New player: Best place to find builds?

[Sharquavious III.8965]

I started playing about a week ago, my friend bought me the xpacs and we're really only interested in sPVP & WvW rn.

I've been using Metabattle and Guildjen to find viable builds but I saw some discussion that said they're usually outdated.  Of course I came to the forums for some insight but build discussions seem sparse on here.

Are there better options?

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

The information on those sites falter lately. Although what is listed as meta on say metabattle.com is usually a good start point, what is listed as great or lower, is often massively outdated information or just plainly incorrect. They don't seem to care about digging too deep & updating listings that aren't being eyed as current meta. Also what is listed as current meta is not necessarily the only current meta. A lot of times there are builds good enough to be considered meta that should be in those listings, that get completely overlooked.

Realistically, you should directly contact class mains with reputation to get the best current information on a class.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

30 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

I came to the forums for some insight but build discussions seem sparse on here.

Oh that is so not true.

If you were to make a thread that says: "Please discuss best builds" it would probably turn into a meme thread with 20,000 views and roll out 20+ pages of responses over the course of the next couple of months.

The only reason you aren't already seeing that thread is because most people here are veterans who already unerstand these things and the threads they make are in direct discussion usually only against things they think are currently OP or need changing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

What profession are you looking for builds for?

[Sharquavious III.8965]

56 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What profession are you looking for builds for?

Right now I'm enjoying thief and engineer, but I don't want to grenade cheese. I also have a warrior and a guardian. Any of those 4 really 

[Sharquavious III.8965]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Oh that is so not true.

If you were to make a thread that says: "Please discuss best builds" it would probably turn into a meme thread with 20,000 views and roll out 20+ pages of responses over the course of the next couple of months.

The only reason you aren't already seeing that thread is because most people here are veterans who already unerstand these things and the threads they make are in direct discussion usually only against things they think are currently OP or need changing.

Yeah I do see a lot of threads about things like scrapper currently being OP. They're like indirectly build discussions that I do read and gain insight from but I was looking for something more direct if that makes sense. 

[Eugchriss.2046]

12 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Right now I'm enjoying thief and engineer, but I don't want to grenade cheese.

That's a pretty bad mentality. You can't be new and do your own thing. You will be destroyed 99% of the time. You should play whatever "cheese" is untill you are good enough wiht the understanding of the game mechanics, classes/spec mechanics, map awareness, what skill does what. If you don't you are just setting yourself up to frustration.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Right now I'm enjoying thief and engineer, but I don't want to grenade cheese. I also have a warrior and a guardian. Any of those 4 really 

I'll refer you to those specific forums for advice then. As to warrior, have you tried any of the especs? If so, which did you enjoy the most?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

I started playing about a week ago, my friend bought me the xpacs and we're really only interested in sPVP & WvW rn.

I've been using Metabattle and Guildjen to find viable builds but I saw some discussion that said they're usually outdated.  Of course I came to the forums for some insight but build discussions seem sparse on here.

Are there better options?

 

Metabattle has good builds but the only way to find viable ones that aren't outdated by a MaT or two is to be on the arena floor putting it together yourself. 

Start with what Metabattle provides, but watch people in the arena and adjust your builds based on what works. 

Welcome to the mists btw.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

You should play whatever "cheese" is untill you are good enough wiht the understanding of the game mechanics, classes/spec mechanics, map awareness, what skill does what. If you don't you are just setting yourself up to frustration.

 

This is not the way Id put it but this is right.

Putting together a working build on your own requires a lot of foundation. You should know how your class works first, so start with the things that work even if they're cheesy. From there you can make harder to play/less cheesy builds.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sharquavious III.8965]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is not the way Id put it but this is right.

Putting together a working build on your own requires a lot of foundation. You should know how your class works first, so start with the things that work even if they're cheesy. From there you can make harder to play/less cheesy builds.

Yeah this is kinda where I'm at. I definitely did put together the scrapper gnade build I found just to see synergies and try and understand why the build worked, but I didn't want to play it so I've been running mortar scrapper instead to what I'd consider decent success for my time played. I'm definitely not at the point of theorycrafting my own builds.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Yeah this is kinda where I'm at. I definitely did put together the scrapper gnade build I found just to see synergies and try and understand why the build worked, but I didn't want to play it so I've been running mortar scrapper instead to what I'd consider decent success for my time played. I'm definitely not at the point of theorycrafting my own builds.

