For all we know, that might be a dnd online or Red dead redemption or Witcher 3 or even a semi p2w but singleplayer f2p, p2w genshin impact with Breath of the wild mechanics crossbreed experimentally with single player mechanics in pve. 

People are gonna compare the games they currently play, so what harm does having a pof sale 50% off for a 10th anniversary do? it could inject lifeblood into the game very easily, fix some negative reviews, get higher positive scores, and it's already a sale that happened last month. or offer the 50$ for eod + pof bundle with a pay to complete model or revamp of the living world to be more appealing to new players at launch. It just might as well be worth a shot. It's not like every anniversary 1-9 hasn't had one. 

I don’t know anyone who claims gw2 has no issues and is “the best of the best” or “perfect” as this is purely subjective. I’ve talked to wow players trying gw2 for the first time and are amazed and couldn’t believe they didn’t try the game before. 
 

its not the game for everyone as this goes for any game ever made. But gw2 is doing great right now and that’s a good thing. Hyperbole about negative opinions does not help the game grow. 
 

edit: and the official 10 year anniversary is tomorrow. Who knows? Maybe they will put some sales then. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Freya.9075