Tired Of Pepega Invuln Design Classes

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

*cough*

• This trait has been renamed Smothering Auras, and its functionality has changed.
• When applying an aura to the elementalist or an ally, Smothering Auras removes one condition.
• Detonating an aura removes two conditions from nearby allies.
• Fire auras have a 33% increased duration.

*cough*

Ebastion Increased healing coefficient from 0.55 to 0.8 in PvP only. *cough* Elemental shielding Increased protection duration from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds in PvP only *cough* Final Shielding This trait no longer grants Arcane Shield when dropping below 50% health. Instead, it grants Arcane Shield after using an elite skill *cough* Icy coil Increased condition damage reduction from 5% to 10% in PvP *cough* rocky loop Increased damage reduction from 5% to 10% in PvP *coug* Soothing Water Increased pulse healing from 1,340 to 1,541 in PvP *cough* fortified Earth Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP *cough* Elemental Celerity Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP *cough* Cleansing Wave The base healing value of this skill has been increased by approximately 20% *cough* my coughing is really bad today... sorry for that.     Thats just the sustainbuffs or reworks that come to mind right of the bat... im sure there is more, and i havent even mentioned any offensive buffs.  There is a dangerous lack of knowledge in what your saying here....

oh yeah, I was thinking Core changes. Thx for pointing that out! totally forgot about those lol

And here, take some syrup to your coughing 😅

[Dreams.3128]

Ah yes, my yearly 'pls nerf ele because I couldn't punch through them compared to when my class used to be so stupidly strong I could t-pose and things died' thread. 

Glad to see this community never changes.

Also shout out to the man that things FAweaver is actually worth something in PvP. People must have forgot that Ele is one of the few classes that is so desperately dependant on the type of stat lines that are available, so most power builds basically eat FA in any capacity. 

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Thats just the sustainbuffs or reworks that come to mind right of the bat... im sure there is more, and i havent even mentioned any offensive buffs.  There is a dangerous lack of knowledge in what your saying here....

But to be fair tho, smothering auras was changed in 2018.

and even tho they buffed cata, they recently nerfed it a bit in oct 4 patch

• Fortified Earth: Reduced base barrier from 3,000 to 2,520 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
• Rocky Loop: Reduced damage reduction from 10% to 7% in PvP only.
• Staunch Auras: Reduced stability duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

 

Obviously not enough considering the previous buffs, but to some extent I wasn't THAT wrong with my statement. Still, I missed all that Cata and Tempest changes, so thank you for your input 😄

[Sahne.6950]

49 minutes ago, AzuritaBlues.3206 said:

But to be fair tho, smothering auras was changed in 2018.

to be fair, your right... i think it was 2018.

BUt....To be fair, its THE one change, that got magnified by the transmuteaura buffs that you mentioned. The cleanse is pushing alot of Ele builds over the top.

If you played this game for 10 years like some of us have... 2018 is recently 😄

The smothering auras change, Ebastionbuff, and Elementalshielding buff is why Tempest is as strong as it currently is, thats why i linked it. 

Alot of peopel simply dont know that the whole "cleanse with auras" thing.. is "reeeelaaaaaatively new"....  

I think its important to see the bigger picture when looking at balance...  and not just recent year or two.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Dr Meta.3158]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

DELUSIONAL.  - Tell me you dont like FAweaver, without telling me you dont like FAWeaver.

 

"its just like tools holo."

 

FA Weaver is very garbage in competetive pvp right now.... while Toolsholo isnt. 

How many FAWeavers do you see in MAT?   how many FAWeaver did ever win a MAT? 

The answer is 0.

With a WH00PING 3,4 Rating it is officially the worst pvp build according to Memebattle.com. IF we go by community rating, there is exactly 53 Builds that your better off playing than FAWeaver......   Hardstuck.gg?  They dont even list FAWeaver as a potentially viable build.. THEY DONT EVEN MENTION IT..  Guildjen.com? They have it... but as the last of all the Ele builds and marked as  *Offmeta/situational* They put it on the Same level of viability as Firebrandsupport... and we all know how viable FBsupport is in spvp 😉

 

You can flex with it in FFA and surely get some kills... but in a Real conquest setting your borderline griefing if you play FAWeaver instead of Cata.

 

I'm not your therapist, Sahne. Take your insecurities elsewhere.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Dr Meta.3158

[Sahne.6950]

52 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I'm not your therapist, Sahne. Take your insecurities elsewhere.

Idk man thats just how i feel about it. Sorry for calling you delusional...

i guess i have to accept that you have a diffrent opinion.

