why is sword weaver dead in wvw roaming?

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Weaver was substantially more powerful when Bolstered Elements granted stability, Twist of Fate had a 40 second cooldown, and Riptide was on a 12 second cooldown.  Another hit that really hit my water sword build was when Woven Stride was changed to a 5 second ICD, cutting my condi cleansing rate nearly in half.  The Weaver's PVP identity pre-catalyst was based around 3 things:  giving barrier, being really mobile, and also debuffing enemy players.  It could very much still be those, but it would require Anet reverting a couple of past nerfs.  

I would love to see more of that but that not realty too different from what tempest is doing (and as you point out catalyst as well). Weaver needs something only an weaver can do and seeing how weaver is the pure aggressive of the 3 elite spec it should get an aggressive effect that ele dose not have already. I suggest boon strip of some type but there can be other things.

If tempest has alacrity and catalyst has quickness weaver should have something or are we going with barrier support form its duel skills as its class id effect hehe.

Weaver should be the best vs 1-4 tempest and catalyst should only be better vs 5+. Weaver should be THE foaming ele and its not sadly.

[Xaint.7461]

i 1vX in wvw as a roamer with sd fire weaver celestial and been doing so for 3+ years, its probably dead mostly because its outdated and it requires alot of attention / engagement in exchange of reward compared to lets say a solid power meta build etc.. with that said it aint bad at all if u know what u're doing, there's a reason i still 1vX on it to this day, because it can work depending on how u play it out.

 

i think sword in general needs an update on weaver / mainly focused towards the weaver spec but i also understand that it can be hard to adjust it taken that it can be used / abused on other specs or / and in pve where it is still quite strong.

 

speaking of pvp, i still also play sd fire weaver with sage amu + weaver rune and i still hit solo plat 2-3 on it, tho i must say it can really feel harsh and alot of effort just to properly play it out, but its viable even its not meta nor the best state atm.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Xaint.7461

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On 5/26/2023 at 8:30 AM, Jski.6180 said:

I would love to see more of that but that not realty too different from what tempest is doing (and as you point out catalyst as well). Weaver needs something only an weaver can do and seeing how weaver is the pure aggressive of the 3 elite spec it should get an aggressive effect that ele dose not have already. I suggest boon strip of some type but there can be other things.

If tempest has alacrity and catalyst has quickness weaver should have something or are we going with barrier support form its duel skills as its class id effect hehe.

Weaver should be the best vs 1-4 tempest and catalyst should only be better vs 5+. Weaver should be THE foaming ele and its not sadly.

Well, if you want to be technical it does have something that the other ones don't:  More skills.  One of the reasons why I swapped over from playing Herald to Weaver was because I ended up being walled by some tank builds while in full berserker gear.  Herald skills were nerfed to the point where you had to mash all of them in a specific order to get a kill.  Chilling Isolation is a base 1.4 skill if your enemy is alone, Deathstrike is base 1.7, and that was just about it.  In comparison, Flame Uprising is 1.65 with burning, Cauterizing Strike is 1.6 with burning, Quantum Strike is 2.0, Rust Frenzy is 2.0 with bleeding, Earthen Vortex is 1.25 with evade, Twin Strike is 1.5 with burning, Lava skin is 1.67 with burning, Natural Frenzy is 2.36 with bleeding, and Pyro Vortex is 3.64 with burning for any poor soul who stands in it.  Seriously, I've won 1v3 with Pyro Vortex.  I've killed other players by accident with it.

Compared to Herald, Weaver is throwing out those high damage haymakers one after another.  Weaver's gimmick is that it throws 6 additional weapon skills into its toolbox.

[Jski.6180]

13 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Well, if you want to be technical it does have something that the other ones don't:  More skills.  One of the reasons why I swapped over from playing Herald to Weaver was because I ended up being walled by some tank builds while in full berserker gear.  Herald skills were nerfed to the point where you had to mash all of them in a specific order to get a kill.  Chilling Isolation is a base 1.4 skill if your enemy is alone, Deathstrike is base 1.7, and that was just about it.  In comparison, Flame Uprising is 1.65 with burning, Cauterizing Strike is 1.6 with burning, Quantum Strike is 2.0, Rust Frenzy is 2.0 with bleeding, Earthen Vortex is 1.25 with evade, Twin Strike is 1.5 with burning, Lava skin is 1.67 with burning, Natural Frenzy is 2.36 with bleeding, and Pyro Vortex is 3.64 with burning for any poor soul who stands in it.  Seriously, I've won 1v3 with Pyro Vortex.  I've killed other players by accident with it.

Compared to Herald, Weaver is throwing out those high damage haymakers one after another.  Weaver's gimmick is that it throws 6 additional weapon skills into its toolbox.

Unless its a LOT more then what catalyst and tempest (even core ele) you cant say dps is the weaver only effect. Even having more skills that effectively do the same thing as the other ele skills is also not an weaver only effect. The weaver elite spec needs something that tempest and catalyses (core ele as well) can not do. That where you can add effects to the duel skill them self but if all the duel skill is doing is some what more dmg and the same effects then its just an slightly higher dmg ele and not an weaver.

[scerevisiae.1972]

cause all the new EOD specs have either insane ranged damage or insane mobility.

 

sword and hammer both close to useless in wvw group content, not just a sword problem.

[manu.7539]

Is it dead? Probably but I'm still having tons of fun with my sw/d build made to max my mobility. It looks disadvantaged vs many builds but if mobility is good to catch the enemy, its also very useful to run away! Its not dead for me, I still get too much fun and never enjoyed any other class or build like this.

[Kuma.1503]

I still play it and have a decent time with the build. 

My suggestion: Run speed runes. Weaver's biggest weakness isn't it's pressure, it's sustain, it's bulk, or it's cleanse. It's mobility. If you can't land your damage, you have no damage. If you can't kite your opponents or juke skills, you may as well be made of paper. 

I also run Sw/D instead of Sw//F.  For utilities I run both lightning flash and conjure greatsword. These let me chase down mobile builds once I've landed some damage on them and they're trying to kite me and resustain. They can also be useful for escaping bad situations. 

The 180 sec CD on Greatsword doesn't matter as much as in PvP because fights in WvW are spread out, and they can go on for a long time. Especially in Cele vs Cele matchups. 

 

Final tip is to use primordial stance in water attunement more often. Fire/water primordial stance + twin strike will put a lot of chill onto the target. That + your speed runes should let you stick to them. 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Junkpile.7439]

Soon we can play sword core ele

[CETheLucid.3964]

48 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Soon we can play sword core ele

Or sword catalyst. Which is what almost everyone is going to do I'd guess.