Lost my desire to keep playing GW2 after this nerf

[Kstyle.5829]

Who cares about PVE.  You don't need to do competitive dps to kill raid bosses, its teamwork and you can literally beat it with any class and spec.  The only reason I quit playing PVE was bc the only challenge of it was putting together a group of people who arent horrible 

[Dr Meta.3158]

9 hours ago, Eleandra.4859 said:

I have to disagree here,

there is a stark difference between nerfing a spec in pvp and removing it from the game mode.

I am not good enough to decide what constitutes a reasonable nerf but I believe Sindrener and MightyTeapot are. Watch MightyTeapot's stream from October4th where he reads messages from Sindrener to him about the patch and comments on the effect of the patch himself.

 

And Dr. Meta's comment already implies that the nerf was not well done. Having "no thiefs and mesmers in matches" implies that more than 20% of the classes are not represented in matches they encounter.

 

@Dr Meta.3158: Not attacking you, I am aware that you just express your personal feelings and that is valid.

 

I for example hate warriors in pvp and Guardians but I am never happy to not see them because that means the pvp player base is bereft of players who would play these classes in pvp. I want to see a well balanced gameplay against these classes but I never want any one class to be absent from a game mode.

 

 

No offense taken, overall its just a game. But...

I would love to see thief and mesmer in a healthy state across the game modes, especially mesmer, but they are most certainly an unhealthy design right down to the core mechanics from biological (mesmer only with the sharp loud sounds, flashing lights from clones and skills, and increased load on eye tracking that say a warrior would never demand), psychological (surely intentional and effective, but still not good practically nor ethically) and balancing standpoint.

The way these classes are implemented now in other games would make those players rage so much with how inherently toxic they are. Also because of this they are a nightmare for the developers to balance and I can only imagine it getting harder as the original developers leave the company and the replacements try to tweak a system they fundamentally do not understand to keep the current players on those classes from feeling like their class was changed into something they didn't sign up for at all.

Its a lose lose for everyone involved. They're not allowed to be good in pvp because they ruin the fun for other players by their toxic design and their tendency to attract toxic players to main them. They're not allowed to be changed because they've been around for too long already. Leaving the best solution is giving them the firebrand treatment; ensure they stay under the rug for everyone else's enjoyment except those players. It sucks man but that shows the absolute importance of thorough playtesting before public release.

Mesmer is at least interesting in pve but even they, especially chronomancer, had been under constant battery for years due to, again, their core mechanics mucking everything up.

And thief in pve, Jesus. Talk about not fitting into a game mode. Specter was the only hope, which was also not great, and then it was gutted for no reason. For real?

[SamuelW.2685]

2 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

And thief in pve, Jesus. Talk about not fitting into a game mode. Specter was the only hope, which was also not great, and then it was gutted for no reason. For real?

Daredevil is one of the highest DPS builds in the game atm, and Deadeye is too but Deadeye as a spec is a HUUUUGE meme

And Specter still provides alac fine too, I know the changes are dumb but its not all doom and gloom, Thief is, and likely will contine to be, viable in PvE

It's dogwater in WvW zergs though, seriously, may be the worst zerg class in the whole game 

Edited October 9, 2022 by SamuelW.2685

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Something I find weird is that, as I've started doing more strike CMs, I keep seeing Specters in the party.  They're usually split up to allow for their passive barrier generation to keep the group up.  

The shroud hit was a heavy one, but specter is far from non-functioning in PVE>  It still has one f the biggest advantages of any thief build at the moment, which is the ability to do competitive DPS without being forced into movement.  I mean, sure, condi daredevil is nice... until you fling yourself off a cliff while fighting Xera, or jump right into poison on Sloth.  

[Carnifex.3275]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:47 PM, keykey.9182 said:

Don't want to make this long but I really need to vent off....

I played Supports for a long time , I come to enjoy these roles more than the usual DPS, and in GW2 some Supports do work really well.... I discovered Specter Alac and fell in love with it, really unique really fun , really fluid.

It is not piano to play and really good reward from it.

 

You just deleted a unique fun-to-play support PvE EliteSpec to hundreds because 5 cats from a dead game mode called PvP decided to complain it was to strong for them. Way to go thats right, lets listen to the 2%(PvP)>98%(PvE) ratio of people that play the game and balance the game around it.But not just that let's bring the PvP changes also to the PvE community that does not give a crap about PvP.

 

But hey! its GW2 Team im guessing next patch they'll give perma quickness to Healer Alac Mechanist since everyone and their mother plays one. And lets butcher the other viable Support builds so that people are forced to play 2 classes and uninstall the game out of boredom., because this is my current situation.

 

You butchered  Ele a long time ago, 

You butchered  Reve....

