Balance adjustment, Eviscerate and Kill shot

[Shinja.3451]

Eviscerate and Killshot
These abilities should have a base power coefficient of 3.0, at level 2 of 4.0 and at level 3 of 5.0 and in their competitive versions of 1.8 / 2.4 / 3.0 - their damage, cast time, and animation feel like a waste of time and have long since lost their impact on the game, from dealing the highest damage abilities in one hit to being normal abilities with slow animations.

Eviscerate never made sense that it gave might, instead of a damage boost or other things, only in raids and in competitive it wasn't even an improvement.
It's just damage adjustment, how hard can it be... (proceeds to blow up the game and servers)

[Shadowwaka.1952]

I'm not sure how it'd be in action, but your talk on Eviscerate getting a damage boost made me think it might be cool if the skill removed all might stacks currently on the player but did extra damage based on number of stacks removed, kinda like Elementalist's Flame Expulsion. It'd give the ability big finishing move vibes, which is kinda neat imo, and it'd reward people who can stack might well

Edited March 10, 2023 by Shadowwaka.1952
Explain more

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

58 minutes ago, Shadowwaka.1952 said:

I'm not sure how it'd be in action, but your talk on Eviscerate getting a damage boost made me think it might be cool if the skill removed all might stacks currently on the player but did extra damage based on number of stacks removed, kinda like Elementalist's Flame Expulsion. It'd give the ability big finishing move vibes, which is kinda neat imo, and it'd reward people who can stack might well

It would have to be a lot of extra damage, which would be unhealthy. Eviscerate could do more, sure, especially in competitive play, but not like that.

I'd say raise the base damage by 15% across the board on Core F1s at all tiers, then change Burst Mastery to deal an extra 5% damage on a Burst per tier (i.e. a T1 gets an extra 5% damage, but a T3 gets an extra 15%).

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:38 PM, Shinja.3451 said:

Eviscerate and Killshot
These abilities should have a base power coefficient of 3.0, at level 2 of 4.0 and at level 3 of 5.0 and in their competitive versions of 1.8 / 2.4 / 3.0 - their damage, cast time, and animation feel like a waste of time and have long since lost their impact on the game, from dealing the highest damage abilities in one hit to being normal abilities with slow animations.

Eviscerate never made sense that it gave might, instead of a damage boost or other things, only in raids and in competitive it wasn't even an improvement.
It's just damage adjustment, how hard can it be... (proceeds to blow up the game and servers)

Idk about those coefficients, but they definitely should hit harder.  Kill shot should also have a unique audio indicator and a bit more visual if it hits harder. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Idk about those coefficients, but they definitely should hit harder.  Kill shot should also have a unique audio indicator and a bit more visual if it hits harder. 

The kneeling warrior isn't enough of a visual?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

51 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The kneeling warrior isn't enough of a visual?

Yes but consider the following:

You're xvxing on point and there's an asura warrior kneeling offscreen.

You're in a zerg and a warrior is looking at you. 

If it's going to hit you for like 9-10k, there needs to be a more audible ding so you know to look for it, and some kind of indicator that you can identify at a glance.  It doesnt need to be loud or anything- something subtle like The Prestige or Prime Light Beam charging sounds/visuals should do fine.  even if those skills happen in a direction I'm not looking, the sound makes it fair play if Its aimed at me.

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Yes but consider the following:

You're xvxing on point and there's an asura warrior kneeling offscreen.

Rats don't kneel from what I'm told fwiw. TBH it's no different that a Rapid Fire coming from off screen and this is where situational awareness differentiates players. Both those skills are coming from 1500 away, by the time you see any new SFX they may add you're window for reacting to it is gone.

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You're in a zerg and a warrior is looking at you. 

If it's going to hit you for like 9-10k, there needs to be a more audible ding so you know to look for it, and some kind of indicator that you can identify at a glance.  It doesnt need to be loud or anything- something subtle like The Prestige or Prime Light Beam charging sounds/visuals should do fine.  even if those skills happen in a direction I'm not looking, the sound makes it fair play if Its aimed at me.

 

Here though you'll end up with SFX culling issues.  There is a lot that just doesn't render, so even here any new SFX will either not render or get lost in the SFX vomit that does render from the zerg.

Should Rifle skills in general get some SFX love? Sure. But is adding more SFX vomit going to help provide a more visual tell than the warrior kneel? Not in these two scenarios.

[Lighter.5631]

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Yes but consider the following:

You're xvxing on point and there's an asura warrior kneeling offscreen.

