Greatsword Reaper is so underwhelming

[Zex Anthon.8673]

The slow cast time on gravedigger is fine. Heavy hitting skills should be well telegraphed and require set up to land. But, they should feel rewarding when you do land them.

Unfortunately for necro a myriad of conditions must be met in addition to landing the attack in order for it to be impactful.

Some changes to make the damage more consistently rewarding:

• Gravedigger grants Might and Fury
• Spiteful Talisman grants a stacking damage buff up to 10% when removing boons

Gravedigger damage after some testing in HOTM:

Highest Damage: 11.4K

• Beserkers + Eagle
• 12 vuln, 25 might
• <50% hp light armor golem
• no boons

Less Glass: 9.4K

• Demolishers + Reaper
• Same conditions as above

More Consistent: 6.4K

• Demolishers + Reaper
• 12 vuln, 25 might

Guaranteed: 3.7K

• Demolishers + Reaper

All the numbers are critical strikes, and I was running spite/curses for fury. Half the time you wont crit if you don't have fury. So if you take any defensive specializations your damage gets neutered.

Lowest Damage: 2.0K

• Demolishers + Reaper
• No Crit
• No Vuln, No Might

And, that's not even accounting for protection.

Necro suffers from extremely restrictive builds due to a lack of utility and its obligation to manage lifeforce. Which limits build diversity. No weapon mobility, no vigor, limited fury, limited stability, low sustain, no active defenses. But at least you have a second health bar. 🤷‍♂️

[Lily.1935]

Do remember that reaper was designed top down to emulate the feeling of being a horror monster like pyramid head or Jason Voorhees. The skills themselves are also designed to emulate this feeling with its rather strong pull and slow attack speed. Giving it a leap would harm that flavor they were going for with the design. So its unlikely they'll add a leap to the weapon.

If you were to ask me, they hit the nail on the head with its design. It feels like a horror monster weapon. It really does. The only thing I'd change to it would be to give a trait which changes gravedigger to another skill which makes it feel like a chainsaw. Probably proc chill a few times as well so we can have some fun with a chill reaper using great sword.

I'm not in favor of changing its design away from its roots. Of course, this conversation about a leap on the greatsword has been ongoing since HoT came out. Its not happening. Especially when we consider that reaper's shroud already has a gap closer.

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 4/5/2023 at 3:14 AM, Lily.1935 said:

Do remember that reaper was designed top down to emulate the feeling of being a horror monster like pyramid head or Jason Voorhees. The skills themselves are also designed to emulate this feeling with its rather strong pull and slow attack speed. Giving it a leap would harm that flavor they were going for with the design. So its unlikely they'll add a leap to the weapon.

If you were to ask me, they hit the nail on the head with its design. It feels like a horror monster weapon. It really does. The only thing I'd change to it would be to give a trait which changes gravedigger to another skill which makes it feel like a chainsaw. Probably proc chill a few times as well so we can have some fun with a chill reaper using great sword.

I'm not in favor of changing its design away from its roots. Of course, this conversation about a leap on the greatsword has been ongoing since HoT came out. Its not happening. Especially when we consider that reaper's shroud already has a gap closer.

Reaper shroud has a leap.

[Dadnir.5038]

8 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Reaper shroud has a leap.

You could also say that those "movie monsters" also seem to be able to teleport in horror movies. They feel slow and heavy in their deeds but it's more of a dramatic build up that an inability to move around.

One could also point out that movie monsters tend to be quite good at being stealthy, their victims often tend to see them when it's (almost) too late.

[Dr Meta.3158]

19 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You could also say that those "movie monsters" also seem to be able to teleport in horror movies. They feel slow and heavy in their deeds but it's more of a dramatic build up that an inability to move around.

One could also point out that movie monsters tend to be quite good at being stealthy, their victims often tend to see them when it's (almost) too late.

Alien is a great monster movie.

[Dadnir.5038]

15 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Alien is a great monster movie.

Yep, so does Nightmare on helm street, Chucky, "It"... etc.

Maybe Harbinger is inspired by Alien... Quick with some acid flowing into their vein...

[Dr Meta.3158]

36 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Yep, so does Nightmare on helm street, Chucky, "It"... etc.

Maybe Harbinger is inspired by Alien... Quick with some acid flowing into their vein...

There are a lot of guns in Alien.

[Lily.1935]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Yep, so does Nightmare on helm street, Chucky, "It"... etc.

Maybe Harbinger is inspired by Alien... Quick with some acid flowing into their vein...

There is no evidence of that. Harbinger was mentioned in interviews that it was inspired by westerns and that sort of thing, but not by horror movie tropes. Which is a break from the previous two elite specs which have clear inspiration from Slasher films and the Mummy. In the first showcase of the reaper when it was revealed they mentioned movie monsters so this isn't a speculation on my part, its just factual. I WISH i could find that old guild chat of the reaper because they directly mention the horror movie stuff and in the scourge preview they directly mention mummies. Harbinger mentions westerns but doesn't mention horror movies or monster tropes.

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

13 minutes ago, Lily.1935 said:

There is no evidence of that. Harbinger was mentioned in interviews that it was inspired by westerns and that sort of thing, but not by horror movie tropes. Which is a break from the previous two elite specs which have clear inspiration from Slasher films and the Mummy. In the first showcase of the reaper when it was revealed they mentioned movie monsters so this isn't a speculation on my part, its just factual. I WISH i could find that old guild chat of the reaper because they directly mention the horror movie stuff and in the scourge preview they directly mention mummies. Harbinger mentions westerns but doesn't mention horror movies or monster tropes.

 

Interesting, so Harbinger was based off the old tropes of Gunslingers and such. Why didn't it get two pistols then? Oh well.

