mirage dead on patch - second dodge back

[semak.7481]

23 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Well, they are doing what should have been done to Mirage ages ago, and what was almost universally called out as a terrible game mechanic shortly after PoF launched and Mirage launched into SSS+ untouchable God tier. And that is finally removing dodge on CC.

Strange that it is now finally being reworked. Better late than never I suppose.

Made up bs. Holo farming mirage in a straight up 1x1 was common as hell(hello zan and the power of mines + forge, w/o a weapon). Mirage couldnt take a node from a weaver, scourge fb was the most memorable aids about PoF, spellbreakers, boonbeasts. Every spec except rene(for a long time we saw double heralds anyway, not like they were unhappy) was broken as fk at release. Dont remember mirage being stacked  yet, revenant(catalyst) is favored by the best players, so the best players tend to stack it and win!

[JazzXman.7018]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:18 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Everything is fair and understandable, and I very much agree with the way you feel about your doc beign ignored. BUT.

Put yourself in CmC shoes.
- Community asks WEIRD THING (eg: "change the way mirage dodge works")
- Management says FORGET IT (eg: "it needs months of work, you're facing a significant regression risk, you're working on undocumented and very old parts of the code, it might even turn out to not be doable at all, the company focus currently is somewhere else entirely")

What do you do? You cut the story short: the tldr you give the community is "given the current situation, it's impossible", you don't throw yourself in very convoluted discussions which will still lead nowhere: management said you can't do that and there's no room for change.

The whole situation changed ever since then (and on that, I believe, CmC had no small merit). Currently management shifted focus from "releasing a gazillion new features" to refining old content, and he was allowed to get the months of work necessary to perform this task. If I was a betting boy, I'd say they just tweaked the listener on the "dodge" key and called it a day -if (this.isStunned) return; /* me gud dev huehuehujehue */-, akin to what I think happened with Vindicator, so... nothing EXTREMELY hard to do, I guess? But I do believe he did the right thing for the situation he was in. I'm the first to throw some random bs at the client when I need to cut a discussion short; I have knowledge about the code and the management focus, the details don't need to be 100% true so long as the picture I'm giving you is correct.

first of all i am sure you know more than me about programming, codes and management  so i will take everything you say as most likely true. but the points are

1. no one forced cmc to make a promise. he did it by himself and then didnt deliver. and that after not only me but the whole mesmer community + x non mains put months of effort into a doc (i would not care about me that much, but activating the whole community, wasting their time its just a horrible feeling for me. devs dont care about wasting other ppls time while those ppl try to help to do the work in their freetime devs are payed for and not doing well or not doing at all) 
2. no one complained that the mirage dodge could not be split like that. we had tons of different ideas to balance mirage quite well around the current mc version. even more, some ideas also solved additional balance problems from mirage which are still unsolved in the upcoming patch. and some of the concepts were also easy to compensate by simple number splits in pve. so no need to worry that pve player run wild over those mechanical changes. but instead we were cut to an objectively insanely bad low effort one dodge change that didnt even solve the problems of mirage (not even the mc problem). i am not a drama queen but i cant find any excuse or justification for a lot of things happening since years with the game as a whole and with mesmer in general in terms of balance and management of competitive gamemodes and im surprised you can find them. also i really hope they have a server roll back point saved (preferable back to 2018 where, so it seems, the last dev with balance talent and knowledge and a professional unbiased mindset left the game) for the moment the game is so ruined that its not even gw2 anymore, esp when the same devs who developed eod touch the core mechanics. that will not end well i would bet.
3. yes i am mad, very mad about a lot of things, cant deny. this game and the mesmer class was pure art (ofc also not perfect on release but still) and seeing both getting destroyed piece by piece over the years (mostly since 2018) just hurts hard. in case the game would have died to just being old i would have been the last one on the sinking ship but this is not the same ship anymore (and it will get worse). i still care for the game but im happy i finally found another game challenging in terms of skill ceiling/cap with a bigger playerbase and finally some real competition and a balance that isnt a pure joke.  gw2 as one and only game doesnt cut it at all anymore and i can see the day where i dont look back. and that makes me sad.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:50 PM, Jojo.6590 said:

WB..sorta.

thanks 🤗 but ye not rly.

On 6/20/2023 at 1:05 PM, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Sorry I can't, clown shoes just don't fit me.

hehe ye 

[Dreams.3128]

1 hour ago, semak.7481 said:

Made up bs. Holo farming mirage in a straight up 1x1 was common as hell(hello zan and the power of mines + forge, w/o a weapon). Mirage couldnt take a node from a weaver, scourge fb was the most memorable aids about PoF, spellbreakers, boonbeasts. Every spec except rene(for a long time we saw double heralds anyway, not like they were unhappy) was broken as fk at release. Dont remember mirage being stacked  yet, revenant(catalyst) is favored by the best players, so the best players tend to stack it and win!

Mirage had a brief moment where it was stacked at least two mirages per game in ranked (no idea about MaT, don't pay attention to those). Confusion and torment was a lot more deadly. The vigor built into their traits (it procc'd more frequently) allowed them to make a lot more mistakes, and the visual noise upon the screen was so disgusting that it made it a chore to even BEGIN to point out the actual mirage unless you were breaking your tab target key through the wave of animations.

