please balanc team stop balance the game around alac and quickness

[BadSanta.6527]

i know there boons are amazing but it feels like all class do the same with diff thetm to them 

kind on miss some uniqe buffs and gameplay 

[Randulf.7614]

I rarely care about balance patches, but I do agree with this. It seems stifling that one or two buffs are so powerful, they’re not only required in builds, but the game is seemingly balanced around them.

[Aelin.9317]

One thing I found both good and bad in this game was the boons. I like that there are so many things you can do. But then having 100% boon uptime on things like quickness and alac feels both good and bad. Hitting things faster and more often is nice but it's no longer special when it's always up. To the point people get annoyed if the uptime is not good enough. When something is just the expected default it's not great. 

Playing ff you have buff windows and burst timings, your buffs are not always up. That's what I am more used too and would say I prefer. But I still really like all the adaptability the boons you can provide give. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

they're not going to, because those boons are part of the soft trinity in this game (damage, boon support, heal). if we give up those boons then we have to bring tanks back, and this game isn't meant for it.

 

like it or not, alacrity and quickness are consistent with the theme of this game, and either removing them or making them only accessible to certain classes will restrict the game to two roles or even one, as its not guaranteed healers will even be taken without a boon (like it was originally).

 

i very much do not want to go back to full berserker dps-only comps. there are those of us in the game who like to play other roles and without viable tanking, this is all we have.

 

its probably all we're ever going to get this late in the game's life.

 

that said, one thing i would like to see is the boon support role removed from healers. i thought for the longest time that healers should keep getting alacrity and quickness so they can compete with other healers, but now i'm realising this is the wrong approach. instead, healers should be in charge of healing and utility (reflects, etc.) while the boon support should be in charge of boons.

 

healscourge is a good example of this. i want it to have alacrity so i can play it in end-game pve without being kicked, but if other healers were more similar to healscourge and vindicator, i wouldn't need to have alacrity and i could just heal instead, as there would be no competition.

 

unfortunately, making alacrity and quickness mutually exclusive in recent years means a boon support can never bring both, and it means the healer will always have to bring one of the boons.

Edited June 10, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Obtena.7952]

It's too late. Once Anet decided there was 'roles', those were going to become the balancing points, whether they intended for that to happen or not. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

18 minutes ago, Aelin.9317 said:

One thing I found both good and bad in this game was the boons. I like that there are so many things you can do. But then having 100% boon uptime on things like quickness and alac feels both good and bad. Hitting things faster and more often is nice but it's no longer special when it's always up. To the point people get annoyed if the uptime is not good enough. When something is just the expected default it's not great. 

Playing ff you have buff windows and burst timings, your buffs are not always up. That's what I am more used too and would say I prefer. But I still really like all the adaptability the boons you can provide give. 

unfortunately having limited burst windows would require them to balance pve as if it were pvp, which is something many other games do as it allows them to add actually intelligent enemies to the game that play in a manner more similar to actual players. however, arenanet decided not to do this many years ago when players reacted negatively to increased difficulty from enemies, which is why we have the "monsters are monsters and only good as punching bags" system in place today.

 

the 100% boon uptime fits perfectly with this system, as they only exist to be destroyed, not to present a challenge. thus, players will always follow the most efficient path to destroying them, and anything that disrupts that efficiency is frowned upon, even if it results in a higher skill level.

Edited June 10, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[NoMoreBansPls.7401]

Its almost as if anet is trying to balance a Massively Multiplayer Online game around interactions that allow every profession to participate in some form of team work.

[RenneBright.2473]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:08 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

that said, one thing i would like to see is the boon support role removed from healers. i thought for the longest time that healers should keep getting alacrity and quickness so they can compete with other healers, but now i'm realising this is the wrong approach. instead, healers should be in charge of healing and utility (reflects, etc.) while the boon support should be in charge of boons.

