Have HB expectations changed in fractal groups?

[Archguardian.9278]

I'd like an expectation and reality check, I was booted from a fractal group yesterday. 

 

We were in T4 volcano and finished the boss, no wipe.  After, one of the people sarcastically asked if I heal.  We had boon overload, toxic trail and afflicted instabilities.  We were at 100% health during the fight save just after the final boss first bubbled for a moment.  People were standing on a lot of lava ponds and toxic spots, plus we had like -15% max hp due to overload.  Between shield bubble, F3 bubble and the utility bubble I kept the lava missiles from the slug things off of us.  We didn't get many condis on us, which is sort of surprising given how much aoe can sometimes happen in there. 

 

The mesmer was disappointed they had to use distortion.  I have my T2 fractal account augmentation and 32K AP and mostly play on my guard.  I've been around the block more than a few times let alone in fractals.  I've literally done hundreds of sets of T4 fractals.  I have full heal stat gear with monk runes.

 

My computer loads slow, so when I loaded in in the Reef and Underground Facility the party was already fighting the first mobs and taking damage.  I suspect they didn't realize I wasn't there yet, which likely made them feel I wasn't healing.

 

I've never had an issue with a group which should be evidence for itself and fractals are always clean and fast.  To be open, I hardly ever use the F2 heal skills.  In my experience the party is always at 100% hp.  I use my pages for strategic of F3 for stability, bubble or the 5 defence skill.  If we're in a really hairy fractal with bad compounding instabilities I'll use F2 but I found I've never needed it besides that.

 

The person had all their pots so they've certainly done fractals themselves.  I wonder how many as in my experience and even with good players sometimes the fractal instance and its instabilities can add up in very harsh ways to play.  imo this is the nature of fractals, and in the chaos of battle you'll sometimes need to press a heal or evade button once.    I'm not sure if it is reasonable to expect to be at 100% hp in every fractal at all times.  Sometimes things can get really ugly and you may have to press your own heal button.  I got a sense of elitism based on a couple of their comments but was surprised when I got booted regardless.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Asum.4960]

15 hours ago, Archguardian.9278 said:

What are your thoughts?

Forget and move on - from 5k DPS players flaming 30k DPS players about too low group DPS after a wipe, because they played an "off-meta" spec, clearly not using DPS meters, to players literally standing in lava complaining about heals, there will always be idiots. 

And do keep in mind, most "Elitists" in this game are anything but the elite.

 

If it bothers you, potentially block them - you can set the reason for block as nickname in the blocked list, that way you can more easily avoid playing with them again in the future, and reference back to what the reason was should you happen upon them again and want to weigh up if you want to give them another shot.

 

If complaints about your contribution becomes a pattern, do look into it ofc, but just the fact that this encounter bothered you enough to make a forum post about it makes it seem like you got being self-critical covered already.

[MagicBot.1570]

If people are dying in fractals - unless it's related to a shared or party mechanic - it's their fault.

Healers are entirely optional, people who run without premade groups simply prefer to run with one because it makes their experience smoother. With the amount of dodges available, the healing skill, the 100% endurance regen with vigor + potion or class-specific trait + potion, as well as personal defenses integrated in practically every build, you have enough to survive every cm boss on your own rather easily. Same for T4s

Edited January 17, 2023 by MagicBot.1570

[Hotride.2187]

I've not noticed more complaining when healing, since the reworks.

Its common for players to get downed at volcano last boss, if they sit in the aoes. Most you can do is use cleansing flames instead of w/e stab utility you are using. Personally I drop resistance with F3 4, so that immob from the adds doesn't get anyone killed (who is trying to stay out of the dmg). And I pop mace/shield 3 or 4 for the aoe the boss does, as a lot of players sit in it.

The most kitten I've gotten has been in thaumanova reactor, cause many players /gg to get to the last boss instead of keeping their singularity buff (and then they melt in 1 second on the bombs). But since I switched to bow of truth that happens less. And even there it was a few people complaining in 2+ years of doing dailies.

In fact dropping the cleansing mantra for bow of truth (since cleanses are not an issue now with F2 2 being readily available) has increased the healing output by a lot for me.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Asum.4960]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The most kitten I've gotten has been in thaumanova reactor, cause many players /gg to get to the last boss instead of keeping their singularity buff (and then they melt in 1 second on the bombs).

Just as a quick side note, this is only a problem if not everybody gg's. If everybody does so, Singularities reset and can be quickly grabbed by everybody again after skipping back to the central platform via gg.

[EveningTempo.4796]

6 hours ago, MagicBot.1570 said:

Healers are entirely optional

-sweats nervously in siren's reef

[Infusion.7149]

Well you were playing with a mesmer in your party in fractals in 2023. That is anything but "elite" so I'm guessing it's just a random T4 group and it's nothing to worry about.

