Anet needs to start balancing PvP for the average player

[Bunbury.8472]

low skill level players in any PvP game will always be unable to handle any burst dmg builds.

have fun balancing for people who don't run stunbreaks or use dodge key.

you'll end up with builds like rifle auto mecha which is easy enough for noobs to play, but since it does dmg no noob can fight it. DH is also a great build for noobs to get easy kills on other noobs with, and is completely hated by the noobs who just stand on point in AoE not using skills and dying. go figure lol.

I don't think you can actually give noobs an easy to play dmg build and not have all the others noobs hate the build because another noob can kill them with it.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Bunbury.8472

[Bewt.9258]

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Literally a problem only for the top 10%. I mean I agree, but that seems so detached from the real problems of the game. Look: I normally finish the season at gold 3 if I have the time. That makes me part of the top 20%. And what people write here feels so detached from my own experience it's staggering. And there are a whole 80% who are worse then me. Really? You wholeheartedly think about face as any bearing on the accessibility for new or average player? Are you crazy? 

You're right. However the population is at such a low number right now that silvers are frequently being paired with gold+/plat players. I think it's much more than the top 10% using this tech because you have to consider that this is a very old game by now. The few players that are left are the ones using this tech to gain any advantage they can over the average player. If we want to level the playing field, which is one of the biggest reasons PvP was so attractive to me specifically in this game (normalized stats and skills, the only differential being players personal skill at piloting their character), than we have to disable this tech from pvp.

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

They should fix the anti dodge field. Damage is the secondary concern in that combo. But it is still does 15k+ aoe damage in 2 seconds you can't dodge out off. It just degenerate.

There is a hail of blue arrows coming from the sky. Once you see these arrows you just need to press the dodge key.

The "anti dodge field" wont even appear, when you dodge as you see the blue arrows coming down! The window is very generous aswell.

 

When i started getting into gw2 pvp. i just generally asked people that i died too what i should look out for when fighting them. I asked them to do all their big hitters..... and then all their CC.... Then i asked them to do their sustain moves.  Just so i know what all of them look and sound like.

That sped up the learning process immensly.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Mythras.2091]

Do you know that this game is a bit more complex than LoL?

Do you know that knowing your own build is just one part of the win? (others are rotation and other players builds, capabilities)

Do you know that a beginner, or an avarage person on the same build as a pro can only do a fracture of dps and cant survive a sinlge burst?

How would you balance around this?

Ye, the matchmaking sux with this low pop. Sometimes i encounter p3 duos even if im an avarage g3-p1 player. They gank me the first time, i learn and adapt and the second fight i can hold my ground for more and more, or run away (though with this mobility creep its so much harder).

You have problems with Trapper DH? Dragons Maw? That DH is crying to mark as target to be killed first. Ye it stomps noobs, ye its annoying, but it dies like a fly. A little cc here and there and the noobstomper gets farmed for being a lazy a**. Every build has its weakness, just learn it and farm them for good.

[SlayerXX.7138]

59 minutes ago, Mythras.2091 said:

You have problems with Trapper DH? Dragons Maw?

No. How do you guys get that idea from? If you can't read, don't comment. Not everyone here is lobbying for self interest. It was just an example of a build where skill to play it and skill to counter it are vastly different. Which is not healthy for a game and one of many reasons PvP is dying.

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

When i started getting into gw2 pvp. i just generally asked people that i died too what i should look out for when fighting them. I asked them to do all their big hitters..... and then all their CC.... Then i asked them to do their sustain moves.  Just so i know what all of them look and sound like.

Yeah cool. I'm sure average players are waiting by the thousands to do all that for the privilege of not getting killed by kitten, to then be stomped by some player smurfing or duo queuing.

8 hours ago, Bewt.9258 said:

However the population is at such a low number right now that silvers are frequently being paired with gold+/plat players.

Did you never consider that part of the reason for low pop is the fact that the game is not balanced at all for beginner level player. That does it make incredible hard to get a footing in PvP. Which almost nobody is willing to do.

[Hotride.2187]

20 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Platin plus player who keeps playing with the same 100 people for years now I assume? I don't think you have an objective grasp how difficult the game is.

Its a pvp game, someone will always be just better. No amount of class balancing will change this. Changing matchmaking is the only solution here.

[Zekent.3652]

Average players complains about  E V E R Y T H I N G, they'll see a clean animation without dumbs effects comming and they'll try to "dodge" it by backpeddal.

They'll try to dodge warrior's hammer 5 with backpeddal and complain about hammer being too strong, they'll just keep playing like bots their brainded ranged AoE condi spam builds for the rewards and call it a day, without learning a single thing.

 

[Greyrat.2378]

PvP in GW2 will never be balanced for new players.
If you go that route, you will end up with very shallow skill ceiling that results in boring and stale gameplay and you can already see it occasionaly (e.g. core guard support).
Reasons why PvP is dying are mostly 1) lack of content, 2) lack of moderation, 3) lack of any tutorial/new player experience for people interested in PvP that would ease the initial steep learning curve.
Outside of that, the balance patches that keep skewing overall balance towards certain professions/specializations that are driving more experienced players away if they do not enjoy that specific profession.

GW2 has very steep learning curve that requires people to invest their time into the game mode and start learning the game from different angles, rather then just practicing their perfect rotation on golem.
Any other content in GW2 does not really challenge you the way PvP does, so it is understandable that it's difficult for people to adapt to it.

[SlayerXX.7138]

4 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

PvP in GW2 will never be balanced for new players.

Time to shut it down I guess. No point in wasting valuable dev time on 600 people.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[Sereath.1428]

3 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Time to shut it down I guess. No point in wasting valuable dev time on 600 people.

 

600 is generous.

[Greyrat.2378]

3 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Time to shut it down I guess. No point in wasting valuable dev time on 600 people.

 

They are already ignoring sPvP/not spending their resources on it, and if I remember correctly, Grouch himself said that they want to spread their focus on other parts of the game that are popular. sPvP is sadly not one of them.
The balance patches that are partially aimed towards PvP feels more like personal project of CmC and Roy.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Greyrat.2378

[Mythras.2091]

21 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

No. How do you guys get that idea from? If you can't read, don't comment. Not everyone here is lobbying for self interest. It was just an example of a build where skill to play it and skill to counter it are vastly different. Which is not healthy for a game and one of many reasons PvP is dying.

You missed the point bro. Knowing and using a build is always easier then learning every other builds you will encounter alongside using minimap and rotating well. With time everyone will learn and adapt.

Its not different from other games. its just a little more complex in this game. New players cant even push buttons in the right time, a competitive mode cant be designed around this.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

It is logically impossible to balance a PvP game around "The casual player" as casual players are not equally unskilled in the use of mechanics. Some casuals may be good at X but bad at Y. Others may be bad at X but good at Y. So which do you buff? X or Y? Wuh-oh, Huston we have a problem. This is why you must balance the game around the highest tier of play, since higher skilled players are more likely to have reached the true skill ceiling for X and Y, thus having qually mastered them both, allowing balance decisions to be made based on data that is closer to reflecting the true potential and impact of those variables.

In fact, most balance problems stem from designers failing to understand this. They try to pander balance to casuals, but it always fails because casuals don't know wtf they are doing. All that happens is they create severe balance problems at the higher end due to more complex mechanics being overbuffed, which once the high skilled players figure out the casual players will then learn by monkey-see monkey-do usually within 1~2 months which then just shifts the goalpost resulting in the game never being properly balanced.

Blizzard figured this out with Starcraft REAL quick on why the cries of casuals when it comes to balance are best ignored, which is why Broodwar is considered by many to be one of the best balanced games of all time.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569