mech rifle feels like...

[Infusion.7149]

12 minutes ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

i mean you arent wrong.. but those filthy casuals can make or break a game.. we all want this game to succeed …. right?

 

or is it a case of “good riddens, we dont need you, this is our club”.. ?

It's more that if people are going to leave due to a balance patch that existed less than a year (rifle change was in June so even less than that) then they are playing this game not as intended.

Chronos were nerfed far harder than rifle mech ever was and unlike rifle mech it was actually far more difficult to play (hence LFG for chrono during HoT). The invested effort for well performing chronos was gone, whereas a rifle mechanist requires minimal effort. Arguably firebrand were nerfed hard this patch and experienced firebrands (as in actually using all the tomes) were hurt severely.

The players you want to keep are the ones that actually want to engage with the game's combat systems and skills. Otherwise, you trivialize the entire game into "w key" level play. (Autocast launch and daze on the mech robot was one of the worst ideas ever because it also affects other players in groups and in openworld.)

Luckily for those players they can still play mace mechanist which requires positioning but is more in line with the intent of the spec, which is to provide a less complex condi spec and an alacrity support. Rifle mechanist is not unusable, it just requires more positioning now. The very fact that rifle mechanist "hi, DPS" players are more concerned with rifle mech than the firebrand nerfs' effects on the meta along with alac mech receieving the same mech limitation is quite telling.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Ruisenior.6342]

19 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If people leave because of a build that existed less than a year then they haven't been playing long.

And what's the point of your statement?

[Geranor.5392]

53 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

Some of us like the changes to Rifle AA, If people will leave the game cos they cant AFK 1111111111 on PMECH anymore then Anet cant win. LI builds are fine, AFK builds are bad for the health of the game.

Are they? Why? Or only because YOU want to smash Buttons and dont give others the option to NOT smash Buttons?

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

And what's the point of your statement?

People that can't take a single balance patch aren't going to last long at all in this game.

[Ruisenior.6342]

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's more that if people are going to leave due to a balance patch that existed less than a year (rifle change was in June so even less than that) then they are playing this game not as intended.

 

What im reading XD no more to add

[Holly.8190]

4 minutes ago, Geranor.5392 said:

Are they? Why? Or only because YOU want to smash Buttons and dont give others the option to NOT smash Buttons?

I may prefer more complex builds but I have never had an issue with anyone playing power zerker or condi DD, Hell even before the Rifle patch in June there where LI Mace builds for Mech and never had an issue. LI builds shouldn't be AFK get 25k dps, if the Mech Rifle builds was getting 18k dps which is still fine for most Instanced encounters i would have no issue but it wasn't and now they are trying to bring it down suddenly Anet are the devil like WTF. 

[Ruisenior.6342]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

People that can't take a single balance patch aren't going to last long at all in this game.

But that isnt a reason to justify those changes. 

Ive been playing since release and i can play any class on pve and pvp at a good level. This doesnt change the fact that Nerfs like the ones to Firebrand/Mechanist(specially the LI riffle build) to name some make those specs unplayeable on alot of scenarios if not completly ruined.

2022 Has been a really bad year with alot of bad changes that seemed to be done by a group of childs

[Holly.8190]

Just now, Ruisenior.6342 said:

But that isnt a reason to justify those changes. 

Ive been playing since release and i can play any class on pve and pvp at a good level. This doesnt change the fact that Nerfs like the ones to Firebrand/Mechanist(specially the LI riffle build) to name some make those specs unplayeable on alot of scenarios if not completly ruined.

2022 Has been a really bad year with alot of bad changes that seemed to be done by a group of childs

Dont like the direction Anet are taking the game leave, there are plenty of other MMOs available

[Ruisenior.6342]

1 minute ago, Holly.8190 said:

Dont like the direction Anet are taking the game leave, there are plenty of other MMOs available

Those are my plans definetly. Ill stay here for some time spending 0 cents and if those nosense changes called balance patches XD keep coming it will be the perfect time to move on

For the sake of god as an example did you see what they did to dragon's tooth XD. And calling scepter changes apropiate to eclipse mainhand dagger on eles XD. No way.

Pls guys open your eyes, workers are here showing no mercy. They should start taking care of this 'once' beautifull game

Edited November 30, 2022 by Ruisenior.6342

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

But that isnt a reason to justify those changes. 

