when does the greed stop?

[Sugar Min.5834]

1 hour ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Anet's business model is literally to get people to log into their game servers, and play their game. Literally user engagement. Welcome to how online businesses work. 

Online businesses work only when online customers spend real money to buy their online goods/services. User engagement without paying a single cent, does not put money into ANet business accounts.

Recently I spent more than $600 on buying gems to convert them to gold just to buy 4 aurene legendary weapons. Evidents? I did made a topic (in Mar/Apr?) asking about the limits on gem purchases and gold conversions, and if that's not good enough l can show you in game the 4 new leggy weapons I bought.

I would rather spend my time on my personal commitments IRL than spending months grinding for gold. And as I have mentioned in another topic, I am sure there are many players like myself who do not hesitate to spend real money to get what we like and at the same time continue to support this game while those 'user engagement' players brag about how they could play the game for many years without the need to spend any real money.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Gravitron.7982 said:

How about I just meet you in game and show up with a leggo equipped. 

But it wasn't about "just having leggo", it was about you buying it with money. Showing it ingame doesn't show anything you said you'll be doing. Sending it from your other account doesn't mean you did what you write about in this thread. Anyways... I see what you're doing now, no surprise, thanks for the showing answers.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Yeah pretty much this.

Yeah, except he's wrong ... I mean, someone, ANYONE, clearly explain how people converting gold to get gems is making Anet money when it is an substitute to people spending RL money for gems. I'll wait. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

But it wasn't about "just having leggo", it was about you buying it with money. Showing it ingame doesn't show anything you said you'll be doing. Sending it from your other account doesn't mean you did what you write about in this thread. Anyways... I see what you're doing now, no surprise, thanks for the showing answers.

Sorry but I'm not going to share my transactions with strangers, I'm not going to dox myself 🤣

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Sorry but I'm not going to share my transactions with strangers, I'm not going to dox myself 🤣

That's good, since nobody asks you for your transaction details. Anyways, as I said, your responses say enough, no worries 😄 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Cuks.8241]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah, except he's wrong ... I mean, someone clearly explain how people converting gold to get gems is making Anet money when it is an substitute to people spending RL money for gems?

 

Its a trade between 2 players correct? I honestly am not sure. 

If it is, then someone needs to open wallet before gems are on the market. 

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

Its a trade between 2 players correct? I honestly am not sure. 

If it is, then someone needs to open wallet before gems are on the market. 

Exactly.

[Zok.4956]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:27 PM, Blude.6812 said:

"the drops are bad"

The one part of the dissertation that is true.

not all drops are bad. Two precursors dropped for me in WvW (from killed players, I guess). So, those two drops were not bad. 😎

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Its a trade between 2 players correct? I honestly am not sure. 

If it is, then someone needs to open wallet before gems are on the market. 

Hold on ... the question here is what is the revenue that Anet make when someone converts gold to gems? I don't care where those gems come from because we know that they are infinitely available to purchase with RL money. People obtaining gems with gold can only result in a decrease in Anet revenues because the only other alternative to get gems is to spend RL money on them. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Hold on ... the question here is what is the revenue that Anet make when someone converts gold to gems? I don't care where those gems come from. People obtaining gems with gold can only be a decrease in revenues because the alternative is to spend RL money on them. 

There is no alternative. Each gem in game is paid in cash. There is 0 difference for Anet. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

13 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

You get "punished" with needing to play more time. Same as Diablo Immortal. 

And you definitely get punished with lack of qol, artificial problems for which you can buy solutions. 

putting something in "quotes" doesn't make it a thing.  Pay to win is not about QOL its about a deliberate strategy employed in vertical games where those not buying power items from the shop are at a disadvantage competitively.  

Edited June 1, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

There is no alternative. Each gem in game is paid in cash. There is 0 difference for Anet. 

That's not true at all because the gems that are purchased with gold conversion are recycled/traded. Some portion of those gems would be making Anet revenue if gold conversion was not available. Probably not all ... but definitely SOME. 