I don't really agree with that. Utility knowledge/usability shouldn't be exclusive to the healers. I'd honestly rather play with a condis Virtuoso who knows about using core Mesmer utilities (reflects, boons strip which isn't exclusive to the power counterpart) when applicable, rather than with one who only knows how to spam 4 signets build without adapting its utility skills for instance. There is a reason why condis Mirage/Virtuoso bring feedback to Matthias Gabrel. 
Necro has a core utility called Corrosive poison cloud, which blocks projectiles for 8s (CA CM lasers, Cairn's projectiles, Slubling's projectiles etc.) but nobody bothers using them even though it can bring more to your squad/party. Likewise, Necro isn't the only boons stripper class/elite spec here.
Having decent CCs in your build when you need to CC should also be a collective responsibility, not only the healer's. You won't be able to go through the CC phase in Qadim's pets, Samarog or Matt for instance if your only CCs come exclusively from your healers.

On 6/10/2023 at 8:08 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

healscourge is a good example of this. i want it to have alacrity so i can play it in end-game pve without being kicked, but if other healers were more similar to healscourge and vindicator, i wouldn't need to have alacrity and i could just heal instead, as there would be no competition.

I wouldn't mind Heal Scourge if it becomes like Ham over the next balance patches. But low CD AoE tp res shouldn't exist alongside big barriers & boons. Bad players positioning should be punished if anything, not further excused.
 

[Barraind.7324]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:08 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

its not guaranteed healers will even be taken without a boon

You'll still probably take a druid to almost everything (they can cover solo healing on most fights just fine), and your boon dps now emphasizes might generation even more, because might post quick/alac is now the only thing that matters and its the same ol same ol doing it. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Barraind.7324 said:

You'll still probably take a druid to almost everything (they can cover solo healing on most fights just fine), and your boon dps now emphasizes might generation even more, because might post quick/alac is now the only thing that matters and its the same ol same ol doing it. 

i don't see how taking just one out of 36 subclasses for healing is a solution? i might be misunderstanding your reply, but this would just be recreating heart of thorns raid era, which was abandoned by the game for a good reason (being in class jail from either requirement or exclusion).

Edited June 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[HonesltlyX.7164]

This maybe a bit of a stretch because I can only speculate to Anets larger plan. I think what they are trying to do is give access to these boons too all specs ahead of a LFG finder integration. Like how in WoW you can queue in dungeon finder for tank, healer, dps.

Well maybe (and I'm just speculating) we are actually looking at Anet breaking ground for an entirely new LFG finder system that is similar which allows players to queue for ALAC, HEAL, QUICK, DPS and Anet may finally be able to balance content effectively around these boons.

Again just speculation and it's a stretch. I'm just saying that this balance patch may open up a lot of doors for interesting stuff in the future. Definitely needs some ironing out though.

[Batalix.2873]

4 hours ago, HonesltlyX.7164 said:

This maybe a bit of a stretch because I can only speculate to Anets larger plan. I think what they are trying to do is give access to these boons too all specs ahead of a LFG finder integration. Like how in WoW you can queue in dungeon finder for tank, healer, dps.

Well maybe (and I'm just speculating) we are actually looking at Anet breaking ground for an entirely new LFG finder system that is similar which allows players to queue for ALAC, HEAL, QUICK, DPS and Anet may finally be able to balance content effectively around these boons.

Again just speculation and it's a stretch. I'm just saying that this balance patch may open up a lot of doors for interesting stuff in the future. Definitely needs some ironing out though.

Lol I love how players are fine with every espec being whittled down to the same DPS+ role under the thin guise of "play whatever and however you want".

But then are totally fine with effectively the implementation of a holy trinity system that they themselves have been imposing for years.

A game that doesn't actively design around and bolster non-DPS roles like tanking, healing, mezzing will inevitably be overrun by the playerbase's overwhelming infatuation with hitting things faster and harder. GW2 has been slipping on this for years.

[HonesltlyX.7164]

27 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Lol I love how players are fine with every espec being whittled down to the same DPS+ role under the thin guise of "play whatever and however you want".

But then are totally fine with effectively the implementation of a holy trinity system that they themselves have been imposing for years.