Ive been playing since release and i can play any class on pve and pvp at a good level. This doesnt change the fact that Nerfs like the ones to Firebrand/Mechanist(specially the LI riffle build) to name some make those specs unplayeable on alot of scenarios if not completly ruined.

2022 Has been a really bad year with alot of bad changes that seemed to be done by a group of childs

You know the firebrand changes are probably just first step in a series of iterations. I tested mech with rifle today on auto (which is the main thing that changed) and it is still putting out 16k+ DPS on par with some melee weapons which is sort of ridiculous considering a mechanist with a mech that is not attacking can even pull close that. If you run J-Drive then it is more.

Firebrands that don't play engineer are a bit dramatic, tomes are still usable if you play DPS firebrand just not in the same manner. It's hybrid firebrand that was hurt the most since you have limited pages.

[iNaddict.8021]

29 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's more that if people are going to leave due to a balance patch that existed less than a year (rifle change was in June so even less than that) then they are playing this game not as intended.

Chronos were nerfed far harder than rifle mech ever was and unlike rifle mech it was actually far more difficult to play (hence LFG for chrono during HoT). The invested effort for well performing chronos was gone, whereas a rifle mechanist requires minimal effort. Arguably firebrand were nerfed hard this patch and experienced firebrands (as in actually using all the tomes) were hurt severely.

The players you want to keep are the ones that actually want to engage with the game's combat systems and skills. Otherwise, you trivialize the entire game into "w key" level play. (Autocast launch and daze on the mech robot was one of the worst ideas ever because it also affects other players in groups and in openworld.)

Luckily for those players they can still play mace mechanist which requires positioning but is more in line with the intent of the spec, which is to provide a less complex condi spec and an alacrity support. Rifle mechanist is not unusable, it just requires more positioning now. The very fact that rifle mechanist "hi, DPS" players are more concerned with rifle mech than the firebrand nerfs' effects on the meta along with alac mech receieving the same mech limitation is quite telling.

i agree that we need engaged players.. even better to turn fickle players into engaged players..

 

maybe i am the minority here, i dont mind the mechanist. the dps they were putting out was amazing and easy sure, but why does that concern people in pve? those signets whilst overloaded, but doesnt really affect other pve players negatively.. 

 

everyone just lobbying to put down other people specs but their own..

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

i agree that we need engaged players.. even better to turn fickle players into engaged players..

 

maybe i am the minority here, i dont mind the mechanist. the dps they were putting out was amazing and easy sure, but why does that concern people in pve? those signets whilst overloaded, but doesnt really affect other pve players negatively.. 

 

everyone just lobbying to put down other people specs but their own..

Doesn't affect other players negatively is 100% false. Why?
1. Mechs cause visual bloat in openworld 
2. In so many years of GW2 I have never seen people so lazy that they autocast CC , which means if people CC on accident it is problematic in instanced content. Doubly so because of the launch. You hate rangers with longbow 4? Now with autocast!
3. The ranged mech has enough DPS to snipe things at range
4. People semi-afking on mechanist
5. It gave Arenanet a reason not to buff power holo, finally they buffed power holo to above power scrapper levels when nerfing rifle mech
5b. People will tell you to play mech if you want to play power holo before this patch.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Geranor.5392]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Doesn't affect other players negatively is 100% false. Why?
1. Mechs cause visual bloat in openworld
2. In so many years of GW2 I have never seen people so lazy that they autocast CC , which means if people CC on accident it is problematic in instanced content. Doubly so because of the launch. You hate rangers with longbow 4? Now with autocast!
3. The ranged mech has enough DPS to snipe things at range
4. People semi-afking on mechanist
5. It gave Arenanet a reason not to buff power holo, finally they buffed power holo to above power scrapper levels when nerfing rifle mech

1. WTF

2. Blame the People not the Class/Build

3. the mech itself? is this rly a problem in open world stuff? because with the Genius change the Mech is a mess cause of its AI.

4. in Group stuff besides open world metas and dragonstorm? dont think so...

5. why not both?

[iNaddict.8021]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Doesn't affect other players negatively is 100% false. Why?
1. Mechs cause visual bloat in openworld 
2. In so many years of GW2 I have never seen people so lazy that they autocast CC , which means if people CC on accident it is problematic in instanced content. Doubly so because of the launch. You hate rangers with longbow 4? Now with autocast!
3. The ranged mech has enough DPS to snipe things at range
4. People semi-afking on mechanist
5. It gave Arenanet a reason not to buff power holo, finally they buffed power holo to above power scrapper levels when nerfing rifle mech
5b. People will tell you to play mech if you want to play power holo before this patch.