 

You'll get there. Just keep doing what you're doing. You're going to die a lot btw, but don't get discouraged and eventually youll be able to run some wacky things nobody else uses. 

The builds on metabattle and guildjen only get put there after someone surprises tournament players with it, and at that point it has been played in the arena for months. 

[Sharquavious III.8965]

10 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

That's a pretty bad mentality. You can't be new and do your own thing. You will be destroyed 99% of the time. You should play whatever "cheese" is untill you are good enough wiht the understanding of the game mechanics, classes/spec mechanics, map awareness, what skill does what. If you don't you are just setting yourself up to frustration.

I'm not trying to do my own thing, I'm asking for help here for a reason. I'm okay with cheese builds. I'm just not a fan of that one specifically for some reason, it's just unfun to me and doesn't fit my playstyle or something. 

 

I'm definitely still at the learning and research stage. I spend most of my time out of spvp in the arena dying, looking at my death recap and looking up the skills that killed me. 

[Sharquavious III.8965]

14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'll refer you to those specific forums for advice then. As to warrior, have you tried any of the especs? If so, which did you enjoy the most?

Berserker probably followed by spellbreaker 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Berserker probably followed by spellbreaker 

 

Berserker you say 👀 

If you're on NA I can spar with you on that. Send me a mail~

Edited March 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Berserker probably followed by spellbreaker 

Spellbreaker is in a better spot performance wise, but a lot of people have been enjoying some recent changes to Berserker.  I'd say to take Azure up on their offer for sparing if you are on NA so that you can learn.

For either of those two specs Defense is being run heavily at the moment. Def: bot/mid/mid or bot/mid/bot being what is used typically. If you venture out into WvW or PvE then Def: bottom/top/top becomes godly sustain, but that last one is less effective in PvP but is usable. I can go into more detail on those combinations if it isn't clear from the trait descriptions.

You generally want to take Discipline on any warrior variant that isn't Bladesworn. For both Spellbreaker and Berserker there is a bug that reduces their F2s by more than they are supposed to be reduced. We've pointed it out, but the devs have left it in for whatever reason. From Discipline you'll also have faster weapon swapping. Disc: mid/bot/top if running axe bottom otherwise is pretty much the only viable options in Discipline. You get condi clear on swap, movement skills clear immobilize, increased movement speed, and either more powerful bursts or OP adrenaline gain on Axes along with higher crit damage.

For Berserker: All mid for condi dps, all top for power DPS, all bottom for sustain. You can mix and match of course. Eternal Champion is probably the best choice at the moment due to it increases the versatility of Berserk Mode, especially if you run Resilient Roll from Defense.

In general, though you are best of just loading up traits and trying them out in a safe environment regardless of whatever profession and spec you opt for.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

47 minutes ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

Yeah I do see a lot of threads about things like scrapper currently being OP. They're like indirectly build discussions that I do read and gain insight from but I was looking for something more direct if that makes sense. 

I'll start the trend then.

What I notice are truly the best builds for at least conquest right now, are these variants:

1. Dagger/Shield Greatsword Defense Spellbreakers - Sometimes Hammer can work well in certain matches where there is not a lot of condi and you are able to take Stalwart over Cleanse Ire.
2. Core Guard Support - Power Willbender - Other Guard variants aren't so optimal.
3. Power Vindi for the team fighter - Power Herald for +ing.
4. Power Soulbeast - Condi Druid - Untamed is bad after tele-nerf for both power and condi.
5. Tool Holo for 1v1s - Scrapper for 5v5 games - Other Engi variants not so strong.
6. DP Daredevil seems to have clearly dominant performance again out of all Thief specs, when it's played correctly.
7. Virtuoso if you want to be annoying and hold a node - Chronomancer if you want to actually contribute to team fights.
8. Power Reaper - Condi Harbinger - Both equally important to understand how to play when to play as a Necro.
9. Tempest Support - Scepter Catalyst - Catalyst is currently the #1 most oppressive build in conquest, easily.

I mean we can go into all kinds of debate about how to build these builds correctly, but in a nutshell, that is what you are looking at in current patching for which archetypes have the best performance.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

35 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Spellbreaker is in a better spot performance wise, but a lot of people have been enjoying some recent changes to Berserker.