 

 

standard model

i never have problem dodging killshot

if anything, stuff like other classes kills faster with less wind up, even tho with more hits

[eXruina.4956]

2 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

if anything, stuff like other classes kills faster with less wind up, even tho with more hits

from stealth or pre-cast into a teleport. 🙂

 

fun, interactive and plenty of counterplay. 🤣

[Vancho.8750]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:45 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Rats don't kneel from what I'm told fwiw. TBH it's no different that a Rapid Fire coming from off screen and this is where situational awareness differentiates players. Both those skills are coming from 1500 away, by the time you see any new SFX they may add you're window for reacting to it is gone.

Here though you'll end up with SFX culling issues.  There is a lot that just doesn't render, so even here any new SFX will either not render or get lost in the SFX vomit that does render from the zerg.

Should Rifle skills in general get some SFX love? Sure. But is adding more SFX vomit going to help provide a more visual tell than the warrior kneel? Not in these two scenarios.

Even if it is not about the telegraph the Audio Visual queue doesn't feel good on kill shot, it just feels floaty and anemic, it is just not cool and feels kinda bad to use. Allot of the core burst skills lack that cool factor and feel floaty and it gets worse when you can compare them to the primal bursts on Berserker where the audio visual queue is present.
DH has Tue shot which is basically the same thing as Kill shot but it does feel cooler to use while also has better telegraph that doesn't look like basic attack. 

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

DH has Tue shot which is basically the same thing as Kill shot but it does feel cooler to use while also has better telegraph that doesn't look like basic attack. 

yeah, trueshot, with no adrenaline requirement and does full damage outright.

 

yeah. 🤔🤣

Edited March 13, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Even if it is not about the telegraph the Audio Visual queue doesn't feel good on kill shot, it just feels floaty and anemic, it is just not cool and feels kinda bad to use. Allot of the core burst skills lack that cool factor and feel floaty and it gets worse when you can compare them to the primal bursts on Berserker where the audio visual queue is present.
DH has Tue shot which is basically the same thing as Kill shot but it does feel cooler to use while also has better telegraph that doesn't look like basic attack. 

Well, they didn't exactly fill warrior up with flashy skills did they.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I swing my sword. I swing my sword again. I swing my sword again, but this time it's a lot of times and I yell at the end.

Meanwhile, an ele casually summons a meteor shower...

But kitten do I love swinging that sword.

[Myror.7521]

@eXruina.4956

We will Not question Things why we need to spend our Adrenalin for skills that are worse than some classes normal skills kekw. xd

 

(Also I am Back after get blocked for say that i leave PvP lul)

 

[Vancho.8750]

22 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, they didn't exactly fill warrior up with flashy skills did they.

It doesn't need to be flashy it just needs to feel good, like Decapitate on Berserker it is not flashy at all but that hit register is always feel good. Even if Kill shot does bazilion damage if the animation and sound don't are as now it won't be enjoyable it needs that hit register sauce. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

53 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

It doesn't need to be flashy it just needs to feel good, like Decapitate on Berserker it is not flashy at all but that hit register is always feel good. Even if Kill shot does bazilion damage if the animation and sound don't are as now it won't be enjoyable it needs that hit register sauce. 

Gotcha.

[Shinja.3451]

2 weeks and nothing, you can give anet the best balance patch in the world, even only adjusted to numbers for the minimum work and they make mediocre changes for pvp that were practically useless, bravo, spectacular XD

For the one who asked about the damage coefficients, just do the work yourself to review similar abilities and you will arrive at the answer, needless to say what has already been mentioned, and that they are beautiful numbers, otherwise they would be full of decimals and would be even higher.

[Yaki.9563]

Eviscerate used to be awesome. Now it hardly even feels better than auto-attacking.

 

I threw the standard buffs on, used only core trait lines, took off Berserker's Power trait, and this is what I got:

Autoattack: 10,275 dps

Autoattack + Eviscerate after completing the chain: 10, 453 dps

 

I've done something similar with the sword burst skill and actually lost dps (yes, in power gear but still.

It's no wonder Berserker is lagging in DPS when the whole spec is built around getting to spam a skill that doesn't even outdamage autoattacks.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 hours ago, Yaki.9563 said:

Eviscerate used to be awesome. Now it hardly even feels better than auto-attacking.

 

I threw the standard buffs on, used only core trait lines, took off Berserker's Power trait, and this is what I got:

Autoattack: 10,275 dps

Autoattack + Eviscerate after completing the chain: 10, 453 dps

 

I've done something similar with the sword burst skill and actually lost dps (yes, in power gear but still.

It's no wonder Berserker is lagging in DPS when the whole spec is built around getting to spam a skill that doesn't even outdamage autoattacks.

That is because leaps like Eviscerate are not affected by quickness.

[Myror.7521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 this and also Sword is meant to be a condi weapon on Berserker. Still Eviscerate and its Berserker parth need a Bit of dmg buff