[Lily.1935]

1 minute ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Interesting, so Harbinger was based off the old tropes of Gunslingers and such. Why didn't it get two pistols then? Oh well.

Don't ask me, ask Arena net.

[JDC.7238]

2 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

There is no evidence of that. Harbinger was mentioned in interviews that it was inspired by westerns and that sort of thing, but not by horror movie tropes. Which is a break from the previous two elite specs which have clear inspiration from Slasher films and the Mummy. In the first showcase of the reaper when it was revealed they mentioned movie monsters so this isn't a speculation on my part, its just factual. I WISH i could find that old guild chat of the reaper because they directly mention the horror movie stuff and in the scourge preview they directly mention mummies. Harbinger mentions westerns but doesn't mention horror movies or monster tropes.

 

I think I found the old blog post about the reaper, cause I also remember when they announced reaper it was inspired by horror movies monsters. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-reaper-necromancers-elite-specialization/

[Lily.1935]

1 hour ago, JDC.7238 said:

I think I found the old blog post about the reaper, cause I also remember when they announced reaper it was inspired by horror movies monsters. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-reaper-necromancers-elite-specialization/

You're a saint, thank you! I was looking in the wrong place clearly.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

Quote

This devastating melee brawler is at home in battle when surrounded by as many enemies as possible, cleaving through hapless foes for life-force sustainment. Once the reaper has enough life force, they can transform into a devastating avatar of destruction that leaves enemies frozen in terror.

bwahahahaha 😅😂🤣

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:56 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Maybe Harbinger is inspired by Alien... Quick with some acid flowing into their vein...

That'll explain why I can never kill them. Guess I'm supposed to be sneaking.

[CafPow.1542]

oh man.. i'd sell my Grandma for a leap and faster GS Autos. (not really but you know what i mean).

But, and i'm playing devils advocate here, it was the "Design Thing" of Reaper being slow and stationary, and making it hard for it's opponents to get away from him (that's why he has all the chill effects i guess).

he (and his Greatsword-Skills) are exactly supposed to be that. In PvE that's not a real big issue ofc. But ... i'd still dig it if they changed GS a bit.

[Nimon.7840]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:43 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Reaper shroud has a leap.

 

Yay, a leap that often does one of those 3 things instead of doing what it should:

1. Not leap at all because leaping on the spot is some kind of fetish

2. Selecting random targets for you leap to, even with auto targeting off

3. Leap into a different direction, your target is: If you use gs5, then go shroud and use shroud 2, you will 50% chance charge away from your pulled target, not doing any dmg at all with that shroud 2.

 

While that makes you somewhat unpredictable in pvp settings, it's super annoying to have a skill that only works properly like 30-40% of times used. Not to mention that this skill should have projectile destruction which also only works if you previously sacrificed a green coloured lamb at full moon, when there are 3 imperator cores, with a unicorn horn as a dagger.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Nimon.7840

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 4/11/2023 at 1:19 AM, Nimon.7840 said:

 

Yay, a leap that often does one of those 3 things instead of doing what it should:

1. Not leap at all because leaping on the spot is some kind of fetish

2. Selecting random targets for you leap to, even with auto targeting off

3. Leap into a different direction, your target is: If you use gs5, then go shroud and use shroud 2, you will 50% chance charge away from your pulled target, not doing any dmg at all with that shroud 2.

 

While that makes you somewhat unpredictable in pvp settings, it's super annoying to have a skill that only works properly like 30-40% of times used. Not to mention that this skill should have projectile destruction which also only works if you previously sacrificed a green coloured lamb at full moon, when there are 3 imperator cores, with a unicorn horn as a dagger.

Reaper is like warrior and elementalist. Its clunky and riddled with bugs rather than just riddled with bugs like every class but if you learn it well, its absolutely phenomenal. The only difference is warrior has some beneficial bugs and weird skill mechanics that benefit it while reaper has only detrimental bugs. But like warrior and elementalist, most reaper players are terrible and few are very, very good. Don't expect arenanet to fix the bugs, I'm 90% sure they don't know how to nor are willing to devote time and resources to figure out how to.

Reaper is something you have to learn and play around you can't really bandwagon on reaper and expect to be effective. Its not a Scrapper.

That being said I'll address some things said here.

That article is heavily outdated and even then, it was easy as hell to escape a reaper since the change to mobility skills to not be affected by chill. Its really easy now that every class can teleport too. Reaper also is not exactly an avatar of death that you runaway from. Willbender fits that description instead as a high speed bursty monster that you have to outlast until it runs out of gas and then hope you're fast enough to catch it when it retreats to recharge... like a real horror movie monster. Overall much of what arenanet says a class is, is not actually what it is, what it is good at, or what it is most commonly used for. Druid, scourge, and specter are good examples for a failed support design and oppressive DPS classes. So I wouldn't even take what arenanet says for even a grain of salt. Pay more attention to how the classes are played rather than described. 

Reaper changed from a bruiser to more of a porcelain cannon. It can take a few hits but not much. You need to be mindful of your positioning and your defensive skills or you'll die fast. But this is a better design space anyway because being a HP sponge that doesn't present a threat, is slow, and can't support well isn't a useful thing to have on your team.

Greatsword isn't that bad of a weapon if you learn to use it correctly. If they change GS3 into a 600 range leap finisher, it'll only have one dead skill being GS2 making it a pretty solid weapon for necromancer standards along the lines of Staff. But for the time being, its a nice weapon for meme clips for WvW or something or to make an identity around like hollts did, but even he knew greatsword isn't good despite being one of the few players to learn how to use it to its fullest potential.