Bring back old qScrapper WTH

[Budy.9804]

really new quicknes Scrapper sucks.... pls change back

[Stalima.5490]

I mentioned this in another thread but it is likely because they are aiming for scrapper to use mace on supporting rather than hammer with that 6s cd leap.

[oCynder.5136]

The only problem is requiring two skills to be used just to provide quickness rather than one like every other class. It's a unique idea and looks cool on paper but in application, it feels clunky. But attaching quickness to SS wasn't the best idea but they could've done a better route like if you use a toolbelt skill, apply X amount of quick.

It does feel like they are heading towards the route with the mace mainhand and combing with that mace. And again, it would still feel clunky to play it.

[loregnum.3619]

Yeah, this new style just feels clunky, annoying, and not fun. Scrapper before was a very fun class to play and basically my co-main to now being something I won't even bother playing. 

Maybe in a group it isn't as big an annoyance (no idea i it is or isn't) since you'll have others throwing up fields but solo it sucks and feels so clunky.

Disaster of a change. 

[Crain.4789]

We played fractals last night. I was never aware of how often there are times without any fields on the ground when quickness needs to be renewed. Or how often fields disappear right after releasing jump or blast finishers. I ended up placing my own fields every time just to go the save way 🙄

I also loved using hammer 3 to go fast from enemy to enemy. Now I had to save it up for jump finishers and make extra sure that there is no chance of accidentally jump into death and send quickness into the void... 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

4 hours ago, Crain.4789 said:

We played fractals last night. I was never aware of how often there are times without any fields on the ground when quickness needs to be renewed. Or how often fields disappear right after releasing jump or blast finishers. I ended up placing my own fields every time just to go the save way 🙄

I also loved using hammer 3 to go fast from enemy to enemy. Now I had to save it up for jump finishers and make extra sure that there is no chance of accidentally jump into death and send quickness into the void... 

Yea I pointed this out in the other thread about this, but of course one of the people tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about or the fact it takes two skills never mind we will be losing DPS just to get back to being able to quick regularly.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

14 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I mentioned this in another thread but it is likely because they are aiming for scrapper to use mace on supporting rather than hammer with that 6s cd leap.

If this was their plan they should have released weapon mastery now then instead of later. Instead of punishing us for a future change that is still a little less than two months out, they should have waited until then to make those changes.

[Stalima.5490]

26 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

If this was their plan they should have released weapon mastery now then instead of later. Instead of punishing us for a future change that is still a little less than two months out, they should have waited until then to make those changes.

yeah but you can still 1-button it with the hammer so it all works out anyway. 2 jumps = 10s with 80% boon duration and rocket charge has a 12s cooldown. You are never going to have any uptime issues with the proper stats here, assuming you are using throw mine you are basically racking up 20 seconds ever 12 seconds.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[Tuskali.6417]

21 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I mentioned this in another thread but it is likely because they are aiming for scrapper to use mace on supporting rather than hammer with that 6s cd leap.

That would be a really weird decision if that was the intention wth.

Making the signature weapon useless and giving the signature weapon of another elite spec instead.

I know the elite spec weapons aren´t necessarily the way to go for every elite spec build but making the scrapper weapon useless for scrapper on purpose is kinda dumb when it worked so well before the patch.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Tuskali.6417

[Stalima.5490]

50 minutes ago, Tuskali.6417 said:

That would be a really weird decision if that was the intention wth.

Making the signature weapon useless and giving the signature weapon of another elite spec instead.

I know the elite spec weapons aren´t necessarily the way to go for every elite spec build but making the scrapper weapon useless for scrapper on purpose is kinda dumb when it worked so well before the patch.

except the signature weapon isn't useless... It's just as good at keeping up quickness but healing scrapper is more of a spinoff scrapper so obviously would require a spinoff weapon such as the mace which will bolster the support capabilities via aoe barrier/regen/vigor while maintaining the shield that is normally limited to pistol for scrapper.

