Bring back the Pve Reaper

[Axl.8924]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you can believe that if you like but that's just not a realistic view of how the game works because not every spec can be desirable in a 10 person optimal PUG team for a raid or even worse, a 5 man CM fractal team. There simply isn't bandwidth to allow it. There is also not a need to pursue it. It's a hard sell. 

Again, even if you want to solve that problem, DPS is not necessarily the solution to do it. 

 

Thats their problem though also excuses doesn't help them especially since their balance for necromancers overall is very fishy.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Axl.8924 said:

Thats their problem though also excuses doesn't help them especially since their balance for necromancers overall is very fishy.

Actually, it's not Anet's problem ... despite the rhetoric, this game is not doomed to fail because a few specs aren't optimal. I mean, from Anet's perspective, what is the problem with Reaper not being desirable in optimal PUG teams? There are LOTS of specs that in the same situation. The problem here isn't anything but player's perception of how they thing the game should work. If a large number of non-optimal specs was ACTUALLY a problem for this game ... it wouldn't be doing as well as it is. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you can believe that if you like but that's just not a realistic view of how the game works because not every spec can be desirable in a 10 person optimal PUG team for a raid or even worse, a 5 man CM fractal team. There simply isn't bandwidth to allow it. There is also not a need to pursue it. It's a hard sell. 

Finally some sense , so now you agree ... some classes are kitten and need to be reworked to the crisp , ty . Or just reverse the freaking meta defining ele patch , and call back the unique team boons , and 10 target cap , add some uniqueness to some classes to make them desirable . 

And stop saying DPS is not the solution , it's THE solution. If i once see a spec doing 50k/s perma on any encounter , i will definitly try it , and i am certainly not the only one.

Edited October 19, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Axl.8924]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Actually, it's not Anet's problem ... despite the rhetoric, this game is not doomed to fail because a few specs aren't optimal. 

 

If i ask you lets say to produce a music album and all you can do is screech in a mic and create noise as bad as noise on a chalkboard you won't make it if you have a job in a multimillion dollar company and a position as director and fail you know what happens? company goes under and so do you and you hurt the rep. They don't need excuses that forgive them for this they need to get off and fix this problem because its their job.

IF the people up top in arenanet cannot get results they don't deserve to have their positions its their jobs to solve problems and they are supposed to be smart and know how to solve problems regarding class balance.  you say not every class is supposed ot have raid but yet some classes have dominance FB was dominant as buffer multiple rev specs are viable and yet you can't even get nec right? why because you don't care?

Edited October 19, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Finally some sense , so now you agree ... some classes are kitten and need to be reworked to the crisp , ty . 

There is no 'Finally' ...  I have always recognized there were optimal, preferred classes indicated I also recognized there was a number of non-optimal, not preferred ones.  

I also never said that I didn't agree to classes getting changes if they aren't desirable.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

If i ask you lets say to produce a music album and all you can do is screech in a mic and create noise as bad as noise on a chalkboard you won't make it if you have a job in a multimillion dollar company and a position as director and fail you know what happens? company goes under and so do you and you hurt the rep. They don't need excuses that forgive them for this they need to get off and fix this problem because its their job.

Good thing I don't make music then ....

but the fact remains that it's just not a problem there are specs that aren't desirable because they aren't optimal. Or put another way, it's not a problem Anet can solve by making class changes. It's simply math ... there are 5 or 10 spots in a team ... there are MORE than 5 or 10 specs to choose from. SOMEONE isn't playing a spec they want in optimal teams. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Good think I don't make music then ....

but the fact remains that it's just not a problem there are specs that aren't desirable because they aren't optimal. 

 

We are the paying customers if people who play lets say warrior ele mains rangers guardans and necros aren't satisfied they lose money If they continue to fail their game goes under remember google stadia? thats not a desireable outcome.

While making new specs is great asa it sells and gives content to people if your content all it does is have minor interest then people leave thats not good for a company if people jsut keep being lost look at what happened to world of warcraft where subs gets lost due to mistakes from activision blizzard.

Not saying customers are always right but CMON at some point they got to take repsonsibility for mistakes on reaper and fix issues. People are speaking up and they want reaper to be desireable for raids.

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Axl.8924

[zeyeti.8347]

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

If i ask you lets say to produce a music album and all you can do is screech in a mic and create noise as bad as noise on a chalkboard you won't make it if you have a job in a multimillion dollar company and a position as director and fail you know what happens? company goes under and so do you and you hurt the rep. They don't need excuses that forgive them for this they need to get off and fix this problem because its their job.