 

1. we are nerfing the wrong thing if you want to accomplish this.

2. skill signet issues can be addressed without nerfing dps

3. whats wrong with this?

4. you underestimate peoples laziness.. it wasnt invented when mech was invented..

5. and 5b. how are they related? 

 

look, im not going to lobby for rolling back of changes, i am a chrono main. no one likes nerfs.. but, honestly im happy before, those casuals who would struggle with extra difficulty with other classes, contribute more.. metas were succeeding…

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, Geranor.5392 said:

1. WTF

2. Blame the People not the Class/Build

3. the mech itself? is this rly a problem in open world stuff? because with the Genius change the Mech is a mess cause of its AI.

4. in Group stuff besides open world metas and dragonstorm? dont think so...

5. why not both?

I actually blame Arenanet since they refuse to remove autocast on mech which would have been better than the hackjob of 50% stats outside of 360 range.
Re: 5, Arenanet hasn't buffed power weaver for the explicit reason catalyst exists. Same for power firebrand or power harbinger. It's as if they want one spec per class to be the dominant one for a particular way to play (power/condi/heal).

----

OpenWorld is mostly power so power mech not being the strongest way to play engi is actually better as more scrappers and holos will be played.

The CC is not from signets, it's from the actives (commands).

Mech legitimized semi-afk play. It's possibly worse than the reapers with minions out.

2 minutes ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

 

1. we are nerfing the wrong thing if you want to accomplish this.

2. skill signet issues can be addressed without nerfing dps

3. whats wrong with this?

4. you underestimate peoples laziness.. it wasnt invented when mech was invented..

5. and 5b. how are they related? 

 

look, im not going to lobby for rolling back of changes, i am a chrono main. no one likes nerfs.. but, honestly im happy before, those casuals who would struggle with extra difficulty with other classes, contribute more.. metas were succeeding…

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[iNaddict.8021]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I actually blame Arenanet since they refuse to remove autocast on mech which would have been better than the hackjob of 50% stats outside of 360 range.
Re: 5, Arenanet hasn't buffed power weaver for the explicit reason catalyst exists. Same for power firebrand or power harbinger. It's as if they want one spec per class to be the dominant one for a particular way to play (power/condi/heal).

----

OpenWorld is mostly power so power mech not being the strongest way to play engi is actually better as more scrappers and holos will be played.

The CC is not from signets, it's from the actives (commands).

yea mech active skills.. same diff, they can remove the cc.. no dps affected..

 

its bizzare that you think the right way to make players play other specs is removing relevance to another spec..

 

all i am saying is that… mech players would tell other players to just enjoy their own classes suck it up… now tables turned, non mech telling mech players you guys just enjoy your class its fine.. how are you both different?

Edited November 30, 2022 by iNaddict.8021

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, iNaddict.8021 said:

yea mech active skills.. same diff, they can remove the cc.. no dps affected..

 

its bizzare that you think the right way to make players play other specs is removing relevance to another spec..

 

all i am saying is that… mech players would tell other players to just enjoy their own classes suck it up… now tables turned, non mech telling mech players you guys just enjoy your class its fine.. how are you both different?

People are invested in gear, you can play rifle PBM holo if you want to reuse gear.
Also firebrand was nerfed pretty hard this patch.

[iNaddict.8021]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

People are invested in gear, you can play rifle PBM holo if you want to reuse gear.
Also firebrand was nerfed pretty hard this patch.

 

lol.. im going to leave this forum.. i dont need to play holo, i said earlier chrono is my jam. no one needs to try and change my mind on anything..

 

all i wanted to point out is, what was the big deal… seeing a class succeed thats not yours doesnt ground for pitchforks.. specially when you are fighting comp AI.. (OW)

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

 

lol.. im going to leave this forum.. i dont need to play holo, i said earlier chrono is my jam. no one needs to try and change my mind on anything..

 

all i wanted to point out is, what was the big deal… seeing a class succeed thats not yours doesnt ground for pitchforks.. specially when you are fighting comp AI.. (OW)

It was also very common to see in fractals, raids, and strikes. Not just openworld. I don't think I have spent much time in openworld this entire year after the first month of EOD actually. It's funny you say a class that's "not yours" when I have thousands of hours on engineer and most of it on scrapper or holosmith. Mechanist is a less than year old thing.

