I like the changes to FB. I want the devs to continue balancing it. My suggestions.

[Bewt.9258]

With all these threads being created by people who can't adapt, I wanted to make one that was positive. I want Anet to know that not all Guardian mains feel the same way about the recent changes to FB. 

 

A little bit of my perspective. I've been playing FB since it was released with PoF. I mainly played a HFB, both in Fractals and sPvP.

 

The tome changes for me are nearly perfect. I'm an enjoyer for the kit swapping gameplay of a core condi engie and with the recent addition of the short CD exiting a tome, they now feel more like that kit swapping gameplay that I love.

 

I like that the identity of mantra skills has returned. I did not like the boring ammo style "mash button on CD" gameplay. However, I do not think that the work on mantras should be considered done.

 

Here are some suggestions I would love to see to FB.

- Tome page skills can be stowed/cancelled. We can do this now if we exit the tome and hit stow, but I would want to be able to stow skills without leaving the tome.

- The guardian blocks for the duration it takes to channel a Mantra. This should be tied to a trait, but it would solve the problem of having the Guardian be a sitting duck as they are channeling.

- Echo of Truth is no longer a 450 range cone, instead it is a 900 range ability that requires a target and hits other enemies in a 180 radius. The blind and weakness is increased to 2sec in PvP.

- FB needs more access to resistance for sPvP. Stoic Demeanor is good, but not at the cost of not taking Loremaster.

[zealex.9410]

You can still jump and move during mantra channels making most potential attacks avoidable, imo having to channel at the right time in a hectic fight is part of the mastery and blocking dmg while doing so would remove that.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

16 hours ago, Bailios.7518 said:

- The guardian blocks for the duration it takes to channel a Mantra. This should be tied to a trait, but it would solve the problem of having the Guardian be a sitting duck as they are channeling.

I love this idea as a trait selection. It would need stiff competition with another good trait to be balanced tho. Probably a GM.

[DarkSoul.2348]

+1 I Support exploring better Skills and Balance, my only 2 cents would be perhaps consider the release of them not breaking the current specs rotation if it has one it is a little un-comfy playing them while they are a work in progress, however i know managing these things is all time money and development for the team so all that considered it may be the best way from their working perspective to roll out reworks and balance changes. I Honestly feel the channeling thing is kinda okay if the final charge gets a buff like maybe and extra page return, and possible lessen the cd its the stacking of cd plus casting that feels too slow for me.Should mantras always return a page on final charge rather than only when on Trait? Not sure tbh but something to think on i guess,it kinda feels like taking the extra page trait for tomes when it first reworked felt like the only viable choice in the trait line something i hope they can work on, i love when all traits can be viable choices without one standing alone as well if i dont take this then the spec just doesn't play good or work at all in extreme cases.WVW tho needs the out of combat auto charge at least for now  imo Still Overall Totally better than boring ammo charged static mantra skills 100%, anyway good post i agree positive discussing and providing our own input creates a good vibe, Believe me I understand sometimes immediate change feels horrible and a  forum venting is needed :D, but moving forward together as the community and Dev team we can hopefully all be enjoying the games improvements sooner than later right. Good luck on you adventures!!

[draxynnic.3719]

Blocking for the entire duration seems a bit strong, since that reaches the point where you'd definitely use it just to get mega self-sustain. Could maybe grant Aegis if you take the mantra trait.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Blocking for the entire duration seems a bit strong, since that reaches the point where you'd definitely use it just to get mega self-sustain. Could maybe grant Aegis if you take the mantra trait.

2s block is really strong but not unheard of for guards. I had thought aegis might be better too, but then I realized having more self-sustain for FB might be a good thing. It's one of the things they struggle with, especially when solo. 

EDIT: Doesn't have to be the full duration either, just maybe the second half as you gain power from the mantra. Gives it some thematic weight. Also rewards pvp opponents that have quick reaction for counter play, while still helping the FB manage the longer cast time in competitive modes.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Alastor.3054]

Good for you! for me on the other hand It was a disaster, I didn't like the changes on the mantras at all! FB was all I was playing and had 5 builds for it, and sadly I don't enjoy alts so I uninstalled, it was fun while it lasted.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:04 PM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

2s block is really strong but not unheard of for guards. I had thought aegis might be better too, but then I realized having more self-sustain for FB might be a good thing. It's one of the things they struggle with, especially when solo. 

