Thoughts about how to improve the PvE instanced content in GW2. Maybe I am wrong? I don't know.

[Zok.4956]

21 minutes ago, KasiCair.5760 said:

It woulnd't necessarily need to be toughness. For example, there could be a mechanic where the boss, before using a big damage aoe, would target a player with highest healing power and stun him. (...) I meant the general idea of using stats for encounter mechanics rather than using toughness only for it.

OK, maybe I understand this idea better now.

But I think the game already is a step further, in some encounters, than this fixed assigning of special roles based on stats. For example: Players get special roles dynamically in a fight based on their positioning/distance to the boss, or special roles are assigned at fixed moments in a fight randomly and players have to react based on their dynamically assigned special role.

 

21 minutes ago, KasiCair.5760 said:

Or when you fail a specific mechanic, your vitality is reduced by a half, reducing your hp pool by a significant amount for a set period of time.

You meen like the greens and blues in VG? 😉

EDIT: This is just an example. I think such fail-mechanics are already in a lot of different ways in a lot of encounters in GW2.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Kozumi.5816]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:15 PM, KasiCair.5760 said:

FF14 so successful at instanced PvE

Has unquestionable the worst PvE in the genre.

if you want to play FF14, go play FF14. FF14 is the worst MMORPG I've ever played and a plague on this genre.

Stop making every game into that trash heap of a "game".

[Nephalem.8921]

13 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Has unquestionable the worst PvE in the genre.

if you want to play FF14, go play FF14. FF14 is the worst MMORPG I've ever played and a plague on this genre.

Stop making every game into that trash heap of a "game".

Okay....

FF14 has a far better instanced pve content than gw2. Its not even in the same league. The only reason why gw2 content improved is because they started to copy it.

[Kozumi.5816]

10 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Okay....

FF14 has a far better instanced pve content than gw2. Its not even in the same league. The only reason why gw2 content improved is because they started to copy it.

Both are terrible, but fractals are better than anything FF14 will ever create, period. GW2 content has actually gotten worse since they copied Simon Says Musical Chairs gameplay. The classes have gotten worse, too, a lot worse in fact.

FF14 is a trash heap of a game that every company copies because it makes lots of money and in turn makes their game just as much of a trash heap. It makes money due to cat girls, having a cult(literally) following spamming every game site about how great the game is and because it's an FF game, on top of extremely low funding, not because it's actually a good game.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[AliamRationem.5172]

Quote

Imagine a boss mechanic (a big, unblockable, and undodgeable attack that happens once every minute or so) that would deal percentual damage based on how much toughness you have. Do you have a baseline 1k toughness? Are you fully focused on dps in your build? Well, then you would get insta-killed by this attack. GG. And then the boss would tell you "You are not tough enough to face me!".

I know you want to change things up, but did you really think this through?  Forcing toughness with contrived mechanics like this isn't going to change the gameplay.  Toughness tanking does because it allows for control of enemy movement.  This doesn't because toughness is a purely passive damage reduction.  What it does do is create unnecessary disparities.

Heavy armor classes would suddenly have a massive advantage over light armor.  Condi builds would have a massive advantage over power.  If the specific mechanics are isolated pass/fail breakpoints (i.e. boss periodically does an attack that requires X amount of toughness or you die), then classes with abilities that can bypass this requirement (e.g. invuln) have an advantage. 

If the idea that damage is generally too high to survive without some amount of toughness, then you simply exacerbate the skill gap as better players will require less toughness, thereby increasing their damage output even more relative to less skilled groups.

The main reasons GW2 group content fails come down to core design decisions and content release cadence.  First and foremost, FFXIV has a lot more resources and this type of content is a primary focus for them.  GW2 has relatively few resources and instanced group PvE is never the main priority.

In terms of core design issues, the lack of core tanking mechanics (i.e. a system of controlling enemy movement) is a major limiting factor in encounter design.  Another issue is the simplified UI and lack of targeted support.  With no ability to provide support to specific targets from range and no ability to control boss movement, the only way to break out of stack-in-a-pile encounters is with mechanics that force splits (e.g. you have the bomb, go drop it somewhere outside of the group, etc.).

 

[Kozumi.5816]

23 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

FFXIV has a lot more resources and this type of content is a primary focus for them. 

