Simple suggestions to improve Untamed

[InsaneQR.7412]

So i tried condi untamed for a few weeks now and switched back to soulbeast just due to its more fluid gameplay. Its better after AA changes but still weird to play.

A whiel ago I came to the conclusion that untamed has just too much going for it, i tried to get used to it but it just feels off.

So i have some suggestions to make the class simpler.

1. Remove Hammers dual form, give hammer best of both worlds. Decent damage and CC.

2. Remove the damage bonus when unleashed. Just add a second strike when you CC ( @anduriell.6280suggestion). This strike would allow for more opportunities for traits for example.

3. Give ambushes whenever you unleash either oyurself or the pet

4. Let the pet use his standard skills automatically that we set as auto attack when its unleashed and let it use unleash skills that we set as auto attack automatically while we are unleashed. This would allow for more sticky pets and making pets more impactful overall. Plus it would not feel bad to switch unleash mode, it would merely serve the purpose to switch the skillbar and give ambush skills back. The CD of the passive use of the pet and the active use of the skills should be split.

5. Remove Petswap in combat and trigger petswap traits from unleashing. Further let us see when pet or unleashed skills are on cooldown even if we are not in the respective mode.

I think those 5 changes would streamline the class a lot. I know having only one pet sucks but thsi way we would have basically the same pet twice instead. It would be simpler and easier to manage.

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[Beddo.1907]

I agree with 1-3, but not so sure about 4 and a part of 5.

4. Unleashed skills on auto are only good when used in the right moment and allowing the pet to have 6 skills at once for with no downside just sounds and feels wrong. Additionally Unleashed f1 and f3 sounds like a huge problem with pet AI just exploding.
5. Unlike Soulbeast we can't rez the pet without swap, so when the pet dies, you can't use it for the whole combat (and dumping rez onto unleash is not happening without nerf to unleash).
The cooldown part is fine.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I agree with 1-3, but not so sure about 4 and a part of 5.

4. Unleashed skills on auto are only good when used in the right moment and allowing the pet to have 6 skills at once for with no downside just sounds and feels wrong. Additionally Unleashed f1 and f3 sounds like a huge problem with pet AI just exploding.
5. Unlike Soulbeast we can't rez the pet without swap, so when the pet dies, you can't use it for the whole combat (and dumping rez onto unleash is not happening without nerf to unleash).
The cooldown part is fine.

It wouldn't be too big a problem for pve, as you only ever use one pet for untamed, but for pvp pet revive is super important and I really dislike how they nerfed soulbeast with it. Just don't make it heal on merge, its that simple.

[InsaneQR.7412]

6 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I agree with 1-3, but not so sure about 4 and a part of 5.

4. Unleashed skills on auto are only good when used in the right moment and allowing the pet to have 6 skills at once for with no downside just sounds and feels wrong. Additionally Unleashed f1 and f3 sounds like a huge problem with pet AI just exploding.
5. Unlike Soulbeast we can't rez the pet without swap, so when the pet dies, you can't use it for the whole combat (and dumping rez onto unleash is not happening without nerf to unleash).
The cooldown part is fine.

The “passive„ version of the unleashed skills could have a visual tell for fairer counterplay. But the pet randomly exploding shouldnt be an issue IMO. You can select which skills would be cast automatically, so either you want it or you dont. The pet being basically as good as two pets was actually the point. The downside is you only have one pet to rely on that is harder to protect.

The reviving is something i dorgot to mention tbh. But it could be solved easily by giving ambush skills not only life steal but also the capability to heal your pet even when down dependingmon the damage it dealt. Or just allow heal skills to revive your pet when down. Both would be limited by either requiring a successfull hit or depend on a cooldown. So i dont see this as a major problem.

Edited September 10, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[Mell.4873]

You know if you really like Soulbeast and can play it well, then Untamed will generally be not for you since is a different playstyle. 

Untamed is very spamming involving weaving stuns into a rotation. The hammer in this way is amazing since with your pet unleashed you have 3 stuns to reset cooldowns and then you unleashing yourself to apply all your burst skills.

When I play Power Untamed my Frost Trap does 60% of my damage since I use it while unleashed for maximum damage, then reset it with the stuns. You also can't die or be stunned in melee which Soulbeast has trouble with. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

20 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

5. Unlike Soulbeast we can't rez the pet without swap, so when the pet dies, you can't use it for the whole combat (and dumping rez onto unleash is not happening without nerf to unleash).
The cooldown part is fine.

the idea of those suggestions from @InsaneQR.7412 is that you can revive the pet when unleashing... At a cost. The cost is your HP, the unFun supposedly transfer a percentage of the active HP to the pet thus reviving it. 

The same should happen when the pet is unleashed: the pet transfer a percentage of it's active HP back to the ranger. 

Thus + the short cooldown of the unleashing would make it feel like you have to defeat both making the elite spec feel tankier without the need of extra stats and also giving the pet choice some meaning.  But this is an old suggestion of mine based in the idea unPlayed could be used in WvW. 

20 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

4. Unleashed skills on auto are only good when used in the right moment and allowing the pet to have 6 skills at once for with no downside just sounds and feels wrong. Additionally Unleashed f1 and f3 sounds like a huge problem with pet AI just exploding.

I think instead having them on Auto the should become ambushes. Make them more impactfull and When the pet is unleashed the next manual skill (no auto here) is one of the unleashed skills. Then it goes back to normal skills. They already keep the CD between unleashes so it is ok to trait them as ambushes instead . 