EDIT: Doesn't have to be the full duration either, just maybe the second half as you gain power from the mantra. Gives it some thematic weight. Also rewards pvp opponents that have quick reaction for counter play, while still helping the FB manage the longer cast time in competitive modes.

2s block certainly isn't unheard of for guards, but a full bar of mantras could result in cycling through a LOT of blocks before the firebrand runs out, especially if mixed in with other sources of block.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

2s block certainly isn't unheard of for guards, but a full bar of mantras could result in cycling through a LOT of blocks before the firebrand runs out, especially if mixed in with other sources of block.

Oh for sure. An ICD for the trait will certainly be needed and probably at least 30s.

[Bewt.9258]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:54 AM, zealex.9410 said:

You can still jump and move during mantra channels making most potential attacks avoidable, imo having to channel at the right time in a hectic fight is part of the mastery and blocking dmg while doing so would remove that.

If the FBs form of mitigation from pressure while charging his mantras in combat is jumping on boxes, than FB will remain in F tier (for sPvP). At least a Mesmer can distort, stealth or port (away from an enemy) while doing so.

[Bewt.9258]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:11 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

2s block certainly isn't unheard of for guards, but a full bar of mantras could result in cycling through a LOT of blocks before the firebrand runs out, especially if mixed in with other sources of block.

You have a point. Blocks seemed like an obvious class identity mechanic that suits a Guardian spec. But it doesn't have to be blocks per-say or it doesn't have to be a long duration of a block. (speaking specifically about the sPvP game mode) My argument is that FB definitely needs better mitigation and the kind of mitigation that can be reactive. There's good mitigation in Tome skills but they all have far too long of a cast time. By the time you try to open a tome and use a skill reactively, the moment to use that skill is way past gone. That's also why I would like to see Tome skills be self-cancelable at least. So the FB can recorrect according to what is happening in the battle without wasting a page.

 

Than the skills that do look like they were designed to be used reactively like Echo of Truth or Portent of Freedom give out such a pitiful duration of blind/stab that you'd never be able to make consistent use of them.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Bailios.7518

[zealex.9410]

8 hours ago, Bailios.7518 said:

If the FBs form of mitigation from pressure while charging his mantras in combat is jumping on boxes, than FB will remain in F tier (for sPvP). At least a Mesmer can distort, stealth or port (away from an enemy) while doing so.

What about a mesmer charging their mantras? Its every class with mantras need s to learn to do well. usijg a port or a distort is a huge investment for a mantra, you are better off abusing terain to get it out. Mantras went from zero counter play to having a solid counterplay, not to mention firebrand was weak in pvp while mantras had no downside, its not the mantras keeping fb down.

Edited March 7, 2023 by zealex.9410

[Bewt.9258]

2 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

What about a mesmer charging their mantras? Its every class with mantras need s to learn to do well. usijg a port or a distort is a huge investment for a mantra, you are better off abusing terain to get it out. Mantras went from zero counter play to having a solid counterplay, not to mention firebrand was weak in pvp while mantras had no downside, its not the mantras keeping fb down.

The point is FB is a sitting duck charging it's mantras. We're talking about one of if not the slowest movement spec, and one of if not the lowest representation in sPvP. The best pvpers in the game can't make the spec work no matter how many boxes and terrain they use to try to avoid pressure. The spec just melts. So my initial reaction is to try and come up with ways that the FB could mitigate more of that pressure without boxes or terrain. Ideally you'd just use what the spec is good for which is Quickness in order to get the mantra charging out of the way. Yes, in my opinion, all of the FBs mantras are keeping it down in sPvP. Not the only thing keeping it down, but they all do such a pitiful job that in my eyes they do need more umph. I do like the charging, I just think there could be an opportunity to do more here (in terms of not having the FB melt the second an enemy glances at it).

Edited March 7, 2023 by Bailios.7518

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:19 PM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I love this idea as a trait selection. It would need stiff competition with another good trait to be balanced tho. Probably a GM.

That's almost how Aegis worked in gw1, but with 50% rate of block over x seconds.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[JPUlisses.8756]

It just needs a bit more nerfs and maybe while still being the best support maybe it is a bit more fair and maybe one day not demanded in every WvW