Alac Mesmer Complexity

[Infusion.7149]

Mirage alacrity doesn't even work underwater as they never added alacrity to trident ambush. 

Staff shouldn't have gotten alacrity on ambushes IMO but it could have been made less passive (warlock currently isn't really a DPS boost but more for clone generation, chaos armor is negligible for the most part, and chaos storm is more for CC).

Mirage would have been fine as the condi DPS mesmer. If alacrity was really necessary on mirage, it could have been added to the Mirage Mantle trait which is mutually exclusive with Mirrored Axes or Dune Cloak which is mutually exclusive with Infinite Horizon (clone ambushes). With the change to chrono to apply alacrity (which is generally unused) it would have been far superior to have a strong condi spec that outputs might, fury, and boons other than quickness/alacrity.

[Moradorin.6217]

17 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

That may be, but your arguing with anet, not me.   I didn’t make statements about every class/spec should have it’s own everything.   You’re saying the one thing keeping that build viable is some how ruining your experience.   I didn’t set these rules or do I get a say in them.   However the current state of mirage staff having alac is whats keeping it alive in any game mode.   I mean if you do or don’t play the class, would you even play staff mirage at this point if it didn’t have alac?   All I see is a few people complaining about alac on staff being a problem that doesn’t  even effect them during their gaming experience.   There is nothing productive coming out of this topic, just nay  saying Mesmer.   How about recreate a topic on core Mesmer traits to make it better.   And not another post bitching about mesmers.   kittening trolls.

No actually, read what I responded to. I didnt start this thread. I only posted responses to other people. Therefore, I didnt make this argument with anyone. I wayed in on the exsisting topic/argument. A few people seem like they may looking for an agument, but saying ones own view in a discussion forum is what we are supposed to do here. Its the player forum...

[dead.7638]

One issue I see with Mesmer is how to balance boons.   This is a conversation worth having.   

[Salt Mode.3780]

16 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

That may be, but your arguing with anet, not me.   I didn’t make statements about every class/spec should have it’s own everything.   You’re saying the one thing keeping that build viable is some how ruining your experience.   I didn’t set these rules or do I get a say in them.   However the current state of mirage staff having alac is whats keeping it alive in any game mode.   I mean if you do or don’t play the class, would you even play staff mirage at this point if it didn’t have alac?   All I see is a few people complaining about alac on staff being a problem that doesn’t  even effect them during their gaming experience.   There is nothing productive coming out of this topic, just nay  saying Mesmer.   How about recreate a topic on core Mesmer traits to make it better.   And not another post bitching about mesmers.   kittening trolls.

A forum is a place to discuss about matters and all forms of topic, and I was simply replying to your post there is no need to get all offensive for no reason. First off I didn't mention build diversity or viability in builds that was all you, second of all before staff mirage was a thing Axe was there beforehand and it still perform the highest dps although the rotation isn't as simplistic as double staff spam. 

The complain isn't simply Alacrity on staff but how it was placed on Mirage when Chrono had alacrity to begin with. It is a lazy buff without much thought to class "diversity" by giving everyone everything. As a Mesmer main since release I would like to be true and honest to my class in knowing what needs to go where. Alacrity on Mirage was not one of them. Is Alacrity good on Mirage? Of course it is, but with ANET deciding to give back 2 dodges how would this affect sPvP and WvW if Mirage had Alacrity on staff along with 2 dodges. 

I cannot begin to imagine the compensation and trade-off we have to face and if left unchecked people will  just complain about Mesmers even more. PvE isn't the only game mode Mesmers have to worry about, in-fact most nerfs were due to sPvP and WvW that ended up affecting PvE...again you honestly think the Alacrity on staff was for Mirage to perform better in PvE? I don't know if people recalled the dev leak on the "PVP Discord" but it was meant as a buff for Mirage in PvP not PvE. PvE only reaped the benefits because of competitive play by making staff stronger.