The main issue with unleashed skills is they are not that good as it can replace the pet's toolset and also it leaves the pet with just autoattacks. It's feels like using one of those universal fit clothing if you get what i mean. 

UnDeveloped needs more than that thou. It needs a traitline revision, although with the second strike when CC'ing most could be reused with little changes. 

Cantrips need to be completely reworked, not only the effects but also the type. It would be good if UnWanted skillset could have some interaction with any of the existing runes. Cantrips need to be more team oriented because as i said multiple times we don't need another PvP traitline, currently Soulbeast was pushed to fill that niche. 

Unique effects like the current heal would be impactful if it could be shared. And the heal slot should be swap with the exploding pustules thing, which heals like the druid version does instead whatever they do now. But all this suggestions were already said and Anet devs kept going with their own unfun, undeveloped, unwanted and unplayed design instead. 

Ranger surely is depression.

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

@anduriell.6280

I think you might misunderstood how i wanted that untamed revive its pets. Not with its own health but with its lifesteal on ambushes or its own heal skill. Unleash giving a small heal with each passing could also be an idea now that you mention it. But i did not mention transferring part of your own health to your pet nor did i ever had that idea in the first place unless i am horribly misremembering right now. But yeah you got the part right that the revival should still be at a cost.

I also agree that the cantrips should be reworked. I like some of them but i think they would be better of as consecrations making all of them AoE based

Sone spitballed examples: 

Heal: You summon an area of defiance. The area provides boons to allies and prevents you and your pet from dying. After a delay the Area detonates in a healing mist, healing allies depending on how much health they were missing.

Teleport: Add stunbreak to you and all allies in the area you are teleporting.

Condi Cleanse: You cleanse conditions from allies in the area. Apply conditions to enemies in the area depending on the conditions you cleansed from you or your pet. (Basically a NO U card). Remove stunbreak.

Spores: Give it a ground target, a blast finisher and a small leap alla Stomp from warrior. After the skill finishes let a poisonfield linger in the area. Allies in the area get a small heal when the spores burst and some resistance.

Binding: Ground target and pulse good damage. Allies in the area are immune to impairing conditions.

Elite: PbAoE: Apply all those boons also to allies. Give the effect of the Fervent Force trait to the elite, this would also affect allies in the area.

 

[anduriell.6280]

Ah yeah my mistake, the Hp exchange thing was suggested by others . I do think that would be a nice additions to give more depth to an otherwise very one dimensional design. It could also revive the pet with the ho provided by the ranger, as such diminishing the effect of a dead pet in wvw. 
Also I never liked plain buffs (extra stats or multipliers) as those are a must have and usually very boring. 

about the cantrip  I  like your ideas. What about the tp to teleport the unFun to where the pet is instead. Up to 5 Friendlies in a radius if the unPlayed trait for it (in the same vein as leader of the pack) 

Different than other tps and more fun because uses the pet and F1 unleash mechanic. On the same vein it limits the specialization movement as a bruiser/tankier should not have so much mobility. 

Also I would increase the unleashes F1 range so it allows a more fluid gameplay but instead make them to work only once and then go back to normal pet F’s. 
 

the additional strike is good as game mechanic design as while unleashed the ranger could trigger the CC boons additionally to the normal boons. UnDeveloped feels squishier (by giving a portion of his HP to the pet) but instead gets more support. 
 

As GM trait the UnWanted could share all those boons and the Cantrips effects to friendlies around. So by CCing it could share stability and protection to Allies.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@anduriell.6280

Tbh the mobility that untamed has is decent, but both druid and soulbeast are more mobile IMO so keeping the teleport a ground target fair even for a bruiser. Also i think making the TP to the pet can be very clunky to play with even with better positioning with the pet.

What could be cool is that your pet gains an “ambush„ depending on its archetype & when you order it to attack a target it teleports to the target and unleashes a small AoE attack depending on the buff. Each archetype will get a different form of CC (hard or soft) and some other effects.

For example:

Deadly: Applies poison, cripple and Fear. 

Ferocious: Applies Vuln & knocks down. 

Stout: Applies weakness and taunt

Supportive: Pulls, blinds and immobilizes.

Versatile: Slows, chills and dazes.

This would actually give untamed actual setup and Payoff.  You unleash your pet to CC your target and then strike. I think the untamed ambushes should also be CC oriented (like sword for example) and not damage oriented. The damage should come through CC not instead of it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Pets getting an ambush of their own would be quite overpowered, as ambush skills are mostly super strong right now.  Sure, there are some lackluster ones like shortbow, but by and large they are really good.  There's not a situation where having additional on top of what we have would work outside PvE.

For that reason, I also don't see a reason to have pets use their normal skills during unleashed state.  This creates the same problem as hammer with dual CDs, and from the looks of it most of you want to set everything to auto anyway, so more micromanagement would be too much. 

Do not like limiting untamed to one pet either, as full pet control really is the saving point of the spec at the moment.  One pet only makes sense on soulbeast because part of the spec is being merged so it works.  Unleashing is nowhere near a 'merge' functionality, so one pet would be a huge nerf.

All Untamed needs is some form of speed buff when unleashed--could rework the GM trait here as its kind of hard to get the stacks anyway.  Basically, just make it so ranger has increased movement speed when unleashed and vice versa for pet.  This would fix most of the issues with hammer--upping the power coefficients would fix the remaining part.  

Finally, I personally do not want to see any support options on untamed.  The damage is low enough now, and 'support = healing' should stay on Druid only.  Untamed is based around CC, best we leave it that way. 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267