IF the people up top in arenanet cannot get results they don't deserve to have their positions its their jobs to solve problems and they are supposed to be smart and know how to solve problems regarding class balance.  you say not every class is supposed ot have raid but yet some classes have dominance FB was dominant as buffer multiple rev specs are viable and yet you can't even get nec right? why because you don't care?

First off all their balance team need to be very active on the game , and i dont think thats the case (remember the +5% crit. chance added , for warrior , in a condi traitline) , how are you supposed to balance something you dont know , watch a guy try his rotation on a golem , no . Play the game .

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

We are the paying customers if people who play lets say warrior ele mains rangers guardans and necros aren't satisfied they lose money If they continue to fail their game goes under remember google stadia? thats not a desireable outcome.

 

 

Sure, but that doesn't change what I said. You can fearmonger if you like, but it's a weird take considering the game hasn't crashed and burned because of some players unhappy with the existence of some non-optimal specs they can't just join optimized PUG teams with. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

First off all their balance team need to be very active on the game , and i dont think thats the case (remember the +5% crit. chance added , for warrior , in a condi traitline) , how are you supposed to balance something you dont know , watch a guy try his rotation on a golem , no . Play the game .

Sure, that's a reasonable view. I don't disagree that the best balance is going to come from the people who change it actually playing the game. I don't see how this is really relevant to the limited bandwidth of the teams though. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

1 minute ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

First off all their balance team need to be very active on the game , and i dont think thats the case (remember the +5% crit. chance added , for warrior , in a condi traitline) , how are you supposed to balance something you dont know , watch a guy try his rotation on a golem , no . Play the game .

 

ITs their job to figure it out they have folks they need to put effort into having some testers or something to playt he game and find solutions for classes put deadlines or months into balancing classes out.  They are the managers not me its their job they got responsibility if you mess up in a multimillion dollar and you feel stressed well its your responsibility to figure out a solution or hire people around you to fix the problem and find someone you trust.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

ITs their job to figure it out they have folks they need to put effort into having some testers or something to playt he game and find solutions for classes put deadlines or months into balancing classes out.  They are the managers not me its their job they got responsibility if you mess up in a multimillion dollar and you feel stressed well its your responsibility to figure out a solution or hire people around you to fix the problem and find someone you trust.

This is going to blow your mind but ... don't assume what Anet's job is to 'figure out' here. I get you want something but don't pretend it's all the sudden Anet's job to give it to you. 

Again, it's not unreasonable to think that if the goal is to allow people to play how they want, Anet may not consider this a very significant problem because people can do that if they make those choices to do so. Do not impose your view of how the game should work to create problems Anet needs to solve so you get what you want. That's a losing position. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

27 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That data does not represent the whole population of players and as I said, that's a biased dataset. I'm actually going to hypothesize that most people who aren't into measuring their performance aren't represented in that data ... which is likely to be a significant number of people that play specs that aren't high performance, like Reaper. 

Also, I never claimed to know how many. I just know there ARE people that play how they want in teams ... EVEN with Reaper. 

most people who are into hard content are measuring , i can hypothesize too then  . As for Open world my personal thoughts are the same 80% of O-world is easy as hell , once you have the basics. What happens most of the time when a dps is under a support build dps wise , he is made fun off or kicked or ask to change class . In your world maybe not , but hypothetize again your world represent a little % of the playerbase.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

most people who are into hard content are measuring , i can hypothesize too then  . As for Open world my personal thoughts are the same 80% of O-world is easy as hell , once you have the basics. What happens most of the time when a dps is under a support build dps wise , he is made fun off or kicked or ask to change class . In your world maybe not , but hypothetize again your world represent a little % of the playerbase.

Could be or maybe not. Maybe me and the people I play with are the only people in the WHOLE game who play how we want. That doesn't change the fact that anyone can do what we do. We can imagine anything we like; that's a poor premise to argue for change.

The problem here is that you want to ignore the reality that there are people that play how they want, no matter how many people that may be, to push your view of the game and pretend I'm wrong. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

4 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

most people who are into hard content are measuring , i can hypothesize too then  . As for Open world my personal thoughts are the same 80% of O-world is easy as hell , once you have the basics. What happens most of the time when a dps is under a support build dps wise , he is made fun off or kicked or ask to change class . In your world maybe not , but hypothetize again your world represent a little % of the playerbase.

 

This is exactly why we need changes for reaper to buff dmg so they don't have htat happen i experienced it and don't want it to happen again.

[zeyeti.8347]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This is going to blow your mind but ... don't assume what Anet's job is to 'figure out' here. I get you want something but don't pretend it's all the sudden Anet's job to give it to you. 