[dead.7638]

You’re also saying this like it’s new or something, the current balance patch gave  chrono and virt distortion.   It is nice… but a slap in the face regardless when they took away boon striping.   On top of giving other specs boon buffs.   

[dead.7638]

I’m only defensive to prevent another hate topic on mesmers.   It’s just creating another bandwagon to hate on mesmers in general.   Tbh, I doubt anet ever refers to these forums to hear the community when it comes to balancing.   So it’s just unclear who the target of this topic was for, if not to create a troll post.

[Moradorin.6217]

41 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

That may be, but your arguing with anet, not me.   I didn’t make statements about every class/spec should have it’s own everything.   You’re saying the one thing keeping that build viable is some how ruining your experience.   I didn’t set these rules or do I get a say in them.   However the current state of mirage staff having alac is whats keeping it alive in any game mode.   I mean if you do or don’t play the class, would you even play staff mirage at this point if it didn’t have alac?   All I see is a few people complaining about alac on staff being a problem that doesn’t  even effect them during their gaming experience.   There is nothing productive coming out of this topic, just nay  saying Mesmer.   How about recreate a topic on core Mesmer traits to make it better.   And not another post bitching about mesmers.   kittening trolls.

If you look at my contributions to this topic thread.

- First post I just agree with Another player who states the actual fact that Alacrity wasnt asked for. Granted Tieson's angle seems to be related more to how Chrono lost out when other classes got Alacrity.

-2nd post was informing a player who didnt know Alacrity was once chrono only; That yes that is indeed a fact.

-3 Then a Levety posted to refute the assertion that anyone posting here saying Mirage never needed Alacrity on staff are NOT real Mesmers (Pretending only) and have NO REASON for what they say. I responded to that low hanging fruit of a fallacy with a factual response that I am not only a real Mesmer player, but I have played since the game went live and have played Mesmer for like 10 years and have a single toon with over 6000 hours played on it that is a Mesmer. So again, low hanging fruit (easily to prove its false) falsehood.

-4 I elaborated that Im not actually trying to call for any change necessarily, but I am interested in the topic and wanted to help keep it on track by pointing out those facts.

 

I find it interesting that rather than present facts to support your point of view you choose to make random complaints to the player base as if its our fault that Anet chose to implement one dodge, staff alac, while nerfing axe damage, various traits, etc. I never asked Anet to do those things, in fact, at the time I suggested to adjust ambush damage per clone or fix Ambush damage application in some way to balance the actual damage output of the class rather than destroy it by removing a dodge. The staff alacrity got added later because Mirage was left in such a kitten state too due to things like Axe bug making its dps suck in the hands of most players and staff being too slow after proj speed renerf. So they threw a support option at a DPS spec. No surprise it has had Mixed results. TBH you seem like one of Anet's lackies attempting to establish a pretense to ignore Mirage (seen it before in the last 3 years)

Edited November 4, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[dead.7638]

So far you have said “imo” they should remove alac from mirage and called it a”pos” class in previous post and that you wouldn’t play it unless some circumstance of you playing on a alt happened.   So please tell me again how I’m a”anet” lackey trolling the forums.

[Moradorin.6217]

btw Just to be clear. I want to see Mirage buffed. I want the reversal one the one dodge nerf because it was an obvious mistake. I would like the axe bug fixed so that axe mirage is more practical to play. I liked staff before it became a boon stick. I can live with the boon stick but I miss staff as an actual combat option and I feel it could have been a better combat weapon had support not been strapped to it. Mirage cooldowns, mobility, stun breaks, etc has all been nerfed many times over and imo is due to review. All that said, I gave up on Anet doing any that like 2+ years ago so I really only use Mirage/Mesmer for a few pve things (3 raid enounters) so I dont care like I once did. That said, I am still rather bitter about how Anet did the one dodge nerf and the other things so I still feel motivated to come and take part in the conversations.