If I had to venture a guess it is a bunch of people that think having a HB means facetanking AoEs is possible. That is partly why heal mechanist is actually better for fractals combined with condi quickbrand, since barrier ignores agony. As I play renegade quite often, using an unnecessary dodge is something I actively avoid doing as opposed to side stepping and this is more apparent in a scenario where you would expend all your dodges.

It is nearly impossible to heal people affected by agony which reduces healing by 70% on the meta firebrand (which has axe and shield) while they are sitting in poison AoE (-33% healing) at the same time. The best you can hope for more or less is a rally or block. It is worse for heal firebrands not running loremaster these days since you don't keep the passive resolve either (and you would need to run virtues to share resolve anyway).

I've had a condi scourge tell me to boonrip before on renegade and people join on weird things akin to blood magic reaper so I think Asum's advice is best: block (and put the reason so you know in the future) and move on.

[Archguardian.9278]

Thanks folks.  This was more of a sanity check than anything else.  I've never needed to block someone, and this is a blip.  Any other feedback I've had has always been very positive.

 

It was a non-standard group.  Virtuoso, 2 mechs, DH and my HB.  Total pick-up group.  I think the issue came with me jokingly saying I'd stop healing, then my slow loads while they got hammered by the first trash mobs after rushing in without me there.

 

I've seen a lot more deviation in people, builds and attitudes since they nerfed fractal instabilities.  I think the nerf is a good thing, it opens fractals to builds people enjoy playing vs having to pick a meta.  I like playing the support role, and I also like being the HB as it ensures the instances go smoothly.  I just took stock given the situation.  I had another group recently that rushed T4 molten boss, they dragged all the mobs to the first mini-boss before the bridge.  We all laughed as they really made me work hard to heal, but tbh I'm used to people just doing that in T3 or lower.  We got through fine, but wasn't sure if both situations were part of a larger trend of people becoming more careless in T4s.

 

I'm honestly not used to that type of attitude either.  I saw it back in my old WoW days and was glad to play a game with such an amazing community.  Thanks again all!

Edited January 18, 2023 by Archguardian.9278

[Mell.4873]

Honestly there are so many hybrid builds out there so someone can pick up pick a healing traitline and pump out some healing. 

I mean if the Mesmer was a Virtuoso they can use Inspiration for about 5k hps party healing with only about 5-7k dps loss. A common one also is Vindicator which has no boons but tones of burst healing, which even a pure DPS has access too.

There is really no excuse not to diversify for a particular Fractal run. 

[Infusion.7149]

I have to say that is a really bad example though. People would likely rage at you for running inspiration virtuoso since even inspiration chrono typically isn't healing unless running minstrel for tanking ; the power conversion to healing power while using Healing Prism minor trait is 13% (so it leads to ~300 healing power) meaning about 300 healing per blade with Illusionary Inspiration. Power virtuoso would be giving up either Vicious Expression (and Fragility) or Superiority Complex at a minimum ; I'm not sure how a condi virtuoso would work without Dueling's Sharper Images or the Low Intensity variant's Chaotic Persistence and Illusionary Membrane.

That's a far weaker proposition than say swapping tactics traits onto a warrior (Soldier's Comfort instead of Leg Specialist, Vigorous Shouts instead of Martial Cadence) or blood magic onto a condi scourge (which isn't a healer unless you play with plaguedoctor stats , but runs Desert Empowerment on the DPS build already). On the other hand if you are playing an alacrity role and not a DPS role you could probably run the cele variant of renegade or tempest with few if any build changes as the healing skillset is always present (Soulcleave, warhorn 4/5 on water). If thief had better cleave on condi specter poutside of shroud then that would be another build that people would be bringing in fractals; condi barrier specter has been a offmeta build in the past that requires zero healing power.

Regardless for the particular scenario of virtuoso, mechanists, and DH (which has high burst and an AoE pull) it is quite clear that the people weren't that great themselves since if they had the cleave (which should be a non-issue with that setup as virtuosos and mechanists both cleave 5 targets) they would have rallied and even without healing they would not have died.

[Strider.7849]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:29 AM, Archguardian.9278 said:

I'd like an expectation and reality check, I was booted from a fractal group yesterday. 

 

We were in T4 volcano and finished the boss, no wipe.  After, one of the people sarcastically asked if I heal.  We had boon overload, toxic trail and afflicted instabilities.  We were at 100% health during the fight save just after the final boss first bubbled for a moment.  People were standing on a lot of lava ponds and toxic spots, plus we had like -15% max hp due to overload.  Between shield bubble, F3 bubble and the utility bubble I kept the lava missiles from the slug things off of us.  We didn't get many condis on us, which is sort of surprising given how much aoe can sometimes happen in there. 