So again, the answer to the question of 'How does Anet make revenues from gold conversion" is that ... THEY DON'T and the difference for Anet is not zero. The existence of gold conversion does lead to a loss of some revenue for Anet. Gold conversion most definitely doesn't MAKE them money. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

putting something in "quotes" doesn't make it a thing.  Pay to win is not about QOL its about a deliberate strategy employed in vertical games where those not buying power items from the shop are at a disadvantage competitively.  

Exactly. You can buy power in gw2 and you get advantage over other people. That is usually the definition of pay 2 win. Ability to buy power. You can buy power in GW2.

I put it in quotes because it depends on player if he sees it as a punishment. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Exactly. You can buy power in gw2 and you get advantage over other people. That is usually the definition of pay 2 win. Ability to buy power. You can buy power in GW2.

I put it in quotes because it depends on player if he sees it as a punishment. 

Did you read what i've posted or indeed any article on malicious pay to win in mmorpg written in the last 20 years?  GW2 has a power ceiling (as in competitive edge), its impossible to buy a power advantage.  You can buy catch ups, skins, QOL, mount skins,expansions etc etc. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's not true at all because the gems that are purchased with gold conversion are recycled/traded. Those gems would be making Anet revenue if those gold converters had to purchase them with RL money. 

This is where I am not sure. Is the game generating extra gems for the gem to gold trade or not. 

If its not and all the gem to gold trades are between players then each and every single gem is paid in cash and thus makes 0 difference to Anet through how many hands it goes further on. Actually its even better its kept somewhere in the system and not spent on trading post because there are piles of gems that were bought from Anet and not utilised which means more cash for Anet compared if we would have better utilisation. 

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

Did you read what i've posted or indeed any article of malicious pay to win in mmorpg written in the last 20 years?  GW2 has a power ceiling (as in competitive edge), its impossible to buy a power advantage.  You can buy catch ups, skins, QOL, mount skins,expansions etc etc. 

All games (or most) have power ceiling. It only depends how high it is.

Its impossible to buy advantage? So if me and my friend start with the game today. He plays normally, I buy lege weapons and full exotic BIS gear on day 1 from TP with gold from gems I have no power advantage over him? Hmmmm.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

All games (or most) have power ceiling. It only depends how high it is.

Its impossible to buy advantage? So if me and my friend start with the game today. He plays normally, I buy lege weapons and full exotic BIS gear on day 1 from TP with gold from gems I have no power advantage over him? Hmmmm.

which is relative to you, not relative to the ceiling.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

This is where I am not sure. Is the game generating extra gems for the gem to gold trade or not. 

If its not and all the gem to gold trades are between players then each and every single gem is paid in cash and thus makes 0 difference to Anet through how many hands it goes further on. Actually its even better its kept somewhere in the system and not spent on trading post because there are piles of gems that were bought from Anet and not utilised which means more cash for Anet compared if we would have better utilisation. 

It doesn't matter if the game is generating some extra gems for that trade economy or not (though if you think about it ... that market has to be controlled to some degree anyways because no one would spend RL money on gems if the gold to gem conversion was too low). I'm speculating ... there are price ceilings in the conversion market and Anet will remove gems if necessary to maintain a certain revenue from RL money gem purchases. 

The option of gold conversion most certainly does not make Anet money and because it's an option to obtain gems, also likely has a negative impact on revenues. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

which is relative to you, not relative to the ceiling.

Relative to both, always.

[Zok.4956]

12 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Its a trade between 2 players correct? I honestly am not sure. 

Two Players can trade items and gold, but not gems.

However, RMT (real money trading) is strictly forbidden and can/will lead to a permanent account ban/deletion.

Also, just getting gold from an account that is involved in RMT (or other violations of the TOS) can also lead to a permanent ban/deletion of your account.

So, trading with strangers has not only a big risk of getting scammed it also can lead to an account ban and is therefore not recommened.