[Tuskali.6417]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

except the signature weapon isn't useless... It's just as good at keeping up quickness but healing scrapper is more of a spinoff scrapper so obviously would require a spinoff weapon such as the mace which will bolster the support capabilities via aoe barrier/regen/vigor while maintaining the shield that is normally limited to pistol for scrapper.

Fair enough.

[Gaeb.2837]

+1 please revert, liked old qscrapper.

[Wurzy.5182]

Yes, please bring it back. For a Casual like me it was an easy to play completely fun build. It was good but not too strong and let u play support while having decent damage and still a lot of cool utility.
I dont see why you needed to destroy this!?!? In 11 years with quite a lot disappointments on the way i never felt the need to post or anything. But this change to Scrapper almost hurt my feelings, for messing something up so badly.....

I mean the intention was for the classes not to be dependend on so many skills to keep up one of the 2 big boons. With theses changes u moved no way into that direction while somewhat killing a fun to play class. It is straight BS to me... (and im not talking about banner slave...)
I hope you reconsider. They class was not overpowered. For people like me how play from time to time it was a easy to maintain decent support you could play. Now to make sure to give quickness i would have to manage two ressources (fields + finisher).

If you want more easy access to quickness, put it on 1 or 2 skills to keep it up....... though i dont see scrapper would need that.

[Tuskali.6417]

23 minutes ago, Wurzy.5182 said:

Yes, please bring it back. For a Casual like me it was an easy to play completely fun build. It was good but not too strong and let u play support while having decent damage and still a lot of cool utility.
I dont see why you needed to destroy this!?!? In 11 years with quite a lot disappointments on the way i never felt the need to post or anything. But this change to Scrapper almost hurt my feelings, for messing something up so badly.....

I mean the intention was for the classes not to be dependend on so many skills to keep up one of the 2 big boons. With theses changes u moved no way into that direction while somewhat killing a fun to play class. It is straight BS to me... (and im not talking about banner slave...)
I hope you reconsider. They class was not overpowered. For people like me how play from time to time it was a easy to maintain decent support you could play. Now to make sure to give quickness i would have to manage two ressources (fields + finisher).

If you want more easy access to quickness, put it on 1 or 2 skills to keep it up....... though i dont see scrapper would need that.

I 100% agree. That´s how 90% of scrapper players feel right now.

It´s clunky and just not fun anymore.

I´ve never commented this much on a forum ever.

But this change really hurt because scrapper is so much fun with lots of utility when you don´t have to manage all this forced combo field mechanics.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Tuskali.6417

[mmww.4570]

5 hours ago, Wurzy.5182 said:

Yes, please bring it back. For a Casual like me it was an easy to play completely fun build. It was good but not too strong and let u play support while having decent damage and still a lot of cool utility.
I dont see why you needed to destroy this!?!? In 11 years with quite a lot disappointments on the way i never felt the need to post or anything. But this change to Scrapper almost hurt my feelings, for messing something up so badly.....

I mean the intention was for the classes not to be dependend on so many skills to keep up one of the 2 big boons. With theses changes u moved no way into that direction while somewhat killing a fun to play class. It is straight BS to me... (and im not talking about banner slave...)
I hope you reconsider. They class was not overpowered. For people like me how play from time to time it was a easy to maintain decent support you could play. Now to make sure to give quickness i would have to manage two ressources (fields + finisher).

If you want more easy access to quickness, put it on 1 or 2 skills to keep it up....... though i dont see scrapper would need that.

i feel the exact same. totally killed my motivation to play

[Crain.4789]

Yes, more boon duration is a nice thing. But where's the point when it is no longer fun to apply? 

Jumping uncontrollably beyond the mists as soon as the first enemy dies to fast is just wierd. Mines on the ground aren't triggered half of the time and have to be activated manually for the blast finisher. Of course I recognize it way to late due to the clutter of fights, so that prepared fields are already gone. Seems like I have to look more on my skillbar instead on whats "really" going on.

I refuse to believe that this can be intentional.

Didn't test turret because I just don't really like it. Blast gyro works fine as always, but it felt dumb to release function gyro although nobody was downed or had to be stomped. 
Will have a look at the other skills that provide jumps and blasts but I hardly doubt there will be a combination that brings back the speedy and dynamic playstyle Scrapper had before (especially because other players hardly report anything positive). I totally feel with everyone who gets demotivated and sad due to the changes made. 