Balance team - balance the game , what's a balance in this game ? it's something equall , it represent equallity , where is equallity when something is played 27% in endgame and something else 0,75% ? i know it's impossible to have everything equall , but they should at long term fix it , reaper is supposed to be strong in pve , you can feel the design behind , while a spellbreaker design tend more for a pvp content (striping boons , etc ...) , so tell me whats the work of a balance team then ? defining if a charr is heavier than an asura ?

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Balance team - balance the game , what's a balance in this game ? it's something equall , it represent equallity , where is equallity when something is played 27% in endgame and something else 0,75% ? i know it's impossible to have everything equall , but they should at long term fix it , reaper is supposed to be strong in pve , you can feel the design behind , while a spellbreaker design tend more for a pvp content (striping boons , etc ...) , so tell me whats the work of a balance team then ? defining if a charr is heavier than an asura ?

I think you read too much into this definition of balance. There is no way all specs are going to be equal in the eyes of a team that wants someone specific. It's laughable to think Anet can engineer all specs with equal sets of features and functions that would make teams looking for specific features to reduce their risk of failure not care about who they take. 

Again, imposing your own views to create problems Anet needs to solve so you get what you want. It's a strange path to take. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

6 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

And what have you done ? i am preparing my sarcasm .

Balance in the eyes of obtenna is DO nothing and when arenanet fumbles THEY FIXED YOUR CLASS SEE? elementalist grumble of problems there is no fire you are fine your class works see? necros complain about problems HEY its not their job to fix stuff

 

Then what is their job?

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[zeyeti.8347]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think you read too much into this definition of balance. There is no way all specs are going to be equal in the eyes of a team that wants someone specific. It's laughable to think Anet can engineer all specs with equal sets of features and functions that would make teams looking for specific features to reduce their risk of failure not care about who they take. 

Again, imposing your own views to create problems Anet needs to solve so you get what you want. It's a strange path to take. 

Could have been done without the patch i love to mention , most people are looking what is efficient then try it . And at the end play mech pew pew cause it's easy/efficient , there will never be 100% equality , i agree on that , but having some e-specs played at 2% or less is not normal ... and as i said just look a 2019 july balance patch , that was nice , not 100% equall but every class was well represented in some game modes , so why isnt it the case now , cause the previous balance team didnt do their job , made freaking bad decisions , made bad changes no one asked for classes already not a lot played. Just hope Cmc fix this , as i said gj on druid , i enjoy playing this one again.

Edited October 19, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Could have been done without the patch i love to mention , most people are looking what is efficient then try it . And at the end play mech pew pew cause it's easy/efficient , there will never be 100% equality , i agree on that , but having some e-specs played at 2% or less is not normal ... and as i said just look a 2019 july balance patch , that was nice , not 100% equall but every class was well represented in some game modes , so why isnt it the case now , cause the previous balance team didnt do their job , made freaking bad decisions , made bad changes no one asked for classes already not a lot played. Just hope Cmc fix this , as i said gj on druid , i enjoy playing this one again.

Well, considering we have 9 classes and core + 3 specs = 36 separate choices, if everything was equal, that would mean every spec including core is played around 3.6%, give or take for various influential parameters. 

So while I agree that there are some extremes in that data that are not ideal and some changes should be made to even them out as best as possible, those extremes are NOT indicators that people can't play how they want (and do).

These extremes are also not indicators that this idea of balance based on 'equal' is an achievable goal; I think these extremes are actually indicating it's NOT achieveable, because this data is an indication of how people submitting their data think about playing the game and that's not everyone; we don't even know what fraction of players are submitting their data. I think the BEST we can expect is that at least one spec from every class is a 'team-focused' spec and anymore than that is just a fortunate coincidence.  

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

I want to play harbringer heal , can i join a raid party in the lfg and not waiting 3 hours ?

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I want to play harbringer heal , can i join a raid party in the lfg and not waiting 3 hours ?

I don't know. You can try. Even if you couldn't, that doesn't invalidate anything I have said in this thread because I've been very clear that playing how you want requires a player to adjust how they think about playing the game and who they play with.

Interestingly enough ... I've joined YOLO teams on LFG and I've played in groups that have picked up some pretty atypical builds, which is the whole point of teams with people that play how they want in the first place. 

So sure, keep pretending how we play the game is just some imaginary story.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

ty good afternoon

[zeyeti.8347]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Interestingly enough ... I've joined YOLO teams on LFG and I've played in groups that have picked up some pretty atypical builds, which is the whole point of teams with people that play how they want in the first place. 

And what have you done ? as content ...