Please change moa

[Endo.1652]

Why do people keep mentioning stability? Moa ignores that.

[Hotride.2187]

14 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Why do people keep mentioning stability? Moa ignores that.

From the post I read, the combo is apparently, moa, stun right after that so you can't moa 5 to evade the rest of the combo (and ofc can't stunbreak in moa). Stab will prevent the stun so you can evade (normal dodge or moa 5).

Edited May 19, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Endo.1652]

Quote

From the post I read, the combo is apparently, moa, stun right after that so you can't moa 5 to evade the rest of the combo (and ofc can't stunbreak in moa). Stab will prevent the stun so you can evade (normal dodge or moa 5).

Yeah true that makes sense. Most stab doesnt seem to last long at least. And power chrono has tons of boon strip in the shatters, so I never really ran into that problem.

Usually what counters my moa was a random blind or they just move behind/beside me (it cancels it out XD)

Edited May 19, 2023 by Endorphin.9147

[Waffles.5632]

@Endorphin.9147

It's Moa into pistol 5. That is the specific combo that must land for everything else to go off, hence the stability half countering.

Once they land this, they can do any combo they want to you because you're effectively removed from the game and are free.

What can happen is they moa into pistol 5, proc quickness, use pistol 4, swap to GS and GS 4 into 2 + shatters whenever during this combo. And ofc, CS doubles this all up.

Because of quickness and stealth opening this is all landing inside pistol 5 stun more or less.

 

The only counter to this, if we assume stealth opening, is knowledge+correct prediction. So you'd have to be in a scenario where you have seen the Mesmer stealth, and then you have to correctly time out in your head when they are going to attack. Not realistic and very frustrating IMO, but my hot take opinion is that moa is fine, it's stealth that's the problem once again.  Stealth is however here to stay so I see nerfs to Mes pistol or nerfs to Moa in near future.

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

power chrono has tons of boon strip in the shatters

The sequence is moa > pistol5; the shatters come after that, so stab is valid counterplay. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Blackthunder.8679]

On 5/17/2023 at 7:25 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Defensives are distortion, sword2 and some short stealth.

And that's 3 times more Def then a rifle war which has only....oh it doesn't have kitten.

[Hotride.2187]

4 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

And that's 3 times more Def then a rifle war which has only....oh it doesn't have kitten.

Rifle 4, IMO same as mesmer sword 2. You got endure pain, normally you pair rifle with GS so there is GS 3 and GS 5. The rifle builds I see are also played with defiant stance.

Its really not more glass than power mesmer, its just the dmg that sucks and is harder to land. And no stealth so you are easy to focus and then you run away or die.

[Blackthunder.8679]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Rifle 4, IMO same as mesmer sword 2. You got endure pain, normally you pair rifle with GS so there is GS 3 and GS 5. The rifle builds I see are also played with defiant stance.

I was talking bout gunflame signet build, which has a stunbreak and that's it.

Rifle 4 is kitten cause it shoots first and dodges after it could work the other way around maybe.

GS 3 and GS5 no longer remove immobile in this specc so good luck with that.

[Endo.1652]

@Terrorhuz.4695 @Waffles.5632

Dont worry. I understand the combo. I just dont really run into many problems with stab personally is all. Even if they do have it, moa lasts so long so you can just bait out the moa dodge skill and lockdown/burst after.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

19 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

And that's 3 times more Def then a rifle war which has only....oh it doesn't have kitten.

ENDURE
PAIN

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

ENDURE
PAIN

Hm?

*Looks up from newspaper*

36 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

And that's 3 times more Def then a rifle war which has only....oh it doesn't have kitten.

Rifle war being objectively bad for conquest or 1v1 doesn't mean power chrono is overpowered. (If you're not arguing this, apologies. I havent been paying attention).

I think this is a bad angle to approach this from. There should be more usable defensives on rifle specifically, preferably active ones so that it doesn't stack with current bladesworn. 

Moa is debatable ofc [gestures to thread] 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Waffles.5632]

@Endorphin.9147

Got you and yeah I agree.

I am thinking Moa getting nerfed to 3 sec duration would be a fair compromise for everyone involved in the interaction.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, Waffles.5632 said:

@Endorphin.9147

Got you and yeah I agree.

I am thinking Moa getting nerfed to 3 sec duration would be a fair compromise for everyone involved in the interaction.

Turn it into a projectile and let us reflect it. Give it enough aftercast that mes cant start up pistol 5 while the target is processing "hey, I got turned into a moa" and that if it reflects they can't avoid it without burning a blink or distort or something. 

Then bird's fine. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Waffles.5632]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Turn it into a projectile and let us reflect it.

I don't mind that personally, but then anet would have to get rid of the signet symbol that shows above the head IMO.