But I think toolsholo is wayyy better than FAWeaver in literally every situation.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Idk man thats just how i feel about it. Sorry for calling you delusional...

i guess i have to accept that you have a diffrent opinion.

But I think toolsholo is wayyy better than FAWeaver in literally every situation.

I accept your apology, but I'm going to need for you to read more carefully. I didn't mention anything about the strength of FA weaver. I highlighted an option on elementalist that is similar in playstyle to tools holosmith (primarily rifle) to different person. There was zero commentary, directly nor indirectly, about the potency of either build. Even if there was, an emotional outburst is still uncalled for over something that trivial; this is a video game.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Ah yes, my yearly 'pls nerf ele because I couldn't punch through them compared to when my class used to be so stupidly strong I could t-pose and things died' thread.

If you didn't notice, even Ele/Mes mains are in here discussing how Ele/Mes has an overabundance of random invulnerability.

[Sahne.6950]

40 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I accept your apology, but I'm going to need for you to read more carefully. I didn't mention anything about the strength of FA weaver. I highlighted an option on elementalist that is similar in playstyle to tools holosmith (primarily rifle) to different person. There was zero commentary, directly nor indirectly, about the potency of either build. Even if there was, an emotional outburst is still uncalled for over something that trivial; this is a video game.

Then i misunderstood you... but im pretty sure you compared the two in another thread... maybe it was another guy... i dont quite remember. 

Apologies 

[Sahne.6950]

9 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you didn't notice, even Ele/Mes mains are in here discussing how Ele/Mes has an overabundance of random invulnerability.

Yeah... playing and playing against it is hella slow and boring at times. 

More counterplay pls.

-sincerely, someone that is abusing invulns 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But I think toolsholo is wayyy better than FAWeaver in literally every situation.

This is an interesting point for discussion in this thread.

Tool Holo is currently the strongest 1v1 build, by far. We figured this out pretty quickly in the previous NA 1v1 ladder season 1. It doesn't even need to play psychological games swapping builds before each round to counter. The sword/shield version of this build is just straight up the strongest 1v1 build requiring no swaps at all to engage anything in the game and lay down an absolutely crippling win against even the best 1v1 duelists, if they are not on a Tool Holo to match it. In all the patchings we've had over the past 10 years, I don't think we've ever had a build like current Tool Holo that was THIS dominant in 1v1 situations. Trying to duel a masterful Tool Holo with something that is not a Tool Holo is like standing on the tracks in front of a freight train and trying to find a way to stop it with your bare hands. The Tool Holo simply runs you over with pure offensive pressure that never stops, massive DPS and way more CCs than it needs. It doesn't even really need defenses in a 1v1 because its offensive is its defense.

Tool Holo imo needs less offense power and more defensive attributes/utility, so it can be less godly in 1v1s and more practical for conquest. Although it is S++ tier in 1v1s, it has glaring weaknesses in 5v5 conquest or even 2v2s. It is extremely prone to being killed in 1v2s or burst down very quickly when focused. This is because it uses no hard invuln or invuln like defenses such as an Ele or Virt, it has no stun breaks, and virtually no condi cleanse. This is why we hear so little complaint about this build structure in the forum, because in 5v5 matches, only a handful of players between NA and EU remain who possess the expertise to make this build functional in team fight play.

I thought this was interesting for this discussion because it shows how a build structure can be the king 1v1 vs. anything, but be only mediocre or worse in conquest, due to how the dynamic of the combat completely changes from a 1v1 to a 2v2 to 3v3+. So what makes a build good at conquest? It's real simple to narrow this down actually. Builds that are good at conquest are the builds that are the best at surviving focused pressure, whether that is from superior disengagement factors or superior sheer sustain factors. This highlights how strong invulnerability is or compounding too many small effects that essentially create invulnerability. If a Tool Holo had room for one more massive block effect or was buffed and was given a 2-3s invuln somewhere on its build, it would be an absolute ungodly monster in conquest and impossible to kill in 1v1s.

It's something to think about when considering how much of this invuln stuff is being throw around in GW2 right now. All I'm saying is there are better ways to balance the game than tossing more and more invuln onto classes/builds, for all the reasons we've already covered.

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you didn't notice, even Ele/Mes mains are in here discussing how Ele/Mes has an overabundance of random invulnerability.

What ele build are you talking about, hammer cata? I don't know why you would neglect mentioning vindi or even tools holo (which has a 16 sec cd block on tool kit)

Edited December 12, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

What ele build are you talking about, hammer cata? I don't know why you would neglect mentioning vindi or even tools holo (which has a 16 sec cd block on tool kit)

im assuming he means degens running tempest + cata and sharing earth shield with eachother holding 2v3 like its nobodys buisness xd

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

What ele build are you talking about, hammer cata? I don't know why you would neglect mentioning vindi or even tools holo (which has a 16 sec cd block on tool kit)

Catalyst is clearly the culprit we are talking about.

Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing. The builds I am referencing in this thread are the builds in the game that can simultaneously offense while defensing, while being virtually immune to all damage. This falls under Mes/Ele that have too many effects like Distortion/Infinite Horizon or stacking effects like Swirling Winds/Shock Aura/Stone Heart, which allows these classes to perpetually land offensive animations while being passively invulnerable with way too low of ICDs on all of these effects that allow them to do this.

Someone said it perfectly a page or two back, it turns the game into "a waiting game" where there is no way to counterplay that stuff and thus no reason to even attack the Mes/Ele until you patiently wait for a + or patiently poke in and out attempting to bait out CDs while playing overly defensively so you don't die while attempting to desynchronize their skill cycle so you can attempt to expose some split second opening to be able to deal enough damage to kill it in 2s before it goes into another 60s cycle of invulnerability. <- These cycles of perpetual invulning are way too easy to do and way too powerful anymore nowadays. And again, I'm tired of hearing the Mesmer "but our class is useless in conquest" because that's bologna. In WvW even, they know full well they are the #1 roamer due to massively bloated defense value when pve options are incorporated. Even if they can't kill you, it's virtually impossible to catch & kill a well built Mes spec that wants to disengage and survive. Harder to do than catching a Thief actually. Even a single reveal will allow you to kill a Thief, but these Mes specs man, they don't even need stealth. Same thing for WvW Catalysts. They're like a rolling adamantine boulder that can't die with pve options, ascended stats, and foods.

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Catalyst is clearly the culprit we are talking about.

Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing. The builds I am referencing in this thread are the builds in the game that can simultaneously offense while defensing, while being virtually immune to all damage. This falls under Mes/Ele that have too many effects like Distortion/Infinite Horizon or stacking effects like Swirling Winds/Shock Aura/Stone Heart, which allows these classes to perpetually land offensive animations while being passively invulnerable with way too low of ICDs on all of these effects that allow them to do this.

Someone said it perfectly a page or two back, it turns the game into "a waiting game" where there is no way to counterplay that stuff and thus no reason to even attack the Mes/Ele until you patiently wait for a + or patiently poke in and out attempting to bait out CDs while playing overly defensively so you don't die while attempting to desynchronize their skill cycle so you can attempt to expose some split second opening to be able to deal enough damage to kill it in 2s before it goes into another 60s cycle of invulnerability. <- These cycles of perpetual invulning are way too easy to do and way too powerful anymore nowadays. And again, I'm tired of hearing the Mesmer "but our class is useless in conquest" because that's bologna. In WvW even, they know full well they are the #1 roamer due to massively bloated defense value when pve options are incorporated. Even if they can't kill you, it's virtually impossible to catch & kill a well built Mes spec that wants to disengage and survive. Harder to do than catching a Thief actually. Even a single reveal will allow you to kill a Thief, but these Mes specs man, they don't even need stealth. Same thing for WvW Catalysts. They're like a rolling adamantine boulder that can't die with pve options, ascended stats, and foods.

with how "powerful" these invuln spams are I am sure we will see plethora of virtuoso players in MAT right?
Surely you wouldn't overplay how strong it is simply because its annoying right?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

with how "powerful" these invuln spams are I am sure we will see plethora of virtuoso players in MAT right?
Surely you wouldn't overplay how strong it is simply because its annoying right?

This thread isn't about how effective it is or isn't at knocking people off nodes for decaps, it's about how powerful it is in general combat, whether 1v1s or 2v2s or off node in a conquest game or WvW. This has been stated several times now.

The point being made several times over is that invuln designs that present your best option being to avoid that player and ignore him because you can't deal damage to him while he follows you around and shoots you in the back while you try to do other important things, is just a bad feel for the person trying to avoid the invuln archetype and the person playing the invuln archetype. <- This kind of game flow dynamic is exactly why Mesmers say "we are useless" because people literally walk around and ignore them and even though they have a nigh invulnerable build, they still can't knock people off nodes for decaps, and generally lack the utilities they need to actually be good at 3 node conquest play.

So understand what's being discussed here. I"ll say it again, there are better ways to balance these classes rather than just slapping more invuln on them. The invuln might be equating to sustain to stand up to other meta builds or even surpass those builds in sheer combat survivability, but that balance ideology is just equating to invulnerable boulders rolling around that are bad at node play, that people just ignore because you can't deal damage to them. This is a seriously bad game design philosophy to be stepping further into. It needs to stop.

