What is the point of Bladeturn Requiem (F5) now?

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

I fail to see the use of f5 now that the block is gone.  It was only useful for the block because the damage was terribly bad.  So help me to understand why I would want to use f5 since the other Blade songs have better use of my blades.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

If only there were 5 other threads about this subject to post in. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

Right now the point is that it is a good source of DPS for Condition Virtuoso.

It is a detriment used by a Power Virtuoso though.

It causes a lot of hits which cause a lot of stacks of Bleeding for Condition Virtuosos. And it's Instant Cast so it doesn't interrupt other attacks you're doing.

 

But if you aren't using the Bleeding Traits or boosting your Condi Damage then don't press the button.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

12 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Right now the point is that it is a good source of DPS for Condition Virtuoso.

It is a detriment used by a Power Virtuoso though.

It causes a lot of hits which cause a lot of stacks of Bleeding for Condition Virtuosos. And it's Instant Cast so it doesn't interrupt other attacks you're doing.

 

But if you aren't using the Bleeding Traits or boosting your Condi Damage then don't press the button.

I guess, but wouldn’t f2 be a better use?

[Mell.4873]

15 hours ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

I guess, but wouldn’t f2 be a better use?

You will have more blades than F1 and F2 shatters even if you trait an extra charge on F1. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Roadkizzle.2157]

7 hours ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

I guess, but wouldn’t f2 be a better use?

They're about even.

Condi Virtuoso gains blades so quickly that it runs out of Shatters. In the Snowcrows benchmark they balance out during the F1, F2, and F5 shatters.

F2 has a cast time, and can only be targeted ahead of you, and is ranged

F5 doesn't have a cast time, hits things all around you but in melee range. I think it also gets more Torment stacks from Mail the Disillusioned trait because the hits are spaced out in pulses.

 

Condi Virt was only doing 37-38k dps in the last patch. Now it's doing 40-41k DPS. F5 is one of the skills doing more damage than in the last patch due to the removal of the cast time it can be used while fighting better.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

I suppose so.  i still prefer the block though in competitive modes.

[Zevrael.4061]

On 7/3/2023 at 12:25 PM, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

I fail to see the use of f5 now that the block is gone.  It was only useful for the block because the damage was terribly bad.  So help me to understand why I would want to use f5 since the other Blade songs have better use of my blades.

If you're playing Condi Virt you'll generate more blades that you can throw on F1/F2. If you're at 5 stocked blades you don't "generate" more therefore you don't get Compounding Power buff and if you don't use your Bladesongs you also don't get Deadly Blades buff either.

In other words, F5 works as an emergency dump for your blades to keep your self damage buffs rolling while also providing some damage if you're in melee range.

[Pengu.7481]

https://youtu.be/EAY5AXCWK04

might be great in pve, but its absolute shite in pvp/wvw

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Pengu.7481 said:

https://youtu.be/EAY5AXCWK04

might be great in pve, but its absolute shite in pvp/wvw

Again that's not true either, running though a Zerg clash where you can't face any particular target it can be a valuable alternative to blowing all your blades on nothing. 

They probably just need to up the damage a little. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Pengu.7481]

11 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Again that's not true either, running though a Zerg clash where you can't face any particular target it can be a valuable alternative to blowing all your blades on nothing. 

They probably just need to up the damage a little. 

they need to up the dmg by alot, like double what it is now in terms of power dmg before its worth using besides for getting some passive procs

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:10 PM, Pengu.7481 said:

they need to up the dmg by alot, like double what it is now in terms of power dmg before its worth using besides for getting some passive procs

Yeah, damage on it is very negligible. 

[Jitters.9401]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:57 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Again that's not true either,

Actually,  it is true.

There are far too many cleanses going off in zergs for someone to do any real condi damage.  May as well show up to a "gun fight" with "spitballs". 

I've tried different methods to spread condition damage, but it is cleansed so quickly. 

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Actually,  it is true.

There are far too many cleanses going off in zergs for someone to do any real condi damage.  May as well show up to a "gun fight" with "spitballs". 

I've tried different methods to spread condition damage, but it is cleansed so quickly. 

Whoever said you needed to run a Condition damage build. Power builds are much better in WvW anyway. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

27 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Whoever said you needed to run a Condition damage build. Power builds are much better in WvW anyway. 

Because Bladeturn Requiem doesn't have any strike damage. You're better off just sticking with auto attacks instead of pressing F5 if you haven't created your build for Condi Damage and the Bleeding and Torment stacks.

[Pengu.7481]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Whoever said you needed to run a Condition damage build. Power builds are much better in WvW anyway. 

because it has no value on powerbuilds, only thing its good for is passives and id rather save my blades for F1 instead

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Because Bladeturn Requiem doesn't have any strike damage. You're better off just sticking with auto attacks instead of pressing F5 if you haven't created your build for Condi Damage and the Bleeding and Torment stacks.

3 hours ago, Pengu.7481 said:

because it has no value on powerbuilds, only thing its good for is passives and id rather save my blades for F1 instead

Most if not all the Virtuoso YouTube compilation feature Power with the one exception being a Confusion F2 build that can one shot Elementalists
Honestly, I don't think anyone suggests Condition Mesmer builds (Maybe Mirage Staff???), they should all be power unless you want the cheese confusion build.

