why nerf turtle slam? [Merged]

[Smoky.5348]

7 hours ago, Manpag.6421 said:

Aren’t those statements a bit of a contradiction? Either it’s broken, or it’s easy to out-DPS. And like you say, it’s not been popular. I can understand nerfing something if it’s rife and ruining other peoples’ fun, but given that few people actually like driving the turtle, it never really caught on.

Yeah, I did say it's inconsistent. It's broken for people who don't know how to get high DPS and broken for core Tyria in general. But, it's nigh useless for the people who can easily out-damage it; and if you can't do that, it's just a good way to tank 60k damage in expansions since you won't stay on for long either due to CC or damage. 

Anyway, yes, when I first read about the Pilot Booster, l wasn't understanding its purpose. Running around is how you refuel, and the slam takes away all momentum. Even 40% didn't sound worthwhile when the cooldown is so long. So unfortunately, it secretly removing the cooldown at first probably spoiled everyone who gave it a try. Improving acceleration sounds like good compensation, though.

Ah, and natch, they wouldn't fix the ammo bug. They can only fix one turtle bug at a time every few months. But hopefully, dwindling completion rates of the meta will clue them in to fix something on either side of the problem.

[Auras.8302]

i've always been able to outperform my turtle. i chose to ride it in metas where dps didnt matter quite as much because it was fun, not because it was strong.

 

its no longer fun, so now theres no reason t oride the turtle

 

simple as.

[Khisanth.2948]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, NeroVox.4351 said:

but there is no reason for a mordrem in brisban to knock me off the mount in one shot

Depends on which mordrem. The vines that goes underground and popups back out has always hit for ridiculous amounts. The same vines in HoT maps deal less damage.

On 7/2/2023 at 7:53 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Problem is, half of Gyala meta is dependant on masses on people being on turtles, and this bug was one of the reasons why it even worked. So, if they make turtle useless once again, they should redo those metas to not require the turtle.

I wonder who looked at WvW and thought the best part is PvDoor

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

I wonder who looked at WvW and thought the best part is PvDoor

Oh yes, there are definitely some issues with event design there. The very idea of validating existence of the turtle by making it required for metas wasn't all that good from the very beginning. In WvW, at least, siege was part of the mode design from the very beginning, so its usage is relatively natural. Turtles on the other hand cannot be even mounted while in combat...

[Khisanth.2948]

33 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh yes, there are definitely some issues with event design there. The very idea of validating existence of the turtle by making it required for metas wasn't all that good from the very beginning. In WvW, at least, siege was part of the mode design from the very beginning, so its usage is relatively natural. Turtles on the other hand cannot be even mounted while in combat...

and then there is the energy collection ...

I want to see the design doc that tries to explain how that is fun and engaging gameplay.

[Slartibartfast.5416]

Ok, I get that maybe you didn't like that turtle slam had zero cooldown at all.  Fine.  But putting it back to 4 seconds, what even is the point of investing in Turtle Pilot Booster 3 now?  To fly a couple seconds longer?  Not enough.  You make slam on Turtle Pilot Booster 3 give 40% of an ammo per slam.. but locking that behind a 4 second slam cooldown renders that ammo regen pretty much meaningless.

Here are some options to make it workable:

• For Turtle Pilot Booster 1, 2 and 3 reduce the cooldown from 4 seconds to 3, 2, 1 for each level of booster.  
• If you really want to give slam meaningful ammo regen with Pilot Booster, then increase both the damage the 4 second slam does, and increase the ammo regen from 40% to something higher.

One of the above 2 options would make it more worth using.  Otherwise, we can only assume that the sensory array and service chip modules are only there as fluff, and not designed to provide anything really meaningful. Just a carrot to chase.

[Linken.6345]

19 minutes ago, Slartibartfast.5416 said:

Ok, I get that maybe you didn't like that turtle slam had zero cooldown at all.  Fine.  But putting it back to 4 seconds, what even is the point of investing in Turtle Pilot Booster 3 now?  To fly a couple seconds longer?  Not enough.  You make slam on Turtle Pilot Booster 3 give 40% of an ammo per slam.. but locking that behind a 4 second slam cooldown renders that ammo regen pretty much meaningless.

Here are some options to make it workable:

• For Turtle Pilot Booster 1, 2 and 3 reduce the cooldown from 4 seconds to 3, 2, 1 for each level of booster.  
• If you really want to give slam meaningful ammo regen with Pilot Booster, then increase both the damage the 4 second slam does, and increase the ammo regen from 40% to something higher.

One of the above 2 options would make it more worth using.  Otherwise, we can only assume that the sensory array and service chip modules are only there as fluff, and not designed to provide anything really meaningful. Just a carrot to chase.

Ofcourse it is fluff, what else did you expect?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

its almost like a horde of turtles melting world bosses wasn't a good idea?

[Smoky.5348]

Sorry, but it was a bug and it spoiled you. The pilot booster needs a buff to ammo regen and/or it needs some other pilot-related thing like added acceleration. The slam already got its buff in the time it takes to move after using it.

[Slartibartfast.5416]

8 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Sorry, but it was a bug and it spoiled you. The pilot booster needs a buff to ammo regen and/or it needs some other pilot-related thing like added acceleration. The slam already got its buff in the time it takes to move after using it.