It's been a lonnnnnng time since that brief moment of them being ridiculously powerful. And I'll be honest by saying I cannot recall exactly WHEN in PoF they were disgusting. I want to say it was around the time a little after Boonbeast was getting culled and the whole scourge/fb aids was starting to finally settle down, but do not quote me on that.

Outside of that couple of months, mirage did not stand out terribly once their wave of nerfs came in. But, yes, most things within PoF had their really really strong times.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[apharma.3741]

45 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Mirage had a brief moment where it was stacked at least two mirages per game in ranked (no idea about MaT, don't pay attention to those). Confusion and torment was a lot more deadly. The vigor built into their traits (it procc'd more frequently) allowed them to make a lot more mistakes, and the visual noise upon the screen was so disgusting that it made it a chore to even BEGIN to point out the actual mirage unless you were breaking your tab target key through the wave of animations.

It's been a lonnnnnng time since that brief moment of them being ridiculously powerful. And I'll be honest by saying I cannot recall exactly WHEN in PoF they were disgusting. I want to say it was around the time a little after Boonbeast was getting culled and the whole scourge/fb aids was starting to finally settle down, but do not quote me on that.

Outside of that couple of months, mirage did not stand out terribly once their wave of nerfs came in. But, yes, most things within PoF had their really really strong times.

Was just before August 2019 as that is when chaotic interruption was disabled.
Since then:
Vigor on mirage was halved through nomads endurance
Critical Infusion had 40% of it's duration removed while similar traits on other classes remain unchanged.
Chaotic Interruption was basically deleted from the game.
They made torment largely worse than bleed....oh and it's one of the mirages main damage condition.
They increased the cool down of Illusionary Ambush by 75%
Nerfed Chaos Vortex quite a bit but who knows with how much they've changed it
Probably more that I can't remember to get to current place where mirage is considered not great in the meta, suffers from having 1 dodge. A lot of high level EU players are saying you could give it the 2nd dodge back and it would just be fine in the meta.

Instead Mirage cloak is being nerfed so no more dodge while stunned or immobilised (which I'm fine with but can the superspeed go back to release level?). On top of that we're seeing a ton of chaos trait line and mirage nerfs just to be sure mirage knows it's place.

• Illusionary Membrane: Reduced incoming damage reduction from 10% to 5% in PvP only.
• Chaotic Persistence: Reduced concentration and expertise from 250 to 150 in PvP only.
• Illusionary Defense: Reduced damage reduction per stack from 2% to 1.5% in PvP only.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced vigor duration from 8 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.
• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control.
• Mirage Cloak: This trait no longer reduces the mirage's endurance in PvP and WvW.
• Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Imaginary Axes: Reduced clone torment duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Split Surge: Reduced might stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
• Elusive Mind: This trait now removes conditions when gaining Mirage Cloak instead of when dodging. Reduced the number of conditions removed from 2 to 1 in PvP and WvW.

WHY?! It's already bad, the mirage cloak nerfs were enough but these will also hurt all mesmer builds and promote desert distortion use with signet of illusions even more than it currently does.

Edited June 23, 2023 by apharma.3741

[semak.7481]

9 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

snip

Welp, I was about to type a response but its here, i'll just add, that once again, they pretend AS IF mirage was the strongest of them all, bs

Quote

WHY?! It's already bad, the mirage cloak nerfs were enough but these will also hurt all mesmer builds and promote desert distortion use with signet of illusions even more than it currently does.

For an excuse to nerf SoI and desert distortion together 🙂

Edited June 23, 2023 by semak.7481

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

yaddayaddayadda

A lot of yaddayadda which I can pretty much agree with. The way he handled the words he said about mirage cloak can be justified; everything else, not so much.

[JazzXman.7018]

11 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

A lot of yaddayadda which I can pretty much agree with. The way he handled the words he said about mirage cloak can be justified; everything else, not so much.

yaddayadda o/ enjoy the game as long as you can!

Edit: also the words were barely correct. acting as is mc is the most unhealthy thing in the game and can't stay in any case is not only narrowed but simply wrong.

1. there are less healthier things in the game than mc on a squishy class like mes with barely any resustain (Ele has some, bladeworn, to just name 2).

2. and as explained a lot already: mirage ambush design (at least on sword and gs) already included since pov release the needed trade offs to balance the strong defensive abilities from current mc out if balanced correctly in mechanics and power lvl. 

As said I don't mind them splitting mc, but acting as if mirage with current mc is the most evil just shows the lack of understanding of mirage mechanics and explains pretty well why they still nerf/ buff the wrong things in the wrong way for mirage (for ex nerfing mightstacks instead the direct dmg part on gs ambush buffing mirrors indirectly with em etc) but also mesmer as a whole. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by JazzXman.7018

[Leonidrex.5649]

I recreated my old old old staff mirage build.
3x clone IH from staff does about 4k dmg.... used to be 16k
all the nerfs added to dealing 75% less dmg with that particular attack, now there is another ¬30% nerf coming up so no, mirage wont be strong.

[JazzXman.7018]

it might make more sense to post it here since its pvp pov (also the suggestions can be compensated easy by simple number splits in pve, so that pve playstyle of mirage and its benchmark will not change.  made another mirage/ mesmer related post bit later on same side in the profession subforum follow up thread.

i also dont like at all that power chrono gets even more dumbed down now with the increased amount of quickness (game rly needs quickness reduction all over the place and not more, esp not on a burst class like mesmer) and the deleted counterplay to phantasms with distortion. 

just my 2 cents.