Further (incomplete) thoughts on usefullness in fractals: Think about effects that have to be carried away from the boss or group (e.g. flux bombs, the violett circles of Siren's Reef or Horrik's fiery cannon shots). Or all those effects you want to avoid as fast as possible. With hammer 3 Scrapper is locked in place (if the boss doesn't die or disappear right in that moment) and feels like the fourth mistlock instability. Happy dying, I guess 😔

[Raven.1793]

Bring back the old scrapper. Quickness on gyros was great and nobody had a problem with taking 3+ gyros for quickness. I'd drop gyros before a fight and burst for 20 seconds before dropping another set. I could count on Rocket Charge for emergency defense and mobility. Even in 50% diviner and with subpar benchmarks, I was still able to contribute good damage because I could focus dps in burst phases and use Rocket Charge to avoid attacks while dealing damage.

The new scrapper sucks to play. Sure I can upkeep 100% quick in 100% zerker on the golem but that doesn't matter because I now have to spend a greater amount of time and attention on quickness upkeep. Quickness now requires both a field and a finisher meaning that we are now locked into even more skills than before. Rocket Charge is useless now since it has to be cast on cooldown and can no longer be used reactively. Furthermore, the skills required to upkeep quickness take longer to use than before resulting in a noticeable loss of dps. Quick scrapper was already near the bottom of the benchmarks and I imagine that it won't be considered viable anymore after this.

Note that mace won't change anything. The new quick scrapper has no problems with quickness uptime. It has a problem with dps. Mace dps is already bad and no amount of utilities will bring it to a viable level as long as we need to allocate this much time to the quickness rotation.

Quickness on combo is just bad. Revert this change.

[Tuskali.6417]

Please Anet...

Just look at this...

 

[Sir Cusfreak.5971]

The new scrapper just isn't fun to play, and the old one was.

• I don't want Function Gyro in my rotation.
• I don't want Hammer 3 in my rotation.
• I don't want to feel forced into bomb kit or healing turret.
• I don't want to give less Superspeed. 

The best suggestion is just please revert this. I get the 'dont spam utilities' idea, but that idea was always better for some builds than others. The group-PvE hammer Scrapper quickness DPS build? That was fun with gyros.  

The second best would be to buff Rifle on Scrapper without buffing Mech. That way, we at least get the good leap (that we have control of, and doesn't yeet us off platforms or into Narnia), and we'd have better procs of Aim-Assisted Rocket. Rifle Scrapper can be very fun to play, but the damage is too low. This change could be good with Rifle, the kit synergy is there, but the numbers just aren't. 

[Tuskali.6417]

8 hours ago, Sir Cusfreak.5971 said:

The new scrapper just isn't fun to play, and the old one was.

• I don't want Function Gyro in my rotation.
• I don't want Hammer 3 in my rotation.
• I don't want to feel forced into bomb kit or healing turret.
• I don't want to give less Superspeed. 

The best suggestion is just please revert this. I get the 'dont spam utilities' idea, but that idea was always better for some builds than others. The group-PvE hammer Scrapper quickness DPS build? That was fun with gyros.  

The second best would be to buff Rifle on Scrapper without buffing Mech. That way, we at least get the good leap (that we have control of, and doesn't yeet us off platforms or into Narnia), and we'd have better procs of Aim-Assisted Rocket. Rifle Scrapper can be very fun to play, but the damage is too low. This change could be good with Rifle, the kit synergy is there, but the numbers just aren't. 

I agree.

I´m praying Anet just reverts the changes to be honest. It´s so so obvious that the large majority of players just hate scrapper as it is now.

Anet please. Would it break the game if you´d just revert it?

I almost feel bad because I feel like I´m to harsh about all of that. But it´s just so frustrating when a fun build you played for a long time gets changed to a clunky mess.

