With fervent force removed, untamed cantrips & skills should be looked over.

[Rhailex.2513]

Healing Cantrip; 30 seconds cooldown, heal for a max of 33% of your hp if you manage to use it near 0 health. But say you don't want to risk dieing, you use it around 5k health. A dps build has maybe 20k HP. Your healing skill will heal you for a mere 5k HP.

Troll Unguent: roughly 1k HP every second for 8 seconds on a 20s cooldown. Doesn't matter how much HP you have, you can use this as soon as you get into a fight and take a few thousands of damage. It will keep your health topped up and you will only have to survive for 12 seconds once it ends. The key point here is that you can use this when you're missing a little bit of health.

We heal as one: 6,5k healing. 20s cooldown. You can use this as soon as you're missing about 5-6k health. You will have full health. Would you use the cantrip instead, you'd heal a pathetic 1.6k

A lot of other skills, both utility and weapon skills are based on Fervent Force reducing a few seconds. Unnatural Traversal is on 40 seconds, so you can't even use it to close the gap a little bit and then use GS #3, because you'll be out of a mobility skill. Not even going into how often the skill simply fails and goes on cooldown without doing anything. I mean, compare this with Revenant's Shiro's Phase Traversal that can port you around corners, up ledges, behind objects. It's godly in comparison.

TL;DR

Anet, please don't forget to update the rest of untamed skills too because they were obvious made with Fervent Force in mind.

[Kodama.6453]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:55 AM, Rhailex.2513 said:

Healing Cantrip; 30 seconds cooldown, heal for a max of 33% of your hp if you manage to use it near 0 health. But say you don't want to risk dieing, you use it around 5k health. A dps build has maybe 20k HP. Your healing skill will heal you for a mere 5k HP.

So you really just ignore the 3 seconds of damage immunity this skill grants? Wtf?

Also you are using competitive numbers for your comparison here (33% of max hp healed, but in PvE it's 50%), but Fervent Force is primarily just used in PvE. Most competitive Untamed builds don't use the trait, so how do you come up with the argument that it needs compensation in that environment?

On 6/12/2023 at 9:55 AM, Rhailex.2513 said:

A lot of other skills, both utility and weapon skills are based on Fervent Force reducing a few seconds. Unnatural Traversal is on 40 seconds, so you can't even use it to close the gap a little bit and then use GS #3, because you'll be out of a mobility skill. Not even going into how often the skill simply fails and goes on cooldown without doing anything. I mean, compare this with Revenant's Shiro's Phase Traversal that can port you around corners, up ledges, behind objects. It's godly in comparison.

Again, ignoring a key component of the skill. The cooldown is 40 seconds baseline, but gets reduced by 50% if you hit an enemy with it. So in most cases, this skill has 20 seconds cooldown.

[enkeny.6937]

On 6/20/2023 at 3:56 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Again, ignoring a key component of the skill. The cooldown is 40 seconds baseline, but gets reduced by 50% if you hit an enemy with it. So in most cases, this skill has 20 seconds cooldown.

In the example 'use it to close the gap a little bit' you use it out of range. So it will go full cooldown.

[enkeny.6937]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:55 AM, Rhailex.2513 said:

Healing Cantrip; 30 seconds cooldown, heal for a max of 33% of your hp if you manage to use it near 0 health. But say you don't want to risk dieing, you use it around 5k health. A dps build has maybe 20k HP. Your healing skill will heal you for a mere 5k HP.

As above, this skill is not for just flat heal. It will prevent damage, that can be 2-3 times of you full health. Also if I remember correctly, it will not prevent capturing. 
But personally I don't like the design of this heal, because it is not scaling with healing power.

[Levetty.1279]

If nothing else, if they are going to band aid a identity on Untamed with a Quickness Support then they should maybe have some of the cantrips and other traits be support orientated too.

As it is post patch Untamed will still have the same problem it currently does in that it is less of an elite spec and more just one trait.

[Ipomoea Jalapa.6897]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:56 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Again, ignoring a key component of the skill. The cooldown is 40 seconds baseline, but gets reduced by 50% if you hit an enemy with it. So in most cases, this skill has 20 seconds cooldown.

That's what the skill description says, but it fails to lower the cooldown more than half of the time that you land a hit. Also Mutate Conditions is often disabled upon Knockdown, but it's supposed to be a Stun Break. Relentless Whirl is way too easy to accidentally interrupt with another skill and put on full cooldown.

Fervent Force makes all of these things livable. Plus it's really fun, a piano-playing style but with meaningful "chords" that you can play if you set up the keybinds for it.

[Ferus.3165]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:55 AM, Rhailex.2513 said:

Unnatural Traversal is on 40 seconds, so you can't even use it to close the gap a little bit and then use GS #3, because you'll be out of a mobility skill. Not even going into how often the skill simply fails and goes on cooldown without doing anything. I mean, compare this with Revenant's Shiro's Phase Traversal that can port you around corners, up ledges, behind objects. It's godly in comparison.

You have the same problems with many other teleports. For some reason the shiro port seems to be coded differently from all the other teleports in the game. This is easy to notice when you play revenant for example in wvw around stonemist castle. There are many spots where most teleports just won't work like when you are standing on the ledges of the inner circle of smc. As a guardian for example you can't use JI or sword 2 there (when standing on the wooden part) even when you are directly next to the target but as a revenant you can even port from the outer smc ring into the inner part of smc as long as one of the gates leading to the lord room is open. There are many other instances like that where as a normal teleport user you'd think it's not possible to port there but shiro works just fine.

[Beddo.1907]

On 6/23/2023 at 4:17 AM, Levetty.1279 said:

If nothing else, if they are going to band aid a identity on Untamed with a Quickness Support then they should maybe have some of the cantrips and other traits be support orientated too.

As it is post patch Untamed will still have the same problem it currently does in that it is less of an elite spec and more just one trait.

Untamed will mostly likely be a qDPS rather than qSUP, so I don't see the need for adding support stuff, especially since we'd need a lot of it since Untamed has nothing right now.