can we pls change softreset and starting mmr

[Avatar.3568]

can we maybe change the way how softreset works, ranked pvp has not the biggest population and the skillgap is actually more widening in the playerbase.

However every season we push all players closer togheter while drasticly increasing lower mmr players and decreasing higher mmr players in theoreticly rank.
this creates a weird szenario of players beeing placed all over the place and making completly clownfiesta games, this happens every season and beeing like that for 2-3 weeks after season start.
new players start with 1200 rating right in between, getting matched with boyce and drazeh and wonder how this ever can happen and leave ranked.
veterans testing like every bigger balance patch the game, see "oh man ranked is a totaly mess" because they get matched with new players, silvers, and legends and immedietly leave the game again.

this brings us to the next point that a 1200 baseline rating is just to high and "competitiv"  for the avarage Guild Wars 2 Player, let new accounts start in bronze, this also kinda "solves" an afker problem, for all those that want to nightduoq can just create a new account and don't have to throw 30 matches in a row to ruin a lot of peoples fun.

Let players start at 800-900 rating and change softreset in a way that this big skillgaps do not that often get mixed togheter.

[Avatar.3568]

Bonus pls: let some fixed rating points just not ever get matched togheter and don't allow duoq with to high rating gaps (200-300?)

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Bonus pls: let some fixed rating points just not ever get matched togheter and don't allow duoq with to high rating gaps (200-300?)

Top of the ladder would not get games though. Like I'm on 1610, if we cut it off 200 rating below me, there is like 3-400 accounts total who are eligible to go against me. What if there isn't 9 of them wanting to play right now? Do I just sit in the lobby for half an hour? How do you even get 120 games a season like this?

[magickthief.6492]

6 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Top of the ladder would not get games though. Like I'm on 1610, if we cut it off 200 rating below me, there is like 3-400 accounts total who are eligible to go against me. What if there isn't 9 of them wanting to play right now? Do I just sit in the lobby for half an hour? How do you even get 120 games a season like this?

Because of the system in place, even your rating is artificial. All of the 1800 plus players are also artificial. The system is being gamed to create those ratings. If there are less players, then excluding ultra instinct ultra minority skill players would ultimately not be a bad thing for the health of the game mode. I understand  it might affect you, but you are the toe to be cut to save the foot.

[Balsa.3951]

8 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

can we maybe change the way how softreset works, ranked pvp has not the biggest population and the skillgap is actually more widening in the playerbase.

However every season we push all players closer togheter while drasticly increasing lower mmr players and decreasing higher mmr players in theoreticly rank.
this creates a weird szenario of players beeing placed all over the place and making completly clownfiesta games, this happens every season and beeing like that for 2-3 weeks after season start.
new players start with 1200 rating right in between, getting matched with boyce and drazeh and wonder how this ever can happen and leave ranked.
veterans testing like every bigger balance patch the game, see "oh man ranked is a totaly mess" because they get matched with new players, silvers, and legends and immedietly leave the game again.

this brings us to the next point that a 1200 baseline rating is just to high and "competitiv"  for the avarage Guild Wars 2 Player, let new accounts start in bronze, this also kinda "solves" an afker problem, for all those that want to nightduoq can just create a new account and don't have to throw 30 matches in a row to ruin a lot of peoples fun.

Let players start at 800-900 rating and change softreset in a way that this big skillgaps do not that often get mixed togheter.

i think thats an issue yes i was always high ranked.till i multi classes for.archivements which put my mmr into bronze. 

i needed very very long to become a platnium player again.

with forced win rates about 50 50 its hard to climb

[Bazsi.2734]

5 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Because of the system in place, even your rating is artificial. All of the 1800 plus players are also artificial. The system is being gamed to create those ratings. If there are less players, then excluding ultra instinct ultra minority skill players would ultimately not be a bad thing for the health of the game mode. I understand  it might affect you, but you are the toe to be cut to save the foot.

Once the best players can't play games due to rating gap, the less skilled bunch below them get a higher winrate, because they aren't farmed by the best players anymore. Soon they will reach the treshold where they get no games anymore. This repeats several times over until anyone more skilled than average is barred from playing PvP. Sounds like you did not chop a toe off to save a leg, you just chopped your leg into tiny pieces.
The job of a competetive system is to put the talent on top, not removing them from the player pool. Consider ceasing.

[SlayerXX.7138]

15 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Let players start at 800-900 rating and change softreset in a way that this big skillgaps do not that often get mixed togheter.

Why try to reinvent the wheel? Just do what LoL does. Some of your rating does carry over on reset day. So high silver and low gold start at 1200. Bronze below that median. Platinum above that median.

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Once the best players can't play games due to rating gap, the less skilled bunch below them get a higher winrate, because they aren't farmed by the best players anymore. Soon they will reach the treshold where they get no games anymore. This repeats several times over until anyone more skilled than average is barred from playing PvP. Sounds like you did not chop a toe off to save a leg, you just chopped your leg into tiny pieces.

This is not how an MMR system works. Not even how math works. It lonely being on top. You won't be lonely being in the top 10%.

6 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

with forced win rates about 50 50 its hard to climb

This is not how an MMR system works. They only hard part to climb is if your current MRR approaches your max MMR. MMR is an generally accurate, but imperfect approximation of skill. This means while a couple of factors can make singular game a bad match, the climb as a whole should be easy, till you approach your skill cap.

