What happened to matchmaking?

[Khalgir.3862]

I have never lost more than 4 games in placements in my life. This time I lost 6. The games were not even close; they were 100-500 or 200-500. It is either my team is terrible or the enemy is just outright bad. What happened with the balance?

[CrowEschatologist.6214]

I don't think it's noticeably worse than its regular terrible self? Game quality seems horrible at season start both ranked and unranked. Had a single tight game and the rest were 1 sided stomps featuring the usual massive skill imbalances and AFKing.

[Fueki.4753]

The lopsided matches happen, because the low (and still steadily decreasing) amount of players remaining in sPvP results in you getting matches with players of massively varying skill levels.

Matches with 10 players that are reasonably close in capability don't exist anymore (or at least are exceedingly rare).

[Bizgurk.5639]

Pvp Season just started so a majority of the people is doing their placement games, which means there's a higher volatility in matchmaking than usual.

[Mell.4873]

Yeah no one plays sPvP. 

Its not that the people that like it have left, it's more that new player don't know where to start so they don't play it. 

This is especially true after the much needed Engineer Rifle nerf which brought alot of new players into PvP. 

[Khalisto.5780]

pvp is insanely dead and that alone is enough for poor matchmaking, on top of that you have PROS q dodging each other for easier matches (to not say free).

 

And matchmaking itself is pretty flawed when it's clearly set to get fast matches and not balanced ones, in a matter of 7 mins it can place a 1800 player vs a 1100, when it should take at least 20 ish mins, that's what other games do

[Fueki.4753]

42 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

And matchmaking itself is pretty flawed when it's clearly set to get fast matches and not balanced ones, in a matter of 7 mins it can place a 1800 player vs a 1100, when it should take at least 20 ish mins, that's what other games do

If it took 20 minutes for a match invitation to pop up, even less people would engage with sPvP.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Khalisto.5780]

9 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If it took 20 minutes for a match invitation to pop up, even less people would engage with sPvP.

the example is pretty clear, it's a 700 mmr gap, what it would do in fact would gather low rating faster and discourage the exploit offhours climb and duo q dodge, cuz it would just wait for the ppl dodging to finish their match to put em together. Plus we know all "top players" have nearly 24 hours free to play, so it wouldnt take much for them to actually play in prime time and fight each other.

[CrowEschatologist.6214]

42 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If it took 20 minutes for a match invitation to pop up, even less people would engage with sPvP.

 

I'm 1 full season of PvP in and I usually wait ~ 1m 40s for a match to pop, but I'd happily triple the wait to get matches closer to my skill level. I'm pretty sure that seeing top 50 players when I'm barely in gold 2 hints at substantial issues in the matchmaking.

[Fueki.4753]

33 minutes ago, CrowEschatologist.6214 said:

 

I'm 1 full season of PvP in and I usually wait ~ 1m 40s for a match to pop, but I'd happily triple the wait to get matches closer to my skill level. I'm pretty sure that seeing top 50 players when I'm barely in gold 2 hints at substantial issues in the matchmaking.

I usually wait 4 to 10 minutes for a match, so I'm already waiting for more than twice the time you wait for. I definitely do not want to have the queue times tripled or quadrupled.

Also, do not forgot that the mathc maker tries to enforce a win rate close to 50%, so matches will likely be lopsided anyway.

Rating literally means nothing, so it'd be a mistake to needlessly prolong the queue times.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[phokus.8934]

12 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I usually wait 4 to 10 minutes for a match, so I'm already waiting for more than twice the time you wait for. I definitely do not want to have the queue times tripled or quadrupled.

Also, do not forgot that the mathc maker tries to enforce a win rate close to 50%, so matches will likely be lopsided anyway.

Rating literally means nothing, so it'd be a mistake to needlessly prolong the queue times.

To be clear, the matchmaker does not force a 50% win rate.  That's just nonsense talk made up by people who gain higher rating than what their skill level is.  Literally every pvp game has players saying this which is simply not true.

[CrowEschatologist.6214]

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I usually wait 4 to 10 minutes for a match, so I'm already waiting for more than twice the time you wait for. I definitely do not want to have the queue times tripled or quadrupled.

Also, do not forgot that the mathc maker tries to enforce a win rate close to 50%, so matches will likely be lopsided anyway.

Rating literally means nothing, so it'd be a mistake to needlessly prolong the queue times.