 

The mesmer was disappointed they had to use distortion.  I have my T2 fractal account augmentation and 32K AP and mostly play on my guard.  I've been around the block more than a few times let alone in fractals.  I've literally done hundreds of sets of T4 fractals.  I have full heal stat gear with monk runes.

 

My computer loads slow, so when I loaded in in the Reef and Underground Facility the party was already fighting the first mobs and taking damage.  I suspect they didn't realize I wasn't there yet, which likely made them feel I wasn't healing.

 

I've never had an issue with a group which should be evidence for itself and fractals are always clean and fast.  To be open, I hardly ever use the F2 heal skills.  In my experience the party is always at 100% hp.  I use my pages for strategic of F3 for stability, bubble or the 5 defence skill.  If we're in a really hairy fractal with bad compounding instabilities I'll use F2 but I found I've never needed it besides that.

 

The person had all their pots so they've certainly done fractals themselves.  I wonder how many as in my experience and even with good players sometimes the fractal instance and its instabilities can add up in very harsh ways to play.  imo this is the nature of fractals, and in the chaos of battle you'll sometimes need to press a heal or evade button once.    I'm not sure if it is reasonable to expect to be at 100% hp in every fractal at all times.  Sometimes things can get really ugly and you may have to press your own heal button.  I got a sense of elitism based on a couple of their comments but was surprised when I got booted regardless.

 

What are your thoughts?

Hey! From what I read in your response it seems you have a good enough understanding of firebrand that I doubt you did much wrong. Time of Resolve has its uses in certain fractals/situations in regards to clearing conditions, but generally speaking I most use it to buff my sustained healing (#4) when reflects aren't needed during an encounter or big burst heals (spamming #1).

 

Something I recommend is making sure you always have master of consecrations in virtues going. Makes your consecrations last longer. For the volcano fight when the boss bubbles an alternative to using reflect #3 is using wall of reflection + tome of Courage #4 for AoE resistance.

 

The guardian changes recently aren't what impacted it the most for PvE, it was the prior removal of aegis from the mantra heal. I used to hard carry even the worst of groups because you could block big mechanics for them. In reference to the volcano boss, in an ideal situation you are: reflecting his arrow shots, giving aegis to block his swoop attack (or stability to prevent the knockback), resistance + reflects for the lava worms during the bubble phase. When the boss casts lava fonts you need fo be keeping as much of your sustained healing up (through symbols, regen, Resolve sharing, bow of truth, etc). However, with certain instabilities it may not enough to outheal them entirely.

 

Lastly, my thoughts on your group as someone who has played firebrand for years almost exclusively as a healer. The worst groups I tend to have are the ones that have people starbursting everywhere from you, one guy running off in one direction, another in a different one - while they leave their healer and remaining party members behind. When they go down, then blame you for not healing them. I feel like this was your problem rather than something you did wrong. I know it's frustrating because as a healer you want to create the best experience for the group as possible, but some players will complain no matter what you do or how good you are - this is just a result of our current "me first" society. That mesmer complaining about having to use distortion - head over to the mesmer forums and take a look at their current demands and the treatment of any commenter who isn't part of their groupthink - you'll see what I mean. 

[Mell.4873]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:14 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

I have to say that is a really bad example though. People would likely rage at you for running inspiration virtuoso since even inspiration chrono typically isn't healing unless running minstrel for tanking ; the power conversion to healing power while using Healing Prism minor trait is 13% (so it leads to ~300 healing power) meaning about 300 healing per blade with Illusionary Inspiration. Power virtuoso would be giving up either Vicious Expression (and Fragility) or Superiority Complex at a minimum ; I'm not sure how a condi virtuoso would work without Dueling's Sharper Images or the Low Intensity variant's Chaotic Persistence and Illusionary Membrane.

That's a far weaker proposition than say swapping tactics traits onto a warrior (Soldier's Comfort instead of Leg Specialist, Vigorous Shouts instead of Martial Cadence) or blood magic onto a condi scourge (which isn't a healer unless you play with plaguedoctor stats , but runs Desert Empowerment on the DPS build already). On the other hand if you are playing an alacrity role and not a DPS role you could probably run the cele variant of renegade or tempest with few if any build changes as the healing skillset is always present (Soulcleave, warhorn 4/5 on water). If thief had better cleave on condi specter poutside of shroud then that would be another build that people would be bringing in fractals; condi barrier specter has been a offmeta build in the past that requires zero healing power.

Regardless for the particular scenario of virtuoso, mechanists, and DH (which has high burst and an AoE pull) it is quite clear that the people weren't that great themselves since if they had the cleave (which should be a non-issue with that setup as virtuosos and mechanists both cleave 5 targets) they would have rallied and even without healing they would not have died.

I mean he was the primary healer so anyone else would have just been a backup. Honestly one of the other reasons to run Inspiration in fractals is you get access to feedback via a trait. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Mell.4873