[Bazsi.2734]

52 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

This is not how an MMR system works. Not even how math works. It lonely being on top. You won't be lonely being in the top 10%.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm 

If you take this system and set the padding limit to 200 + turn off the outlier failsafes that ensure everyone is getting matches, it's entirely possible to create situations where you get no games because you've climbed too high(or shrunk too low). Don't know what else to tell you, the code is right there. You either misunderstood the conversation... or you're just typing stuff. Either way love the confidence!

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[phokus.8934]

3 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

This is not how an MMR system works. They only hard part to climb is if your current MRR approaches your max MMR. MMR is an generally accurate, but imperfect approximation of skill. This means while a couple of factors can make singular game a bad match, the climb as a whole should be easy, till you approach your skill cap.

People are always looking for excuses as to why their rating isn't higher than they expect.  There is no forced 50-50 win rate, even the pseudo-code debunks this notion.  GW2 MMR should more accurately reflect the ability to carry a game because being reliant on 4 strangers makes you go HAM.  Or get lucky.

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

it's entirely possible to create situations where you get no games because you've climbed too high(or shrunk too low).

Maybe the highest rated gamers (top 1%) get no games or they just get long ques. Quite possible and true. You further argued that this effect would cascade till everyone who is above average is affected, which is untrue. The power level(skill) to number of people who posses such a Power level follows a normal distribution, as such reducing the padding won't cascade. It may affect you the top 2-3%. The other reason is while Top player may ruin single matches they generally don't affect win rates. The opposite is also true, you can absolutely lose a game thanks to team mates, but you don't lose 10 games thanks to team mates. MMR Matchmaking does iron out these spikes. At the top with people actively gaming the Matchmaker with Duo Q that effect gets dampen a lot.

If the configuration of the link you posted are accurate Padding starts after 5 mins. So every game you get under 5 mins has zero padding anyway.

[Bazsi.2734]

4 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Maybe the highest rated gamers (top 1%) get no games or they just get long ques. Quite possible and true. You further argued that this effect would cascade till everyone who is above average is affected, which is untrue. The power level(skill) to number of people who posses such a Power level follows a normal distribution, as such reducing the padding won't cascade.

If I can't play because I climbed too high, I'm quitting the game faster than millennials are losing hope of a future for their children. I'd assume most players hitting this wall once or twice would do the same. It's one thing to not care about your PvP, but why would the devs actually put in work to chase their best players away? The ones who shape the meta, drive balance discussions, post and curate builds, build/maintain guides... The cascade is one thing. You degenerate the entire gamemode by eliminating your best players from it.

 

5 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The other reason is while Top player may ruin single matches they generally don't affect win rates. The opposite is also true, you can absolutely lose a game thanks to team mates, but you don't lose 10 games thanks to team mates. MMR Matchmaking does iron out these spikes. At the top with people actively gaming the Matchmaker with Duo Q that effect gets dampen a lot.

Here is the thing about that: just remove duoQ then. You can't correct one <REDACTED> decision with another <CENSORED> one.

 

5 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

If the configuration of the link you posted are accurate Padding starts after 5 mins. So every game you get under 5 mins has zero padding anyway.

I'll let you in on a secret: not every match you get into is built around you. Whenever you get an instant Qpop you likely have joined a rooster that is way over 5 minutes old. You have no idea how many padding your matches have unless you check the rating of literally everyone in your team.

[magickthief.6492]

10 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Once the best players can't play games due to rating gap, the less skilled bunch below them get a higher winrate, because they aren't farmed by the best players anymore. Soon they will reach the treshold where they get no games anymore. This repeats several times over until anyone more skilled than average is barred from playing PvP. Sounds like you did not chop a toe off to save a leg, you just chopped your leg into tiny pieces.
The job of a competetive system is to put the talent on top, not removing them from the player pool. Consider ceasing.

The lack of games comes from the lack of play by way of dodging and acting to just play without risk. Isolating the top 1% IS NOT going to suddenly raise the skill of the other 99%. Top 10% should play against each other, not against the other 90%. You should consider ceasing to prive your point if it's true.

[SlayerXX.7138]

51 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

The ones who shape the meta, drive balance discussions, post and curate builds, build/maintain guides...

Smurf, have to much influence on balancing, influence the game to their own advantage. Guild Wars strongest feature is the combat. At its core Guild Wars 2 has everything that makes a great PvP game, but it somehow is on life support. The MMR margins Anet hands out to keep the top 1% happy are absurd. Most top player are quit happy being Kings of the ashes. For kitten's sake they Gaslight the forum into thinking Gold 3 (top 20%) are bad players.

 

[Bazsi.2734]

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Smurf, have to much influence on balancing, influence the game to their own advantage. Guild Wars strongest feature is the combat. At its core Guild Wars 2 has everything that makes a great PvP game, but it somehow is on life support. The MMR margins Anet hands out to keep the top 1% happy are absurd. Most top player are quit happy being Kings of the ashes. For kitten's sake they Gaslight the forum into thinking Gold 3 (top 20%) are bad players.

 

So does this still tie back to the topic of the thread, or we just doing the "top players are bad reee" rite? I mean you're free to do so, but we were talking about a subject and you adress this reply to me, so now I'm confused. 
Because the guy who's first comment started with:

12 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

This is not how an MMR system works. Not even how math works.

Is now commenting this: 

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

 The MMR margins Anet hands out to keep the top 1% happy are absurd. 

It just... yeah whatever. Leave padding as it is. Anyone who disagrees, put up some actual arguments. And sorry to say but "I hate top players make them suffer" is not a valid argument, not even when you rephrase it to make it 2 sentences long.