[Moradorin.6217]

2 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

So far you have said “imo” they should remove alac from mirage and called it a”pos” class in previous post and that you wouldn’t play it unless some circumstance of you playing on a alt happened.   So please tell me again how I’m a”anet” lackey trolling the forums.

I didnt say they should remove alac. Please quote that so I can see if I am wrong? I dont recall ever saying that in any way.

[Moradorin.6217]

19 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

I’m only defensive to prevent another hate topic on mesmers.   It’s just creating another bandwagon to hate on mesmers in general.   Tbh, I doubt anet ever refers to these forums to hear the community when it comes to balancing.   So it’s just unclear who the target of this topic was for, if not to create a troll post.

I understand the frustrations about Mesmer, however, I think its miss directed.

[dead.7638]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:23 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

I totally agree Mirage never needed to be alac support

 

On 10/30/2022 at 3:23 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

IMO they should remove alac from Mirage,

 

3 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

s just another thing that makes Mirage this off trade-offs filled POS(piece of kitten) class.

 

[Moradorin.6217]

26 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

You’re also saying this like it’s new or something, the current balance patch gave  chrono and virt distortion.   It is nice… but a slap in the face regardless when they took away boon striping.   On top of giving other specs boon buffs.   

Im not saying it because its new. Im saying because, this topic comes up because new people come to Mesmer all the time who dont know the history of everything that has been done. Meanwhile actual trolls from other class forums like Mell come here and pretend to be Mesmers to litterally place missinformation into topics. Cause yea Mesmer is a red headed step child, so to speak. Heck my 2nd post was to inform a player that Alacrity was once Chrono only. That should say allot about the need to keep repeating this stuff. Because people DONT know and are missinformed.

 

Many Mirage Players are uninformed about one dodge vs 2 dodge because they only play pve. That IMO was the only reason Anet got away with it. Many people didnt understand because it didnt impact them and they continued to defend Anet thinking it was protecting the class when in fact it was damaging. This still continues today.

[Moradorin.6217]

4 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

 

 

 

Cherry picking PART of a statement in a way that miss represents what I am actually saying isn't a quote. You have not quoted me here just so you understand. This is all out of context.

 

Let me demonstrate how you are wrong.

On 10/30/2022 at 12:23 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

IMO they should remove alac from Mirage, give Mirage back its dodge and make ambushes good but balanced and make Virt the Alac support spec since it isnt dependent upon clones + ambush (staff only) for its damage/actions to it would be easier to slip some kinda alac giving action to. But its probably a bit late for that? (no cause Chrono was the only alac support when this all started [HoT] and look now)

 

Here is the entire statement I made in which you claim I think Alac should be removed from Staff. If you read the ENTIRE statement and try to understand what I am saying. I am saying that ideally staff shouldnt have alacrity and I would be happy to have it removed and have a good weapon again in staff for Mirage. However, I continue and say its  

But its probably a bit late for that? (no cause Chrono was the only alac support when this all started [HoT] and look now)

So I would say Im suggesting Im open to the idea of the removal of alac from staff, but that I understand it would probably be problematic. Then I come back with an afterthought that in fairness Alacrity was SUPPOSED to be Chrono only so what the kitten are we trying to preserve at this point.

 

Each quote you took is only party of my overall view. So to narrow my opinion down to one vantage on this topic is just false. Its not how I feel. You are just losing your grip I think cause you are so wrapped up in wanting staff to not change.

I can only assume you lean pretty hard on staff Alac Mirage for game play. I understand not wanting change. I want my dodge back and damage back and cooldowns back and Im willing to give back alacrity for it.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[dead.7638]

Sure bud, I made this all up.   

[Moradorin.6217]

10 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Sure bud, I made this all up.   

No u just miss quote by taking things as one way or the other.

My views have nuance and that can be hard to fully understand, I know. I consider it a limitation of communicating via forum posts. Its hard to have an actual informed conversation this way because it gets to be a wall of text and most dont have the time and its easy to get lost the many lists of posts.

 

If I was you I would go chill a minute.