[iNaddict.8021]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It was also very common to see in fractals, raids, and strikes. Not just openworld. I don't think I have spent much time in openworld this entire year after the first month of EOD actually. It's funny you say a class that's "not yours" when I have thousands of hours on engineer and most of it on scrapper or holosmith. Mechanist is a less than year old thing.

looks like i didnt leave this website fast enough.. keep getting notified of stuff while flipping thru the mesmer forums..

 

my referring to “class” i mean spec.. my apologies.. plus i dont mean to single you out.. my use of “yours” is the proverbial “everyone”.. whatever their current spec/jam is, and something they strongly are attached to..

 

as people, we have trouble in just “letting people have their fun” specially if we feel we are missing out.

[Okhu.7948]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Doesn't affect other players negatively is 100% false. Why?
1. Mechs cause visual bloat in openworld 
2. In so many years of GW2 I have never seen people so lazy that they autocast CC , which means if people CC on accident it is problematic in instanced content. Doubly so because of the launch. You hate rangers with longbow 4? Now with autocast!
3. The ranged mech has enough DPS to snipe things at range
4. People semi-afking on mechanist
5. It gave Arenanet a reason not to buff power holo, finally they buffed power holo to above power scrapper levels when nerfing rifle mech
5b. People will tell you to play mech if you want to play power holo before this patch.

No amount of buffing will ever make Holosmith fun.

[MajinSoul.4512]

It's a disaster. At least all the Mech haters got what they wanted ...

[Raap.9065]

4 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

People that can't take a single balance patch aren't going to last long at all in this game.

 

So here is the issue; This isn't a balance change.

I'd wager most players are generally fine with balance changes in either direction. Mechs needed a nerf? Sure, I'd say most would be fine with a nerf.

But this patch wasn't a balance change. It was a double mechanical change;

1. Rifle handling was significantly altered to reduce weapon responsiveness, all to achieve... what exactly? If lower damage was the intended outcome, then reducing the damage would have been a fair balance adjustment. Instead, they opted to mechanically change the weapon and cause significant jank in the process. The rifle feels terrible now, when it instead could have kept the 3 round burst but with lower damage values.
2. The 360 range mech change was a mechanical adjustment with the consequence of the mech being unusable in large crowd game modes as PvE and WvW. The mech AI is extremely volatile, it can leave that 360 range by simply pressing any movement key. So say you're doing a group battle, you walk forward -> the mech does what it always does and decides to move forward by going twice the distance you traveled -> now your mech is lost in a crowd of particle effects and name tags, and a bunch of identically looking mechs. What was the point of this change? If the intended outcome was a damage reduction, a flat reduction would have been fine... But this is just a mess.

So this is why my earlier comment also pointed out that GW2's balance team makes decisions from within the bubble of a specific game mode. They make changes that can work out alright in some modes but completely break specs in other modes, which goes well beyond of "a simple balance patch".

Players invest a lot of time, energy, and even real world cash into characters. A few balance tweaks won't deter most players, but a wrecking ball would.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Raap.9065

[Sindust.7059]

20 minutes ago, Okhu.7948 said:

No amount of buffing will ever make Holosmith fun.

This.

 

When I started the game I picked engi because with pistol and rifle being the only core weapons I thought I would play ranged. But when I arrived at lvl80 group content, it was "sword holo or you're doing it wrong". That made me go on a 2 year break, because the thought of all that investment into the character having to be done all over again for another class that will again be lied about at the character creation screen put me off. And when I came back, what made me stay was condi shortbow soulbeast, because it plays the way I thought engi would. I had basically abandoned engi until EoD release, and I was very happy when I discovered that p/p condi mech was a thing and even more when rifle power mech had become a thing.

 

But now I guess it's back to soulbeast. Because where other e-specs get a damage absorbing shroud, engi gets a suicide button and an increased cooldown on some of the skills. kitten that, and kitten whoever thought the holo concept was a good idea.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

maybe i am the minority here, i dont mind the mechanist. the dps they were putting out was amazing and easy sure, but why does that concern people in pve? those signets whilst overloaded, but doesnt really affect other pve players negatively.. 

So you understand it's overloaded and has "amazing easy dps" to the point it's almost passive (at 1200 rage at that) and you're still somehow wondering why balance changes target it? 😐 I mean... you pretty clearly know exactly why, you just wrote it.

3 hours ago, iNaddict.8021 said:

everyone just lobbying to put down other people specs but their own..

Nope, that's not it.