Might I also point out that maybe if the Mesmers didn't lean on a massive amount of invuln effects for survival, they wouldn't be losing node cap progress all of the time. Consider what I"m saying here in this thread.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Might I add that invuln also presents stability that cannot be boon corrupted or boon removed that is also an infinite intensity stack that can't be chewed through. So when someone invulns for 6s straight, they are immune to CCs and that immunity cannot be stripped or breached even if an actual zerg of players were to unleash pure CCs on them for 6 seconds straight.

It's an awfully strong effect to be granting more and more of, and as I pointed out in the previous post, having to lean on too much invuln for your class's balance, makes it bad at holding node.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

im assuming he means degens running tempest  and sharing earth shield with eachother holding 2v3 like its nobodys buisness xd

Degen....Tempest.....Earthshield.. Holding 2v3 like its nobodys business....  I feel personally attacked!/s :C

Having perma reflects and stacking every invulnerability that you can find, isnt degen at all......./S  😉

Having a wagonload of mechanics that completly shutout certain builds,....... isnt degen at all /S  😉

holding nodes 2v3 like its nobodys business...twice....isnt degen at all /s 😉

Ele has no other defense tools and needs all those Pepega Invulns. /s  :C   <--- Every  sh ity   Ele main.

Turn the Invulns into blocks!

Gives room for counterplay, doesnt ignore half of the games mechanics anymore. Isnt a "cleanse" anymore.     BUT you can now hold nodes better.     

Brainless pepega mechanics down.   Counterplay and viability for Conquest up.    Its Win Win in my books.    

For real... it wouldnt even be a nerf, it would just be a change. And one for the better if you ask me.

As a ele main i say:  The invulns can go. Give us block on Obsidianflash and Fortify.

While they are at it, increase Unblockable CC skills. Blocking should be a concious decision that can be punished.  It shouldnt be your "get out of jail Free" Card, because only a handful of specs have Unblockable CC..... *Laughs in 4 second duration Unblockable Gale*

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

12 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Catalyst is clearly the culprit we are talking about.

Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing. The builds I am referencing in this thread are the builds in the game that can simultaneously offense while defensing, while being virtually immune to all damage. This falls under Mes/Ele that have too many effects like Distortion/Infinite Horizon or stacking effects like Swirling Winds/Shock Aura/Stone Heart, which allows these classes to perpetually land offensive animations while being passively invulnerable with way too low of ICDs on all of these effects that allow them to do this.

Let's be more specific. We have these things (just off the top of my head):

• Distortion shatter
• Distortion on signets
• Virtuoso Aegis
• Mirage dodge (Infinite Horizon has nothing to do with this)
• Arcane Shield
• Shocking Aura
• Mag Aura
• Swirling Winds (but other classes have similar effects, like CPC)

Which of these would you like to see removed? Or is it something else, if so, what.

12 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Someone said it perfectly a page or two back, it turns the game into "a waiting game" where there is no way to counterplay that stuff and thus no reason to even attack the Mes/Ele until you patiently wait for a + or patiently poke in and out attempting to bait out CDs while playing overly defensively so you don't die while attempting to desynchronize their skill cycle so you can attempt to expose some split second opening to be able to deal enough damage to kill it in 2s before it goes into another 60s cycle of invulnerability. <- These cycles of perpetual invulning are way too easy to do and way too powerful anymore nowadays.

Eh, Vindicator is also a "waiting game", actually ranger too with the block -> evade -> swoop evade -> stealth, and so on. It turns into a waiting game regardless of if the defense skill does damage or not. Also Vindi does damage at the end of the dodge, to me that counts as "offense while defensing". Even Full Counter could be considered "offense while defensing" and the ideal counterplay is precisely to "wait it out".

12 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

And again, I'm tired of hearing the Mesmer "but our class is useless in conquest" because that's bologna.

It's not useless but it's one of the worse ones. And the most powerful build (condi/bunker chrono) doesn't have a lot of these types of mechanics, just Distortion basically.

12 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

In WvW even, they know full well they are the #1 roamer due to massively bloated defense value when pve options are incorporated. Even if they can't kill you, it's virtually impossible to catch & kill a well built Mes spec that wants to disengage and survive. Harder to do than catching a Thief actually. Even a single reveal will allow you to kill a Thief, but these Mes specs man, they don't even need stealth. Same thing for WvW Catalysts. They're like a rolling adamantine boulder that can't die with pve options, ascended stats, and foods.

Let's stick to sPvP in this forum section.

