ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Joko the Benevolent is here once again to grace your feeble mortal minds with pearls of ageless wisdom. (You may bow now.) Shrug it Off! is atm nothing more than a "sideeffect" trait. It's a complete mess of a trait that's supposed to compete Empower Allies or Warrior's Cunning. Obviously it does not. That's not to say this trait has issues, much so as the trait itself is a one big issue.1. AoE stunbreak tied to.....receving one condition??? This part is most disgusting. A powerful effect (so budget-heavy) is tied to completely random activation rule, nearly completely taking away warrior's own agency in using it, or having a good trait here (because on paper it does team stunbreak so it's already powerful).2. Extremely weak conditon removal Most likely due to aoe stunbreak functionality the actual condition cleansing is very weak - on random condition is nothing to sing praises about. Unlike Joko himself.3. Questionable healing component Joko the Mending enjoys healing his minio... .allies. But to heal only when a damaging condition is removed is very questionable, especially as the trait offers nothing in terms of focusing your condi cleansing on said damaging conditions first and foremost. As such Joko the Merciful offers .. (Mordent Crescent forces draw blades) following solutions to this situation. 1. The aoe stunbreak component be removed in favor of giving more power to condition cleansing or it's trigger changed to becoming hard cc'd or at least hard cc'd by condition (so being feared or taunted). Preferably the former. 2. Add "Your shouts remove conditions" functionality, to flow with the anti-condi theme. 2 condies for pve, 1 for pvp or wvw. Now the passive "Shake it off!" will actually do something and shout builds will reap actual benefits. 3. Healing component be simply activated by removing a condition, no questions asked about if it's damaging/non damaging, or "Your shout skills prioritize damaging condition removal" (applies to rune of the soldier/trooper effect as well). 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Didly Tastic.7169 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I appreciate any Joko RP. While I can't say I'd know how to improve the skill, I do know that since I picked warrior back up again (against my better judgement), I will say that I agree. The skill is pretty much a dud. Currently it feels like one of those talents in a single player game that looks useful on paper, but in practice, it's very wanting. You know the ones, they literally exist for you to realize they are bad, and get a rush from picking something better. Like sure, it can do something nice, but completely at random, which makes it inconsistent and basically worthless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: Joko the Benevolent is here once again to grace your feeble mortal minds with pearls of ageless wisdom. (You may bow now.) Shrug it Off! is atm nothing more than a "sideeffect" trait. It's a complete mess of a trait that's supposed to compete Empower Allies or Warrior's Cunning. Obviously it does not. That's not to say this trait has issues, much so as the trait itself is a one big issue.1. AoE stunbreak tied to.....receving one condition??? This part is most disgusting. A powerful effect (so budget-heavy) is tied to completely random activation rule, nearly completely taking away warrior's own agency in using it, or having a good trait here (because on paper it does team stunbreak so it's already powerful). 2. Extremely weak conditon removal Most likely due to aoe stunbreak functionality the actual condition cleansing is very weak - on random condition is nothing to sing praises about. Unlike Joko himself.3. Questionable healing component Joko the Mending enjoys healing his minio... .allies. But to heal only when a damaging condition is removed is very questionable, especially as the trait offers nothing in terms of focusing your condi cleansing on said damaging conditions first and foremost. As such Joko the Merciful offers .. (Mordent Crescent forces draw blades) following solutions to this situation. 1. The aoe stunbreak component be removed in favor of giving more power to condition cleansing or it's trigger changed to becoming hard cc'd or at least hard cc'd by condition (so being feared or taunted). Preferably the former. 2. Add "Your shouts remove conditions" functionality, to flow with the anti-condi theme. 2 condies for pve, 1 for pvp or wvw. Now the passive "Shake it off!" will actually do something and shout builds will reap actual benefits. 3. Healing component be simply activated by removing a condition, no questions asked about if it's damaging/non damaging, or "Your shout skills prioritize damaging condition removal" (applies to rune of the soldier/trooper effect as well). 1) The activation criteria is very easily met, sure, but it's cool down is affected by VS, so it procs often in a fights (WvW/PvE but not really in PvP). So, there is value to the activation being so easy to meet. 2) The amount of condition removal is what Shake it Off was originally. It does need to be increased, maybe not to 4 conditions, but certainly 2. 3) I'll agree with you on this one. This is one of the things that I feel holds Tactics back from being a great support line. If this healed, for the same amount, on cleansing any condition, then Warhorn would gain lots of value as a support weapon. It may have to have the base healing lowered and a caveat that it heals other allies for more, with that increased amount being the current total. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: 1) The activation criteria is very easily met, sure, but it's cool down is affected by VS, so it procs often in a fights (WvW/PvE but not really in PvP). So, there is value to the activation being so easy to meet. That's the problem. This is an AoE stunbreak that cannot be used properly becuase any old random condi triggers the trait. While the trait itself is limited becuase the stunbreak (that will rarely see proper use) is taking up a lot of power budget... 8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: 2) The amount of condition removal is what Shake it Off was originally. It does need to be increased, maybe not to 4 conditions, but certainly 2. Well then we can stick with one condi cleansed for all game modes. Real Shake it off will now cleanse 3 condies in PvE, 5 in pvp (but no ammo there). Other shouts one condi. Edited February 9, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: Joko the Benevolent is here once again to grace your feeble mortal minds with pearls of ageless wisdom. (You may bow now.) Shrug it Off! is atm nothing more than a "sideeffect" trait. It's a complete mess of a trait that's supposed to compete Empower Allies or Warrior's Cunning. Obviously it does not. That's not to say this trait has issues, much so as the trait itself is a one big issue.1. AoE stunbreak tied to.....receving one condition??? This part is most disgusting. A powerful effect (so budget-heavy) is tied to completely random activation rule, nearly completely taking away warrior's own agency in using it, or having a good trait here (because on paper it does team stunbreak so it's already powerful).2. Extremely weak conditon removal Most likely due to aoe stunbreak functionality the actual condition cleansing is very weak - on random condition is nothing to sing praises about. Unlike Joko himself.3. Questionable healing component Joko the Mending enjoys healing his minio... .allies. But to heal only when a damaging condition is removed is very questionable, especially as the trait offers nothing in terms of focusing your condi cleansing on said damaging conditions first and foremost. As such Joko the Merciful offers .. (Mordent Crescent forces draw blades) following solutions to this situation. 