They actually don't. Ultimate raids aren't a consistent and scheduled thing, savage raids are  4 bosses a YEAR and the bulk of the games development time is put into trash fluff content and terrible story. Remind you of another game? Here's a hint: starts with a G.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[AliamRationem.5172]

50 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

They actually don't. Ultimate raids aren't a consistent and scheduled thing, savage raids are  4 bosses a YEAR and the bulk of the games development time is put into trash fluff content and terrible story. Remind you of another game? Here's a hint: starts with a G.

Heck I'd take that.  Fractals, raids, and dungeons are dead content and we're averaging 4 strikes per year.  That's a pretty weak showing for content that consists of a single boss encounter.

[Kozumi.5816]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Heck I'd take that.  Fractals, raids, and dungeons are dead content and we're averaging 4 strikes per year.  That's a pretty weak showing for content that consists of a single boss encounter.

Yeah, this is the sad state of MMO's. When FF14 2.0 released it's content schedule was terrible and considered a barren wasteland of content. Now? It looks like an ocean of things to do in comparison to every other MMO on the market. Disgusting.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Nephalem.8921]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:06 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Both are terrible, but fractals are better than anything FF14 will ever create, period. GW2 content has actually gotten worse since they copied Simon Says Musical Chairs gameplay. The classes have gotten worse, too, a lot worse in fact.

FF14 is a trash heap of a game that every company copies because it makes lots of money and in turn makes their game just as much of a trash heap. It makes money due to cat girls, having a cult(literally) following spamming every game site about how great the game is and because it's an FF game, on top of extremely low funding, not because it's actually a good game.

You seem to hate ff14 a lot which is fine. You are probably the only one that thinks that the strike fights are worse than the raid fights.

W7 was cleared within 1:30h or something after release. Including rp downtime. Sabir was even first try i believe. The specs have gotten worse because they were rushed afterthoughts. Pretty sure new elite specs weren't even planned from the beginning. I am also  convinced that multiple devs responsible for spec design played the game at a very casual level. They were not designed with rotations or anything in mind. This resulted in all of them feeling like you just have to spam all the buttons in whatever order.

Some of them improved now. But most release versions were just lacking extremely hard. Vindicator gs is still a 4/5 copy of the ranger gs. Alliance legend is another hybrid support questionable legend.

Fractals are also just worse than wow mythic+ btw. The last fractal came out more than 2 years ago. Sirens reef 1.5 years before that. 2 fractals in 4 years.

Most of the fractals are there since the fractured update which happened 1year after release. Its mini dungeons. why do they take so long to design? FF14 ships an expansion with 6-7? dungeons and adds more during a cycle?

There are still way too many single use story instances. They could be turned into fractals but no, better waste the entire map design for a single use story instance. 

[Kozumi.5816]

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

You are probably the only one that thinks that the strike fights are worse than the raid fights.

Trash makes stuff more interesting. Strikes are extremely bland, I might as well go play epic boss battles starcraft 2 mod if i just want to fight bosses in a square room.

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Some of them improved now. But most release versions were just lacking extremely hard. Vindicator gs is still a 4/5 copy of the ranger gs. Alliance legend is another hybrid support questionable legend.

Mechanist says hi. They have an extreme fixation on 0(zero) APM specs that do 29k+ DPS. Action game, btw.

Class design is better, balance is, and always has been, absolute trash. It somehow gets worse every patch.

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Fractals are also just worse than wow mythic+ btw. The last fractal came out more than 2 years ago. Sirens reef 1.5 years before that. 2 fractals in 4 years.

No they aren't, have you even played M+? in WoW? They're really boring and the affixes do nothing to make them more fun.  Fractals were "micro sized" dungeons with unique gameplay mechanics that weren't just "aoe down everything then kill a boss that has too much HP to be fun".  CM 99 final boss is one of the best 5 man bosses ever made. The newest fractals are really, really bad, though. They went downhill once they started to make fractals take as long as a dungeon.

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

FF14 ships an expansion with 6-7? dungeons and adds more during a cycle?

6-7 hallways with forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss - > forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss - > forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss. 

I wonder why they can make so many..

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

There are still way too many single use story instances. They could be turned into fractals but no, better waste the entire map design for a single use story instance. 

This has been a problem plagueing this game for a long, long time now. They've gotten better about it but strikes are scraping the toilet bowl level of content in a MMO.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Nephalem.8921]

2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Trash makes stuff more interesting. Strikes are extremely bland, I might as well go play epic boss battles starcraft 2 mod if i just want to fight bosses in a square room.