And they would need to make the projectile super readable as well because could you imagine a pistol 5 that Moa'd you? 😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I don't mind that personally, but then anet would have to get rid of the signet symbol that shows above the head IMO.

And they would need to make the projectile super readable as well because could you imagine a pistol 5 that Moa'd you? 😂

This is fine if it's readable enough. If it's like True Shot/Gun flame/Magnet pull tier readability I don't really mind the signet icon drop, but I think most if not all signets show up for all characters because of the passives they generate as well. Knowing theres a period of time the mes takes normal damage due to humility being on cd is important too. 

I feel like enough mesmers getting uno-reversed into moas would be all the balance the thing needs tbh

Edited May 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Blackthunder.8679]

25 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Rifle war being objectively bad for conquest or 1v1 doesn't mean power chrono is overpowered. (If you're not arguing this, apologies. I havent been paying attention).

I agree I was only pointing that rifle war (gunflame specifically) doesn't have more def then chrono.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

21 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I feel like enough mesmers getting uno-reversed into moas would be all the balance the thing needs tbh

You're taking a skill whose only purpose is "kill the bunker", and making sure it's not able to kill bunkers anymore.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You're taking a skill whose only purpose is "kill the bunker", and making sure it's not able to kill bunkers anymore.

I mean it obliterates glass players too. It's not specific to bunkers

How would you handle this so it can bunker bust without being a catch all "This engagement is mine" if the mesmer has a pistol?

If it's specifically for bunker busting, then it would also be suitable to narrow the focus to that (I preferably like the "moas do high damage to the mesmer that moa'd them" angle, but I am sure there are other avenues of doing this that would be more feasible.) 

I'm on team "being able to de-lich the necro is objectively good", but it kind of -is- getting used to wash everybody it touches.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Waffles.5632]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I mean it obliterates glass players too. It's not specific to bunkers

How would you handle this so it can bunker bust without being a catch all "This engagement is mine" if the mesmer has a pistol?

If it's specifically for bunker busting, then it would also be suitable to narrow the focus to that (I preferably like the "moas do high damage to the mesmer that moa'd them" angle, but I am sure there are other avenues of doing this that would be more feasible.) 

I'm on team "being able to de-lich the necro is objectively good", but it kind of -is- getting used to wash everybody it touches.

It's only being used so much because Virt/Chrono have tons of access to stealth and distortion w/ chrono requiring more skill to maximize distortion and stealth fully because of CS but Virt getting far easier access to boons like quickness and aegis. Because of this they can free cast and they're covered with defenses as they do so.

Also Virt elite skill is garbage in pvp so there isn't even a competing choice. With Mirage for instance, jaunt is almost required unless you're specifically aiming for something else, but for Virt, Moa and Mass Invis are the go to as Virt elite will never be considered unless meme is one's goal.

On it's own, Moa is an extremely long CD with an extremely long cast time.

However another alternative could be making moa 5 a break free as well as an evade. Perhaps even making more skills on the moa bar break free as well.

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

55 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

@Endorphin.9147

Got you and yeah I agree.

I am thinking Moa getting nerfed to 3 sec duration would be a fair compromise for everyone involved in the interaction.

Throw Elixir X...

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Just now, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Throw Elixir X...

Nobody uses Elixir X, just making note of that. I haven't seen a single engie run that in years. I think the duration needs to be worth it, but am also not for getting blendered before I can even start using the moa skills. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

making moa 5 a break free as well as an evade. 

This is a good idea. If that's the solution to it, also fix Elixir X.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nobody uses Elixir X, just making note of that. I haven't seen a single engie run that in years. I think the duration needs to be worth it, but am also not for getting blendered before I can even start using the moa skills. 

You could increase Moa aftercast or make pistol 5 animation more visible (this should be done imo) or make moa reveal you on cast if you are stealthed

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

If you guys' problem is that you get stunned while in moa and feel like you can't react to it then the problem is pistol 5 (well, or stealth), not moa - you just happen to notice it more when you are moa'd because you don't have any stunbreaks, but skills that inflict 2s stun should have clear and visible animations. There are other similarly toxic crowd control skills in the game but again they aren't noticed as much because you typically have a stunbreak to mitigate the bad game design.

Edit: that said, I remain insistent that power chrono with moa isn't too strong or problematic currently, I mean there is a reason why Rip, Misha and Shorts play gravity well (and condi chrono) in tournaments.

Edited May 19, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I mean it obliterates glass players too. It's not specific to bunkers

Glass players have the damage to pressure the chrono so hard they can't cast anything. If I tried using signet of humility against a herald I'd be dead before the cast goes off (and that's precisely the reason why I don't run signet of illusions either)