gunflame needs to pierce

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

My response was a nihilistic one. Nothing in this game needs to pierce, meanwhile if there is piercing then it is better if gained from a trait rather than be baked piecemeal into skills. I would also not be opposed to each class getting such a trait with extra flavor distinct for each profession.

But you understand that doesn't -and didn't- respond the question you yourself asked? 😄  It's a strong ranged burst skill and there's no reason to add piercing to it now all of the sudden, trait or not.

22 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

i see you are a man of culture. 😎

True, because he understands why it's an awful idea. 😄

Edited April 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

31 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But you understand that doesn't -and didn't- respond the question you yourself asked? 😄  It's a strong ranged burst skill and there's no reason to add piercing to it now all of the sudden, trait or not.

That was an attempt to get the thread back to the original post, followed by what I would do instead. I answered my own question. No, Gunflame does not need to pierce, but then neither does any other skill for that matter.

31 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

True, because he understands why it's an awful idea. 😄

About as aweful idea as it is to have perma upkeep of all boons plus barrier stacking in the zerg on top of that. At least this would counter that some, but then my take on the matter is admittedly nihilistic, so take that for what it is. I gave up on trying to give sensible solutions to Anet only for them to ignore them. Sadly, the Overton Window is a very real thing.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No, Gunflame does not need to pierce

And that's about all that's needed to be said about this weird buff proposal which doesn't fix rifle in any way 😉 

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

About as aweful idea as it is to have perma upkeep of all boons plus barrier stacking in the zerg on top of that. At least this would counter that some, but then my take on the matter is admittedly nihilistic, so take that for what it is. I gave up on trying to give sensible solutions to Anet only for them to ignore them. Sadly, the Overton Window is a very real thing.

At this point, I think I'll need to go about it this way:
1. strawman irrelevant to the thread
2. "something bad is in the game[imo], so lets introduce more bad!" is not a valid argument for... anything.
3. Even if we forget about "1" and "2" -no, piercing 5 targets for 20k+ is not "like boon/barrier upkeep" (which "the piercer" is also influenced by btw).

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

And that's about all that's needed to be said about this weird buff proposal 😉 

And yet, nothing else in this game needs to either, but they do, so it is a fair question to debate. My point was that the skill inherently should not pierce by default, which is what the OP was about, but instead be gained from a trait, which is better from a balance perspective.

[Sobx.1758]

Was mid-editing to comment on the second part. Which question is fair to debate? The one whether gunflame needs pierce? Sure! But for now it seems anyone wanting pierce mostly dodges that question with bad attempts at strawman arguments and "but why nooot?" reversals when "why not" was already explained.

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

My point was that the skill inherently should not pierce by default, which is what the OP was about, but instead be gained from a trait

Ok and my point is that it shouldn't pierce, trait or not. 😉 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Was mid-editing to comment on the second part. Which question is fair to debate? The one whether gunflame needs pierce? Sure! But for now it seems anyone wanting pierce mostly dodges that question with bad attempts at strawman arguments and "but why nooot" when "why not" was already explained.

Me personally, it's already an AoE so it's moot. But as part of a trait that makes all rifle or ranged attacks pierce? Sure. But, that isn't about Gunflame specifically, its about the QOL it would bring to other ranged skills. Gunflame would just become a zerg buster as a side benefit. Anet has been going out of it's way to remove things that impede zergs, so having a high value skill that can put a speed bump in a zergs way is fair game to me.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok and my point is that it shouldn't pierce, trait or not. 😉 

Fine. That's you stance. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that as it is the status quo at the moment. Better Berserkers will work around it, and do. There also isn't anything inherently wrong about buffs, trait or not, that bolster the range game of the class with one of the worst range kits.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And that's about all that's needed to be said about this weird buff proposal which doesn't fix rifle in any way 😉 

At this point, I think I'll need to go about it this way:
1. strawman irrelevant to the thread
2. "something bad is in the game[imo], so lets introduce more bad!" is not a valid argument for... anything.
3. Even if we forget about "1" and "2" -no, piercing 5 targets for 20k+ is not "like boon/barrier upkeep" (which "the piercer" is also influenced by btw).

You misunderstand the point of the Overton Window then it seems.

[eXruina.4956]

also i really think this topic has sailed its course.

 

honestly, warrior's got more pressing matters than arguing wether gunflame should or shouldn't pierce.

 

its just silly. 🤣

[Myror.7521]

I'll take my Care also in this thrait. No it does not need to pierce. It is allready a Bursty CC AoE Skill and can Hit/daze multiple Players. 

 

Also to other Players. No it does not need a Nerf. If you want it to be nerfed then also Nerf fresh Air ele. Cause that one could Deal Same DMG with ways more Defence Option.

 

Peace Out Guys.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Pati.2438

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I approve of anything that buffs AoE against the unholy clumps that is WvW outside of roaming honestly. The current meta for zerg fighting is boring and brain dead imo. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eekasqueak.7850

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Me personally, it's already an AoE so it's moot.

Well "if it's moot because it's already an AoE" then it doesn't need to get additional way to be aoe with addition of pierce, does it? I don't get what logic you're trying to go with here. Something is aoe so it's ok to make it... more aoe? Something affects 3 targets, so lets make it pierce so it can affect more than twice that? What is this take supposed to be?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/129254-gunflame-needs-to-pierce/page/3/#comment-1883996 I have no doubt you understand that too. Duh, that's the very reason you want that random buff in the first place, because it's not at all somehow all the same "since it's already aoe".

12 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You misunderstand the point of the Overton Window then it seems.

Not really, but I sure understand you avoid responding to what you're quoting because you know it doesn't support a random buff you want to see implemented 😉 The nihilist take of "nothing matters, buff everything I want" is sure a "safe one". "Safe" as in making it easy to avoid anything anyone says to keep pushing for a random buff despite literally anything said.

10 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

honestly, warrior's got more pressing matters than arguing wether gunflame should or shouldn't pierce.

True, because it's clear it shouldn't and the avoiding responses from people trying to get that ridiculous, almost random, buff here are more than telling. 😄 

3 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

I'll take my Care also in this thrait. No it does not need to pierce. It is allready a Bursty CC AoE Skill and can Hit/daze multiple Players. 

 

Also to other Players. No it does not need a Nerf. If you want it to be nerfed then also Nerf fresh Air ele. Cause that one could Deal Same DMG with ways more Defence Option.

Exactly.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lonecap.4105]

Figured I’d weigh in here: I don’t think gunflame needs to pierce, and well really that’s what’s keeping it separating from kill shot. We should be discussing kill shot, not gunflame, the best skill on rifle. 
 

I personally want rifle 3 changed the most, I would like some greater utility. It’s the least useful skill in the kit by far. Can we get some daze on rifle 3? Or blinds maybe?

Edited April 18, 2023 by ProverbsofHell.2307

[supreme.3602]

@Sobx.1758 ty for posting my video, friend.

 

Regarding Gun Flame being able to pierce: I would very much like to see this skill being able to do that. It takes up almost everything to get a perfect shot off. It's basically a high risk/high return skill, so having it pierce would balance out the effort needed to succeed in downing enemies.

 

I also have another video out if you'd all like to see it 🙂

 

 

For those who have said that there are a lot of fails when playing something like this, you're absolutely right. Sometimes people are very tanky and sometimes they aren't. But for the most part, it is very easy to pull off a shot which is over 10K.

 

Anyway. I hope you all enjoy this.