Ok but explain to me why so many people preclear w7 trash so their static does not have to do it? Or why some groups skip escort and trio when they can. Or why people are willing to pay gold to not do the w7 trash event when its so much fun?

2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

No they aren't, have you even played M+? in WoW? They're really boring and the affixes do nothing to make them more fun.  Fractals were "micro sized" dungeons with unique gameplay mechanics that weren't just "aoe down everything then kill a boss that has too much HP to be fun".  CM 99 final boss is one of the best 5 man bosses ever made. The newest fractals are really, really bad, though. They went downhill once they started to make fractals take as long as a dungeon.

Fractals are basically aoe everything down aswell. How are instabs making fractals more fun? Last time i checked they are still random dmg and basically just annoying. The weakness on boonstrip one is still bugged. For 5years now? The endbosses are just undertuned af and die before they can fight back. 99cm endboss would be one of the best designed bosses ever made if this was 2014. It is not anymore. It is not even something special anymore.

FF14 has the eye mechanic too frequently. Both have "kill add in time" too way more frequently than gw2. There are 3cm fractals worth mentioning. The rest of them can be completed by 5 blind monkeys. And like i wrote some are 10years old at this point and we dont even have a full 25set yet.

2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

6-7 hallways with forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss - > forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss - > forced 2-4 mob pulls - > boss. 

I wonder why they can make so many..

And the difference to fractals is where? FF14 dungeons are casual content yet the bosses there have more mechanics than everything in fractals besides the 3 cms.

Break down fractals. Most of them come down to 3-4 forced boss pulls + endboss aswell. The only difference is that some fractals have mini puzzles.

2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This has been a problem plagueing this game for a long, long time now. They've gotten better about it but strikes are scraping the toilet bowl level of content in a MMO.

 

No raider likes trash. Getting rid of it just saves everyone some time.

 

The problem with instanced content in gw2 is and always was that there was barely any and the content that existed was mostly faceroll easy and/or lacked rewards.

I did play m+. And ff14. And most likely did far more fractals than you. 5player content of other games cant be worse than gw2 content. Bad content is still better than no content at all...

And we wont get new fractals anytime soon. probably never. Strikes are the only instanced content we get.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The irony is that Final Fantasy XIV is based upon Guild Wars 2.

 

The original FF14 that launched was horrible, and when it relaunched this game was the most acclaimed MMO next to World of Warcraft, and not only did WoW get an expansion that completely redesigned all its mechanics to be more like this game, but the FF14 relaunch also used the same development methadologies.

 

(In particular, this was one of the first MMOs to have a true Personal Story, something that in the past was told only through limited-time world events in WoW, etc., and later became a staple in all MMOs.)

 

But people seem to easily forget this just because it overtook this game in popularity afterwards.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Kozumi.5816]

14 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

How are instabs making fractals more fun?

They aren't, this is part of the "they've gone donehill" I'm talking about.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 11/11/2022 at 1:11 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The irony is that Final Fantasy XIV is based upon Guild Wars 2.

 

The original FF14 that launched was horrible, and when it relaunched this game was the most acclaimed MMO next to World of Warcraft, and not only did WoW get an expansion that completely redesigned all its mechanics to be more like this game, but the FF14 relaunch also used the same development methadologies.

 

(In particular, this was one of the first MMOs to have a true Personal Story, something that in the past was told only through limited-time world events in WoW, etc., and later became a staple in all MMOs.)

 

But people seem to easily forget this just because it overtook this game in popularity afterwards.

FF is more old-school MMORPG, also has better end game (if one likes gear treadmill).

[Kozumi.5816]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

FF is more old-school MMORPG, also has better end game (if one likes gear treadmill).

It doesn't have end game, it's 4 square room musical chairs simon says bosses per year(remind you of another game?)

Edited November 14, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Nephalem.8921]

7 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

It doesn't have end game, it's 4 square room musical chairs simon says bosses per year(remind you of another game?)

Vg is a circle. Gorse, sab, matthias etc all circles. Arkk is a square and you praised that fight.

Is a circle that much superior to a square? Do extreme trials then. they are far closer to gw2 strikes than savage.

Its also 1raid = 4.5 bosses every 9 months and some extreme trials and 3 alliance raids per 2 years. so closer to 8-9 encounters per year.