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It doesn't matter if the game is generating some extra gems for that trade economy or not (though if you think about it ... that market has to be controlled to some degree anyways because it impacts Anet's revenues).

The option of gold conversion most certainly does not make Anet money and because it's an option to obtain gems, also likely has a negative impact on revenues. 

I get your point and I am not sure I am correct on this one.

I would still say the gem to gold exchange opens additional market which brings more transactions. I am actually not sure though. I'm mostly basing this on my habits. I sometimes buy gems and its really a non issue for money wise. I just have so much gold that I just buy it with gold because I dont know what to do with it. But on the other hand someone bought gems to buy gold which wouldnt be possible without the market.

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I get your point and I am not sure I am correct on this one.

I would still say the gem to gold exchange opens additional market which brings more transactions. I am actually not sure though. I'm mostly basing this on my habits. I sometimes buy gems and its really a non issue for money wise. I just have so much gold that I just buy it with gold because I dont know what to do with it. But on the other hand someone bought gems to buy gold which wouldnt be possible without the market.

So you think that if people have the ability to obtain gems with gold, they are more likely to do transactions , i.e., purchase them with RL money? Um ...maybe. Seems ... unlikely to me. If so, it's probably a very small percentage and even when true, there is still a missed opportunity for Anet to make money because those people opted to get gems with gold conversion instead of buying them with RL money. 

I mean, the point here is that people are trying to sell the idea that 'engagement' and gold conversion has some comparable value to Anet  getting revenue. It doesn't. Sure, these are good and have positive reflection of the game, but you can't take 'engagement' to the bank. Gold conversion of gems in NO WAY makes Anet revenue. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Zok.4956]

4 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Its impossible to buy advantage? So if me and my friend start with the game today. He plays normally, I buy lege weapons and full exotic BIS gear on day 1 from TP with gold from gems I have no power advantage over him? Hmmmm.

What are you playing? PvE? No you dont have advantage over him. sPvP? Gear is normalized to create equal sitation. WvW? If you are on the same server, of course not.

Full exotic BIS gear costs only a few gold. Every player could have the required gold for exotic gear just from playing the game after a few days.

The stat difference between exotics and ascended gear is only a few percent.  The stat difference between ascended and legendary is zero. The DPS differenced between a bad and a good players is around 1000% (can be 10 times, or more).

Gear is not unimportant in GW2 but skill matters most, not gear.

[Cuks.8241]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So you think that if people have the ability to obtain gems with gold, they are more likely to do transactions , i.e., purchase them with RL money? Um ...maybe. Seems ... unlikely to me. 

I mean, the point here is that people are trying to sell the idea that 'engagement' and gold conversion has some comparable value to Anet  getting revenue. It doesn't. Sure, these are good and have positive reflection of the game, but you can't take 'engagement' to the bank. Gold conversion of gems in NO WAY makes Anet revenue. 

 

"Gold conversion of gems in NO WAY makes Anet revenue." The act itself not. But it opens additional market in the game. The gold market which brings additional different type of customer. Customers that want gold. That was my point. 

But you actually make a great point in first paragraph. That might actually be the best argument how this makes money for Anet. Hooking people with a little bit of "free" gems that they buy with gold. That is a common tactic, just get them to spend a few gems and the chance they will want more increases. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

What are you playing? PvE? No you dont have advantage over him. sPvP? Gear is normalized to create equal sitation. WvW? If you are on the same server, of course not.

Full exotic BIS gear costs only a few gold. Every player could have the required gold for exotic gear just from playing the game after a few days.

The stat difference between exotics and ascended gear is only a few percent.  The stat difference between ascended and legendary is zero. The DPS differenced between a bad and a good players is around 1000% (can be 10 times, or more).

Gear is not unimportant in GW2 but skill matters most, not gear.

He doesn't understand the term Pay to Win as it is understood for this genre.  To fit his argument hew has picked a temporary moment in time where 2 played both under the 10 year old gear ceiling are 'racing' in some way or another, which has nothing to do with the core gameplay of GW2.