 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

52 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most if not all the Virtuoso YouTube compilation feature Power with the one exception being a Confusion F2 build that can one shot Elementalists
Honestly, I don't think anyone suggests Condition Mesmer builds (Maybe Mirage Staff???), they should all be power unless you want the cheese confusion build.

 

And your point is?

I never said that condi was viable in WVW. I understand that power builds are preferred there due to Condi cleanses.

I just said that Requiem does less Strike damage than the auto attacks and much less than the other Bladestorms

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

And your point is?

I never said that condi was viable in WVW. I understand that power builds are preferred there due to Condi cleanses.

I just said that Requiem does less Strike damage than the auto attacks and much less than the other Bladestorms

Okay but is still being used, the Video I linked proved it.

Sure, it's not doing a lot of Damage, the F1 Bladesong did the most in the video which makes sense.
If you are in a Zerg clash Bladeturn Requiem is the next best thing since F2, F3 a single target.

It probably just needs a power coefficient buff.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Pengu.7481]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:46 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Okay but is still being used, the Video I linked proved it.

Sure, it's not doing a lot of Damage, the F1 Bladesong did the most in the video which makes sense.
If you are in a Zerg clash Bladeturn Requiem is the next best thing since F2, F3 a single target.

It probably just needs a power coefficient buff.

mate did u see the video i posted? it does 2.8k on a light golem when using zerg stats. sure u can pump the dmg a bit more in wvw but that doesnt change the fact that anet devs called it "aoe cleave dmg skill" and as @Roadkizzle.2157 pointed out, auto's hit harder than that. im not gonna stand around in melee range for 6 seconds to do 2.8k when mindstab does 3.6k and is 1200 range on 1/3'rd the cooldown.

damage needs to be atleast double before id even think about giving that skill a keybind again.

edit: another thing, i wouldnt be in the middle of a blob to get full value out of that skill to begin with since that would be suicide on a full berserk mesmer, 90% of our skills are ranged anyway. let the melee big boys be on the front

Edited July 14, 2023 by Pengu.7481

[Mell.4873]

58 minutes ago, Pengu.7481 said:

mate did u see the video i posted? it does 2.8k on a light golem when using zerg stats. sure u can pump the dmg a bit more in wvw but that doesnt change the fact that anet devs called it "aoe cleave dmg skill" and as @Roadkizzle.2157 pointed out, auto's hit harder than that. im not gonna stand around in melee range for 6 seconds to do 2.8k when mindstab does 3.6k and is 1200 range on 1/3'rd the cooldown.

damage needs to be atleast double before id even think about giving that skill a keybind again.

edit: another thing, i wouldnt be in the middle of a blob to get full value out of that skill to begin with since that would be suicide on a full berserk mesmer, 90% of our skills are ranged anyway. let the melee big boys be on the front

Yeah doubling the strike damage would be fine. All I'm saying is it's not useless.

You do realise most peoples skills come off cooldown before they duel/clash. The likely hood you can recast something even after 10 seconds is very unlikely in WvW since normally the fight is over or the zerg has regrouped.

Zergs also stack, I never heard anyone let Melee in front. This isn't some medieval battle, is just Zerg ball vs Zerg ball hense why you can use Bladeturn Requiem, maybe if you were a Swarm you could make that arguement.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah doubling the strike damage would be fine. All I'm saying is it's not useless.

You do realise most peoples skills come off cooldown before they duel/clash. The likely hood you can recast something even after 10 seconds is very unlikely in WvW since normally the fight is over or the zerg has regrouped.

Zergs also stack, I never heard anyone let Melee in front. This isn't some medieval battle, is just Zerg ball vs Zerg ball hense why you can use Bladeturn Requiem, maybe if you were a Swarm you could make that arguement.

Dude/Dudette 200dmg per hit isn't worth a kitten. You'll deal way more damage just auto-attacking.
If you take into account that you need to be in melee range and shatter 5 blades it is the worst skill in game by far.
If they double the damage it would still be useless garbage.

[phokus.8934]

I wouldn't mind if it scaled off of the number of blades but never consumed the blades when used.

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Dude/Dudette 200dmg per hit isn't worth a kitten. You'll deal way more damage just auto-attacking.
If you take into account that you need to be in melee range and shatter 5 blades it is the worst skill in game by far.
If they double the damage it would still be useless garbage.

Okay well I don't think so. 

2 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

I wouldn't mind if it scaled off of the number of blades but never consumed the blades when used.

Yeah right now it just increases the duration which does seem redundant if there is no block. 

[Pengu.7481]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:09 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Zergs also stack, I never heard anyone let Melee in front. This isn't some medieval battle, is just Zerg ball vs Zerg ball hense why you can use Bladeturn Requiem, maybe if you were a Swarm you could make that arguement.

yea i have to admit im roaming 90% of the time so dont have much knowlegde when it comes to zerg vs zerg.

i also agree that F5 isnt completely useless. but is by far the worst skill we have on our loadouts atm. so much so i removed keybind as to not press it by mistake. 

removing block was the right call, but leaving nothing in compensation was not