A game that doesn't actively design around and bolster non-DPS roles like tanking, healing, mezzing will inevitably be overrun by the playerbase's overwhelming infatuation with hitting things faster and harder. GW2 has been slipping on this for years.

I am having trouble understand what I am reading. Players has been pugging group content around alac/quick/heal/dps for years now. Ofcourse players would impose it on the community. It's fun and effective.

Do you mean that they are AGAINST having a "Holy Trinity-like" system using the existing boons in the game? This is a first that I am hearing this. Most people I run end game content with are happy fulling a role in a group surrounding those boons.

"A game that doesn't actively design around and bolster non-DPS roles like tanking, healing, mezzing will inevitably be overrun by the playerbase's overwhelming infatuation with hitting things faster and harder. GW2 has been slipping on this for years."

I'm trying to understand what you are saying here? Do you want a holy trinity-like system? Or do you wanna just "hit-hard, go burrrr"? It seems like you wouldn't be happy either way.

[Batalix.2873]

27 minutes ago, HonesltlyX.7164 said:

I am having trouble understand what I am reading. Players has been pugging group content around alac/quick/heal/dps for years now. Ofcourse players would impose it on the community. It's fun and effective.

Do you mean that they are AGAINST having a "Holy Trinity-like" system using the existing boons in the game? This is a first that I am hearing this. Most people I run end game content with are happy fulling a role in a group surrounding those boons.

"A game that doesn't actively design around and bolster non-DPS roles like tanking, healing, mezzing will inevitably be overrun by the playerbase's overwhelming infatuation with hitting things faster and harder. GW2 has been slipping on this for years."

I'm trying to understand what you are saying here? Do you want a holy trinity-like system? Or do you wanna just "hit-hard, go burrrr"? It seems like you wouldn't be happy either way.

I am fine with a trinity-like system, and I think at this point alac/quickness are a few of the only things preventing GW2 from being fully reduced to DPS-variants like FFXIV.

I am mostly observing a weird blind spot in the playerbase. Where they claim the game is still "play how you want", yet between the DPS+ homogenization zeitgeist and this soft alac/quickness trinity, there really isn't much choice.

To a DPS player it may appear that having 27 ways to hit things, with superficial switchups like condi/power or alac/quick is "variety". But for anyone who actually prefers other party roles like healing, tanking GW2 is offering less and less of that. From my perspective, there really isn't much choice when all my choices are DPS.

[HonesltlyX.7164]

49 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I am fine with a trinity-like system, and I think at this point alac/quickness are a few of the only things preventing GW2 from being fully reduced to DPS-variants like FFXIV.

I am mostly observing a weird blind spot in the playerbase. Where they claim the game is still "play how you want", yet between the DPS+ homogenization zeitgeist and this soft alac/quickness trinity, there really isn't much choice.

To a DPS player it may appear that having 27 ways to hit things, with superficial switchups like condi/power or alac/quick is "variety". But for anyone who actually prefers other party roles like healing, tanking GW2 is offering less and less of that. From my perspective, there really isn't much choice when all my choices are DPS.

I hear you. I personally like the soft trinity the community uses right now. I think you may be looking at it the wrong way. It sounds to me like you want more viable healing\tanking roles in the game. Which is a valid desire. However, I think if we take that route then we would have to remove\nerf the inherit healing skills and dodge in the game for every profession.

The only reason why tanking isn't viable is because we can rely more on proper positioning, well-timed dodges, and healing ourselves to mitigate damage. This would drastically change the way combat works in the game and the playerbase as a whole agrees that the combat system in GW2 is among the best in the genre because of how rewarding it feels to execute well-timed dodge and heal yourself.

As opposed to just outright being punished because a tank failed to properly hold aggro on attacks that will hit you no matter where you are or who/what is in between. Or if a healer failed at properly healing a group.

I hear you, GW2 is just a very different game. Lots of players love it because it is very unique in how combat works.

Edited June 20, 2023 by HonesltlyX.7164
Grammar corrections.