Edited December 13, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

7 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This thread isn't about how effective it is or isn't at knocking people off nodes for decaps, it's about how powerful it is in general combat, whether 1v1s or 2v2s or off node in a conquest game or WvW. This has been stated several times now.

Mesmer isn't good off node, both Virtuoso and condi/bunker Chrono falls off off-node. Condi/bunker chrono relies on stationary wells. Not sure which build you are talking about here.

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

19 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I thought this was interesting for this discussion because it shows how a build structure can be the king 1v1 vs. anything, but be only mediocre or worse in conquest, due to how the dynamic of the combat completely changes from a 1v1 to a 2v2 to 3v3+. So what makes a build good at conquest? It's real simple to narrow this down actually. Builds that are good at conquest are the builds that are the best at surviving focused pressure, whether that is from superior disengagement factors or superior sheer sustain factors. This highlights how strong invulnerability is or compounding too many small effects that essentially create invulnerability. If a Tool Holo had room for one more massive block effect or was buffed and was given a 2-3s invuln somewhere on its build, it would be an absolute ungodly monster in conquest and impossible to kill in 1v1s.

"Builds that are good at conquest are the builds that are the best at surviving focused pressure, whether that is from superior disengagement factors or superior sheer sustain factors. This highlights how strong invulnerability is"

But Vindi and Spellbreaker are considered stronger in conquest and do not have these invuln effects like Cata (earth shield) or Virt/Mirage/Chrono. This contradicts the narrative.

Edited December 13, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Sahne.6950]

23 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

 

But Vindi and Spellbreaker are considered stronger in conquest and do not have these invuln effects. This contradicts the narrative.

Oh well... i always thougt vindi was cycling evades and blockframes, like theres no tomorrow.... 

Today i learned! 

I mean... your right its not a invuln. No arguing there. But vindi makes up for this with crazy endurance regeneration and Staff.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Leonidrex.5649]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This thread isn't about how effective it is or isn't at knocking people off nodes for decaps, it's about how powerful it is in general combat, whether 1v1s or 2v2s or off node in a conquest game or WvW. This has been stated several times now.

The point being made several times over is that invuln designs that present your best option being to avoid that player and ignore him because you can't deal damage to him while he follows you around and shoots you in the back while you try to do other important things, is just a bad feel for the person trying to avoid the invuln archetype and the person playing the invuln archetype. <- This kind of game flow dynamic is exactly why Mesmers say "we are useless" because people literally walk around and ignore them and even though they have a nigh invulnerable build, they still can't knock people off nodes for decaps, and generally lack the utilities they need to actually be good at 3 node conquest play.

So understand what's being discussed here. I"ll say it again, there are better ways to balance these classes rather than just slapping more invuln on them. The invuln might be equating to sustain to stand up to other meta builds or even surpass those builds in sheer combat survivability, but that balance ideology is just equating to invulnerable boulders rolling around that are bad at node play, that people just ignore because you can't deal damage to them. This is a seriously bad game design philosophy to be stepping further into. It needs to stop.

Might I also point out that maybe if the Mesmers didn't lean on a massive amount of invuln effects for survival, they wouldn't be losing node cap progress all of the time. Consider what I"m saying here in this thread.

you can name this however you want but its plain for all to see.
you want to nerf kitten spec because its annoying, so go ahead and say it instead of making kitten up of how " powerfull " it is.
because its not, nobody will pick kitten virtuoso in MAT, they will roam on thief, sidenode on warrior or cata or untamed and teamfight on tempest or guard like it has always been.
" Might I also point out that maybe if the Mesmers didn't lean on a massive amount of invuln effects for survival, they wouldn't be losing node cap progress all of the time "
Might I also add that when they nerf invuln virtuoso will go back to core engi tier if not lower again? And lets be real, they wont give it any function either, since its mesmer.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

15 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Oh well... i always thougt vindi was cycling evades and blockframes, like theres no tomorrow.... 

Today i learned! 

I mean... your right its not a invuln. No arguing there. But vindi makes up for this with crazy endurance regeneration and Staff.

I agree but I am responding to Trevor here who seemingly does not agree. I'm arguing on his premises.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Ya the invulnerable gameplay in guild wars 2 was a design artifact from the Shadow-form meta of guild wars 1

 

it was someone’s brilliant vision at arena net 10-12 years ago to bring the god mode button from that game (one of the very few unbalanced skills from guild wars 1) and to design every class in guild wars 2 like it…being able to both invulnerable to damage while being able to simultaneously deal damage.

 

Smiters boon was a skill that worked in a similar manner (healing you while simultaneously doing damage) and well the history of this skill shouldn’t even need mentioning as it’s already ingrained in popular culture.