1. The aoe stunbreak component be removed in favor of giving more power to condition cleansing or it's trigger changed to becoming hard cc'd or at least hard cc'd by condition (so being feared or taunted). Preferably the former. 2. Add "Your shouts remove conditions" functionality, to flow with the anti-condi theme. 2 condies for pve, 1 for pvp or wvw. Now the passive "Shake it off!" will actually do something and shout builds will reap actual benefits. 3. Healing component be simply activated by removing a condition, no questions asked about if it's damaging/non damaging, or "Your shout skills prioritize damaging condition removal" (applies to rune of the soldier/trooper effect as well). I really like the idea of adding "shouts cleanse conditions" to the trait. That would be an easy way to add a good bit of value--which is under the player's control, unlike the random triggering of shake it off currently. Now if they only reworked "On My Mark" to something useful.... Edited February 9, 2023 by CalmTheStorm.2364 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: Now if they only reworked "On My Mark" to something useful.... AoE vuln + Reveal, no target needed, would be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: AoE vuln + Reveal, no target needed, would be fine. That'd be fine. But I'd really rather have a defensive shout; would work better with vigorous shouts/support. I'd love to see a shout that provided 5s of protection, resolution, and resistance; single charge, 25s CD. Coupled with the healing from VS, you could make some pretty powerful support/hybrid builds. Plus, those boons are needed by many warrior builds, so it could see play even if you're not running tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: That'd be fine. But I'd really rather have a defensive shout; would work better with vigorous shouts/support. I'd love to see a shout that provided 5s of protection, resolution, and resistance; single charge, 25s CD. Coupled with the healing from VS, you could make some pretty powerful support/hybrid builds. Plus, those boons are needed by many warrior builds, so it could see play even if you're not running tactics. I think that would have to end up on some elite shout in the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: That'd be fine. But I'd really rather have a defensive shout; would work better with vigorous shouts/support. I'd love to see a shout that provided 5s of protection, resolution, and resistance; single charge, 25s CD. Coupled with the healing from VS, you could make some pretty powerful support/hybrid builds. Plus, those boons are needed by many warrior builds, so it could see play even if you're not running tactics. That and "On my Mark!" is crucial for dealing with thieves in competitive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 41 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: That and "On my Mark!" is crucial for dealing with thieves in competitive. I mean... It's so "crucial" that literally no one uses it unless they are running vigorous shouts so they can get extra heals. I think we could lose the reveal function and it would have barely any effect on warrior as a whole, just thinking about how seldom the skill is currently used. Replacing it with a powerful defensive skill, however, would almost certainly see play in a variety of situations. 53 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: I think that would have to end up on some elite shout in the end. I suggest the shout be, "I Shoulda Played Guardian!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: I mean... It's so "crucial" that literally no one uses it unless they are running vigorous shouts so they can get extra heals. I think we could lose the reveal function and it would have barely any effect on warrior as a whole, just thinking about how seldom the skill is currently used. Replacing it with a powerful defensive skill, however, would almost certainly see play in a variety of situations. If it were an AoE application that didn't need a target you bet you shiny gorget that it would get run. 1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: I suggest the shout be, "I Shoulda Played Guardian!" "Watch Out!" or "There's Nothing to Fear!" Allies in the area gain protection, resolution, and regeneration for 5s, 2 ammo, 5s between uses, 20s/40s CD (PvE/Comp). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: If it were an AoE application that didn't need a target you bet you shiny gorget that it would get run. "Watch Out!" or "There's Nothing to Fear!" Allies in the area gain protection, resolution, and regeneration for 5s, 2 ammo, 5s between uses, 20s/40s CD (PvE/Comp). "Your pants are on FIRE!" inflicts 3 stacks of burning. Double stacks if the target was lying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I always thought warr elite shout should basically be mantra of liberation which would bring some additional stability options in wvw squad and maybe some variety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said: I always thought warr elite shout should basically be mantra of liberation which would bring some additional stability options in wvw squad and maybe some variety. We got stab on a banner, as well as barrier, so that is not as needed. What we do need is some more AoE defensive boons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: We got stab on a banner, as well as barrier, so that is not as needed. What we do need is some more AoE defensive boons. Well that was purely from wvw squad play perspective where you basically want multiple stack 100% stab uptime during the fight. That measly banner uptime doesnt seem usefull much. But I have been also on wvw pause for some time now and I think fb stab has been nerfed so I am not sure about the current squad meta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 5:55 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: Joko the Benevolent is here once again to grace your feeble mortal minds with pearls of ageless wisdom. (You may bow now.) I didn't read the rest but this person has the correct opinion on whatever they're talking about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: I didn't read the rest but this person has the correct opinion on whatever they're talking about. Braise Joko! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eXruina.4956 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 9:52 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Braise Joko! mmmm..~ lich bone soup, yummy. 🤤 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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