So... it's just all fluff, then.

[Slartibartfast.5416]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Ofcourse it is fluff, what else did you expect?

Yeah, we know it is.. but I just wanna make 'em say it!

[Slartibartfast.5416]

8 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

its almost like a horde of turtles melting world bosses wasn't a good idea?

I wasn't part of that. 😛  But yeah.. as soon as I saw that youtube vid of the turtle DE meta, I foresaw this happening.  And as it was foretold, so it happened.

I can work with 1 second slam if you have pilot booster 3.  Even 2 second.  But 4... zero reduction at all?  I'm not on board with that.

[Linken.6345]

21 minutes ago, Slartibartfast.5416 said:

Yeah, we know it is.. but I just wanna make 'em say it!

Not going to happen

[Echostorm.9143]

They nerf it because nothing can ever be kittening easy or fun with Anet, I think it's the PVP mentality that has pervaded the upper designers that everything has to be a complicated struggle or it's somehow wrong.  Classes get less fun every time CmC touches them, by next summer we'll just all be grey balls with 50 step strict rotations that do 20k at best. 

[Auras.8302]

17 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

its almost like a horde of turtles melting world bosses wasn't a good idea?

melting wold bosses faster or slower than people not using the turtle?

because turtle st dps was never great. even with no cd on the slam it was quite easy to outdps turtle, and on st, your slams didnt generate nearly enough ammo to keep your passenger spamming. when i rode shogun i could shoot all 5 of my shots and then spend the next little bit watching youtube then dump all my ammo again.

 

its crazy because as good as the mounts are in this game, anet sure does hate people having fun on them

Edited July 5, 2023 by Auras.8302

[Sweetbread.3678]

5 hours ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

They nerf it because nothing can ever be kittening easy or fun with Anet, I think it's the PVP mentality that has pervaded the upper designers that everything has to be a complicated struggle or it's somehow wrong.  Classes get less fun every time CmC touches them, by next summer we'll just all be grey balls with 50 step strict rotations that do 20k at best. 

Complicated struggle in this situation literally being "Can't just sit in a turtle spamming 1 non-stop". God this game's playerbase is really pathetic sometimes. Like why do you people even play video games if you're deathly afraid of anything actually being interactive? Just go watch Netflix or something.

[Echostorm.9143]

7 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Complicated struggle in this situation literally being "Can't just sit in a turtle spamming 1 non-stop". God this game's playerbase is really pathetic sometimes. Like why do you people even play video games if you're deathly afraid of anything actually being interactive? Just go watch Netflix or something.

Being good at a 40 step rotation doesn't make you a gamer, it makes you a macro.  Take your tryhard toxic kitten elsewhere troll.

[Sweetbread.3678]

4 minutes ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

Being good at a 40 step rotation doesn't make you a gamer, it makes you a macro.  Take your tryhard toxic kitten elsewhere troll.

Tryhard in this situation literally being "Expects the game to require interaction beyond sitting in a turtle spamming 1 non-stop".

[Smoky.5348]

Turtle will never not be boring for most people unless they let the pilot use all the skills or something. With no slam cooldown, you're spamming 1 while holding a movement direction; with the standard cooldown, you're performing one slam and either running around for ammo or using jump jets rhythmically until cooldown is over. As much as I, too, like the turtle, it's not an engaging playstyle and it's full of arbitrary limitations.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, Auras.8302 said:

melting wold bosses faster or slower than people not using the turtle?

because turtle st dps was never great. even with no cd on the slam it was quite easy to outdps turtle, and on st, your slams didnt generate nearly enough ammo to keep your passenger spamming. when i rode shogun i could shoot all 5 of my shots and then spend the next little bit watching youtube then dump all my ammo again.

 

its crazy because as good as the mounts are in this game, anet sure does hate people having fun on them

i'm afraid you haven't done your research before making this reply. with proper management of the turtle it could out-dps most of the squad, only being exceeded by players with proper damage builds and rotations which is a very low percentage of the population. this means that in a squad your turtle wasn't in the top 10% but it was in the top 15-20%, and that's too much for something that can easily break bars, protects you from damage and so on.

 

i don't know where half f you have been for the last few months, but most meta-events turned into nothing but turtle fiestas, and towards the end even stuff like dragonstorm was becoming almost exclusively turtles. i think arenanet drew the line after dragon's end.

Edited July 6, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Slartibartfast.5416]

On 7/5/2023 at 7:48 PM, Auras.8302 said:

melting wold bosses faster or slower than people not using the turtle?

because turtle st dps was never great. even with no cd on the slam it was quite easy to outdps turtle, and on st, your slams didnt generate nearly enough ammo to keep your passenger spamming. when i rode shogun i could shoot all 5 of my shots and then spend the next little bit watching youtube then dump all my ammo again.

 

its crazy because as good as the mounts are in this game, anet sure does hate people having fun on them

I agree.  In that video of the turtles on the DE meta, it was slower than if they hadn't used turtles at all.  They succeeded, but it was slow.  Using turtles was just a fun gimmick.  But it certainly isn't something game-breaking that everyone will suddenly do.  It wasn't worth the nerf.