Dude I've seen some really good Berserker play lately. They are taking the trait that goes invuln when they go into Berserk and they are nearly as defensive as a Spellbreaker with FC. They are very dangerous DPS if you get caught at the wrong time. At this point I feel like the only thing leaving those Berserker builds lacking compared to Spellbreaker, is that they don't have Magebane Tether and can't remove boons like the Spellbreaker. This new Berserker variant rolling around is otherwise very strong, surprisingly.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Dude I've seen some really good Berserker play lately. They are taking the trait that goes invuln when they go into Berserk and they are nearly as defensive as a Spellbreaker with FC. They are very dangerous DPS if you get caught at the wrong time. At this point I feel like the only thing leaving those Berserker builds lacking compared to Spellbreaker, is that they don't have Magebane Tether and can't remove boons like the Spellbreaker. This new Berserker variant rolling around is otherwise very strong, surprisingly.

The numbers are iffy, since you can't get the big deeps without sacking something important, and going the balanced approach you lack some 1 or 2 k damage on the skills to make a difference. But mostly it is the Mobility creep you just don't have way to deal with being kitted, ranged down or sticking to target. This is the reason that SpB is better, people will attack you anyway and you can punish them with FC, but sure as heck is way more fun to Gun Flame or Arc Divider people. Berseker just pays the Warrior tax since most of the core skills are kinda kitten.   

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Dude I've seen some really good Berserker play lately. They are taking the trait that goes invuln when they go into Berserk and they are nearly as defensive as a Spellbreaker with FC. They are very dangerous DPS if you get caught at the wrong time. At this point I feel like the only thing leaving those Berserker builds lacking compared to Spellbreaker, is that they don't have Magebane Tether and can't remove boons like the Spellbreaker. This new Berserker variant rolling around is otherwise very strong, surprisingly.

I did call out that build. It is VERY good sustain. Better in WvW than PvP though and is something that I've been using in both WvW and PvE. I would not advise a beginner to use it though as it relies on good timing and skill shots with Headbutt and knowing when to exit Berserk Mode to maintain that level of sustain without creating too large a gap between periods of strike immunity. I've outplayed condi immob druids with it with only DS and SiO as condi counters, as well as without Discipline (think about that for a moment).

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

23 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I did call out that build. It is VERY good sustain. Better in WvW than PvP though and is something that I've been using in both WvW and PvE. I would not advise a beginner to use it though as it relies on good timing and skill shots with Headbutt and knowing when to exit Berserk Mode to maintain that level of sustain without creating too large a gap between periods of strike immunity. I've outplayed condi immob druids with it with only DS and SiO as condi counters, as well as without Discipline (think about that for a moment).

The strong ones I encounter are also using Defiant Stance to bridge the gap between other defense skills. If done properly, that build is kind of strong.

[Infinity.2876]

side node capping:

longbow dh traps best when defending non-mid points.

d/p daredevil

 

Duelists:

some zerker builds.

condi weaver

power vindi

 

Mid supports:

staff or d/f tempest

core guard w/ shouts

support scrapper

 

dps:

FA cat

untamed (When done well)

holosmith (also done well)

 

bunker:

spellbreaker

chrono (done well)

 

This is from my personal experience and it may be different depending on ranking.

(This list does not include necro to avoid personal bias)

Edited March 14, 2023 by Infinity.2876

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The strong ones I encounter are also using Defiant Stance to bridge the gap between other defense skills. If done properly, that build is kind of strong.

That is one of the skills I pointed out, sorry if the acronym was unclear.

There is less uptime in PvP, but strong when done correctly. In WvW you can wade through a zerg and laugh with the build.

[Kyle.7316]

7 hours ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

I started playing about a week ago, my friend bought me the xpacs and we're really only interested in sPVP & WvW rn.

I've been using Metabattle and Guildjen to find viable builds but I saw some discussion that said they're usually outdated.  Of course I came to the forums for some insight but build discussions seem sparse on here.

Are there better options?

 

Dont use guildjen

 

metabattle is it

[Kstyle.5829]

There really are no good websites. If you look on meta battle most builds have like 2 or 3 reviews.  If you passed middle school math, you know that the average of 3 numbers is not very reliable.  This is because nobody plays this game anymore bc it's a steaming pile of unbalanced garbage.    I think people are attracted to it because they are coming from other mmorpgs and like the notion of PVP without a grind.  But the truth is PVP in mmorpgs is an objectively bad idea and impossible to balance.  If you just want to PVP you should just play one of the new 3rd person mobas that are coming out probably or league, or fighting games.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by Kstyle.5829