If it´s already set in stone for you for whatever reason, at least give us whirl finisher on kinetic acceleration and a another combofield on Shredder Gyro so it´s like Blast Gyro. At least we would have one more gyro with easier quickness application for quick heal and quick dps.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Tuskali.6417

[SolarDragon.7063]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, new scrapper is vastly less fun.
Combo fields are not a good mechanic to force, and tying it to a weapon that has forced movement is even worse.

[AlPower.2476]

I'm enjoying new power quickness scrapper, and I enjoyed the old one

However, I understand people that doesn't like it. Or support scrapper players that were hit hard. 

In the other hand, I don't understand people that claims that the old scrapper was Op as for quickness sharing due to easy ways to apply it. I mean, I've been playing healbrand for years, and condi quickness one. He applies quickness even easier, with 3 simple skills (2 mantras and feel my wrath).

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by AlPower.2476

[Jerus.4350]

4 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

In the other hand, I don't understand people that claims that the old scrapper was Op as for quickness sharing due to easy ways to apply it. I mean, I've been playing healbrand for years, and condi quickness one. He applies quickness even easier, with 3 simple skills (2 mantras and feel my wrath).

 

I wouldn’t call old Scrapper OP at all, but when I read a lot of the complaints about the change it basically comes down to “I liked it before when it was simpler”.  I think that’s a completely valid opinion, I think I’d say I liked the old pqScrapper more, it was super comfy.  But, when I see people making just false claims about how the new version doesn’t work, or is fundamentally broken, I can’t help but roll my eyes, and that’s when I’m thinking “yeah you just miss how easy it was”.  
 

In the end new scrapper is very functional.  Some quality of life things were lost in exchange for more damage on pqScrapper, a very viable condi quick build, and an objectively superior heal build(in PVE).  I’ll take it.  

Plus I’m a bit bias in that I actually really like the combo field mechanic and I’m glad ANet is pushing that, not that Engi ever shouldn’t have been utilizing it.  So obviously I like this change, feels very Engi to me as a player from back when you took Ele and Engi builds specifically to might stack (and Ele for broken conjures).

[foxtrot.6902]

idk think some might confuse easy versus flow, old definitely had a nice flow- the new changes I feel like are close but something is missing bc it feels way more clunky after getting to play it more in open world and strikes 

@Jerus.4350  happen to have that viable condition quick build handy? curious to check out for fun and having a hard time imagining anything other than a worse off core condition build that offers quick. 

 

[Jerus.4350]

30 minutes ago, foxtrot.6902 said:

idk think some might confuse easy versus flow, old definitely had a nice flow- the new changes I feel like are close but something is missing bc it feels way more clunky after getting to play it more in open world and strikes 

@Jerus.4350  happen to have that viable condition quick build handy? curious to check out for fun and having a hard time imagining anything other than a worse off core condition build that offers quick. 

 

Full Viper with Firebrand Runes, pistols with Geomancy (or bursting) and Earth sigils.  
 

Standard condi Explosions/Firearms traits.  Whatever you want for first Scrapper trait, then object in motion and kinetic accelerators of course.

 

Then yeah it’s standard 3-4 kit condi Engi rotation making sure to prioritize FT2 for quickness and Big ol Bomb.  There is actually a lot of leeway such that function gyro isn’t needed, but the way I run it simplified a little I want to hit it at least once every few cooldowns worth (so as long as I’m not completely ignoring it I’m fine). Meaning Function can be saved for rez/stab/superspeed/filler quickness.  Heal Turret or Medkit can also be taken for some extra quickness, not bad to load up some extra at the start of phases or before you have to run off for a mechanic.  Hits ~32.5k if played well, for me 30kish haha.

 

I think you’re right on the old one just flowing, but it was also just “keep these 5 things on cooldown” and easier in that regard.  I can say I’ve screwed up quite a bit on this new one by poorly planning fields.  Slowly getting used to it.  I think it will grow on people as they get used to it and find the variations and boon duration levels that fit them.  Technically Function gyro isn’t needed on pqScrapper either but it helps superspeed uptime and gives leeway that I think most of us need at this point.  If you add Healing Turret, there is a lot of flex and you can more comfortably use hammer 3.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Jerus.4350