 

Rating probably means something - even if it is indicative rather than definitive. I'm likely to get spannered by a Holosmith ranked way above me. The same build played by someone way below me? Not so much.

 

I suspect if you are ranked well above Gold2 you and I have competing incentives on queue time - as you observe players in the higher brackets will wait longer, but I won't be getting punched down on so hard (or punching down either, but that's okay).

[Luthan.5236]

For me it is always pretty random - cause of that soft reset and the higher volatility in rating change during placments. Sometimes losing less. Sometimes losing more. I think winning at the start ... can lead to later losses. Cause during placements the rating still gets calculated in the background (just not showing) ... where wins at the first matches might push you too high too quickly.

But yeah ... annoying when I saw the lots of  "2 vs. 2 elite" and players with titles like that. And 500 vs 100-200 only most of the time. I try to surrender early (waiting at spawn) ... th end it quickly. At last for the first week. My placements usually are finished after 3-4 days but othe players might not be that fast. To really get better it needs at least 2 weeks I think. But after one week it should start to improve already. I wish they'd finally remove those soft resets. Worst part of the PvP currently.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Morwath.9817]

 

11 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

For me it is always pretty random - cause of that soft reset and the higher volatility in rating change during placments. Sometimes losing less. Sometimes losing more. I think winning at the start ... can lead to later losses. Cause during placements the rating still gets calculated in the background (just not showing) ... where wins at the first matches might push you too high too quickly.

But yeah ... annoying when I saw the lots of  "2 vs. 2 elite" and players with titles like that. And 500 vs 100-200 only most of the time. I try to surrender early (waiting at spawn) ... th end it quickly. At last for the first week. My placements usually are finished after 3-4 days but othe players might not be that fast. To really get better it needs at least 2 weeks I think. But after one week it should start to improve already. I wish they'd finally remove those soft resets. Worst part of the PvP currently.

Those off-season "elite" titles mean close to nothing. Don't try "surrender" when you see people with titles! Even Quaggans have such titles!

[Khalisto.5780]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Rating literally means nothing, so it'd be a mistake to needlessly prolong the queue times.

Even if I agree that rating no longer reflects your skill at the game, it still means something, specially when it comes to match making.

You don't see very good ppl in gold 2 or lower

 

You don't see very bad 1450+

 

matchmaking should start at 100 rating spam and keep searching for ppl in this rating every till 2m30s then spam another 50 rating every 1m30s, so at 4 min you already have 200 rating spam, which already can lead to bizarre matches. A 1k and 1.2k rating players are not that different in skill, but a 1300 and a 1500 the skill gap is huge, if you consider both players reach these mmr solo, the skill issue is even bigger.

 

It would take the same 4 min for a 1500 player to q into a 1700, but it would take extra 6 min on top of that 4 mins to a 1300 player to q into that 1700, as it should be tbh. Matches shouldnt take that long if ppl don't  try q dodge ppl at the same rating as them, if they try they mess up everybody else's q times. 

 

Right now they messing up everybody else match quality by doing this 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Fueki.4753]

41 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

Right now they messing up everybody else match quality by doing this 

They ruin match quality on purpose anyway.

People still lower their rating on purpose, maybe even on secondary accounts, so their main account stays high.

And there's still the issue that duo queue uses the average rating, rather than the higher rating for both players, causing higher rated players being placed in lower matches.

Before fiddling with the match maker and making the queues worse for everyone (likely even exponentially so for anyone playing outside of their server region's "prime" time), they should deal with the match manipulation.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Khalisto.5780]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They ruin match quality on purpose anyway.

People still lower their rating on purpose, maybe even on secondary accounts, so their main account stays high.

And there's still the issue that duo queue uses the average rating, rather than the higher rating for both players, causing higher rated players being placed in lower matches.

Before fiddling with the match maker and making the queues worse for everyone (likely even exponentially so for anyone playing outside of their server region's "prime" time), they should deal with the match manipulation.

the right thing to do is move legendary progression to unranked and make titles solo q only

 

also rewards double for legendary stuff in solo when you win and 0 when you lose

[Mythras.2091]

This is what happening, when you hit the button:

 

 

They dont ruin match quality on purpose, its low population and soft match manipulation (as they are not rule breaking, but highly effect the match):

- duo queing with a decent pvp freind on a smurf account

- avoiding prime time

- utilizing the pure amount of experience against medium or low skilled players (changing and playing classes to farm the enemy while the other players happy to know only one class)