[Salt Mode.3780]

I mean based on people's post its as clear as night and day for those who main mesmer and those who dabbed in mesmer and try to make comments on it. Again false positivity is worse then direct criticism. 

[mungozen.2379]

5 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I mean based on people's post it’s as clear as night and day for those who main mesmer and those who dabbed in mesmer and try to make comments on it. Again false positivity is worse than direct criticism. 

Hahaha you’re not being serious here right, this is bait for those who feel they have to declare ‘I’m a real Mesmer!!!!’

To the thread topic, Mirage DPS builds should be reviewed and rebalanced post 2 Dodge unnerf, then Core weapons reviewed in relation to Mirage, and then the Alacrity component should be reconsidered.  
 

I have no issue with Mirage taking on a support role but not as it has been handled thus far.  Alac Chrono has been languishing for months which is pretty sad given that Chrono was where Alacrity started.  It almost feels like they don’t want Chrono to be able to viably DPS or provide Alac or Quick.

[Salt Mode.3780]

27 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

To the thread topic, Mirage DPS builds should be reviewed and rebalanced post 2 Dodge unnerf, then Core weapons reviewed in relation to Mirage, and then the Alacrity component should be reconsidered.  

Mirage in PvE already has 2 dodges so I don't know what you are trying to say here. The return of 2 dodges has nothing to do with PvE. If anything the trade-offs would most likely be competitive play exclusive. 

[mungozen.2379]

24 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Mirage in PvE already has 2 dodges so I don't know what you are trying to say here. The return of 2 dodges has nothing to do with PvE. If anything the trade-offs would most likely be competitive play exclusive. 

As with all changes in one game mode, they tend to cross over into others, unless it’s exclusively to the numbers on a split skill. My comment you’ve quoted is  acknowledging that in the long run, rebalancing Mirage in one game mode will most likely lead to changes in all. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Moradorin.6217]

21 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

You’re assuming that anyone agreed with you.   The original post has nothing to do with removing anything.   You however took authority and derailed the og post and started making uneducated opinions on the spec.   And clearly you did say those things as how else would you take the comments you made other then face value?   I think you’re the one that needs a time out you seemed to have confused your self considering you don’t even remember making the posts

 

funny

THE OP is about Alac on Staff and how badly done it is. The post title is Alac Mesmer Complexity. The complexity relates to how much hassle it is to generate uptime with gimpy alac Mirage compared to other specs. I agree with this. I also have to agree with Tsieson in the 2nd post on this thread: 

On 10/30/2022 at 3:18 AM, Tseison.4659 said:

Mirage doesn’t need alac to begin with. It’s fine being Pwr/Condi focused. There was literally no point in giving it alac when Chrono was doing just fine in having quick/alac boons via wells etc… and our Signet of Inspiration sharing boons. Now that those have been given to other professions and they foolishly nerfed two of our Wells that have quickness and alac. Of course people are going to play alac mirage because that boon is only available on one ambush through staff and yet there’s quick and alac support traits on Chrono.

I also agree with this. Furthermore, I think Mirage would have been in much better shape and chrono too had Anet NEVER done the trade-offs (started with one dodge) . Anet made a huge lazy mistake when they did the one dodge nerf. Its the crux of all the trade-offs in balance as a whole. Its why Mirage got alac on staff (because they didnt want to actually balance Mirage)

 

You dont have to agree with me, but suggesting its off topic in the thread titled Alac Mesmer Complexity is just a false claim. Heck Chrono alac is also part of that topic. So I think Im 100% on topic, but someone throwing mud at me because you dont like my suggestion vs.  just say you dont agree, DOES derail the conversation.

 

[Moradorin.6217]

43 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Mirage in PvE already has 2 dodges so I don't know what you are trying to say here. The return of 2 dodges has nothing to do with PvE. If anything the trade-offs would most likely be competitive play exclusive. 

If they are moving away from split mode than it is for sure going to impact one another which ever gets rebalanced.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Moradorin.6217