And now you butcher Specter.

 

Im so done with you.

 

Edit: Thank youu all guys I did not think this many people would feel as I do, we do grow attached to our virtual heroes we spend a lot of hours with them. The resources, energy and time that we put into them does not deserve to go away in this kind of manner.

 

Like I stated in another topic, this nerf has 100% driven me off from playing , not because of thief itself but the way this company handle things..... I don't feel like leveling another class or trying something new just to be destroyed one month after falling in love with it.

 

All the time/energy that I put into Specter all the love + making her look kitten..... im not going to get this back you know?

RESPECT YOUR CUSTOMERS, IT AIN'T THAT HARD.

 

 

Yup yup... over 9 years of playing i took about 3 breaks just because of exactly what you described. And now again... i feel like quitting. It's just not fun being "forced" to switch from your main class that u enjoy and invested in. And switching to something like pmech is just terrible. The only way to play this game for me is to not take it seriously anymore, take it like a joke, forget investment into specific classes and need to shift your mentality to being altoholic. Which is a terrible way to play a game but many of us who still play this game are looking at it like that. So now.. idk. Switch to pmech and go 1111. Not that you will enjoy it but oh well what can we do?

[Lucinellia.9247]

3 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Something I find weird is that, as I've started doing more strike CMs, I keep seeing Specters in the party.  They're usually split up to allow for their passive barrier generation to keep the group up.  

The shroud hit was a heavy one, but specter is far from non-functioning in PVE>  It still has one f the biggest advantages of any thief build at the moment, which is the ability to do competitive DPS without being forced into movement.  I mean, sure, condi daredevil is nice... until you fling yourself off a cliff while fighting Xera, or jump right into poison on Sloth.  

Just a clarification here - Specters are not split up because of the passive barrier generation. Specters are split because venoms do not stack and are overwritten, with any additional applications being attributed to the Thief that initially cast the venom. This impacts all condition Thief builds that use venoms (so, all of them) and also Alacrity Specter to a lesser degree. Venom overwriting is a substantial DPS loss so condition Thieves are placed in different subgroups and most raid groups do not take more than two as a result. There is something of a place for one or two Specters on the first three EoD Strike CMs as a result of CC capabilities through Basilisk Venom and Headshot but they are not as impactful as many other options.

When considering PvE, the problem is not that Specter performs reasonably compared with other Thief builds, it is that Specter performs very poorly compared with other professions. Guild Wars 2 does not have a high barrier of entry to additional alts, it has very little to no gear grind and there are no locks or secondary power systems that encourage people to stick with a main. The issue, therefore, is not that Specter is a reasonable choice against Daredevil, but is a very poor choice against options such as Condition Virtuoso which offers range, no limitations, a high degree of utility, safer gameplay with reintroduced Distortion, mobility and a ridiculously high amount of piercing.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Lucinellia.9247

[Vidit.7108]

I've made the decision to stop playing Condi Specter, and Condi Alac Specter. I have the option to play other things and so I will, probably going back to Scourge and Alac Rev. I've been interested in making it work since Specter was in beta and I'm not willing to put up with it anymore.

In the last 10 years I've waited for thief changes that make aspects of the class feel better to play in PvE. There are all manner of weird caveats you have to have about playing one of the three thief elite specs, DD (which i still will play) and endurance management, Deadeye and having to focus your marked target, and now Specter's shadow force management joins in the list of annoying things about thief that can easily leave your own control. They wonder why Firebrand and Mechanist have taken hold so much over the meta, when this is their competition.

They almost never have made those kinds of changes that make it smoother to play and I'm done waiting around for something that is never going to happen. I'm not confident this will ever be meaningfully addressed when they're asking a forum moderator to pass along interesting feedback instead of reading it themselves. They post here when they make balancing mistakes for other classes and we repeatedly hear nothing for Specter. What we do hear is never promising and sometimes an indication they only half-listened, like the well of bounty change. So that's it for me.  

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 10/8/2022 at 6:35 AM, Lucinellia.9247 said:

Oh, for sure. I don't begrudge the PvP nerfs at all. They make sense. It is just beyond tiring having major changes to PvE Thief because of PvP, especially when they are poorly thought out and very heavy handed.

At least you aren't in WvW which literally has the worst of both modes.  It's why I gave up on the whole a long time ago.  SA was good progress but those implementations were proposals made in like... 2013.

I don't really understand why people had high hopes though.  We all said thief support was going to be overpowered or junk because fundamentally the design is unfit for the class.  It's just the pendulum swinging in the other direction.

Numbers can't fix bad design.  People talk about splits being the problem but no amount of splitting numbers is going to split the inherent concept being incompatible with any of the three game modes.

Edited October 10, 2022 by DeceiverX.8361