PvE Achievements vs WvW Reward Tracks

[Jianyu.7065]

I'm sure this has been discussed to Cantha and back, but on the pve hand you have something that requires a lot of effort and comes with much frustration. It's very lengthy and practically unnecessary in comparison to wvw reward tracks that give the same rewards with, basically, a small time commitment. You don't even have to be good at wvw. You can go there, cap a couple camps for a few hours and then a couple days pass by and you complete the reward track with zero issue - just 6-8 hours of your time capping camps in wvw. 

My question is why is this so lopsided. The pve route requires much skill and patience and knowledge, and gameplay over the course of several pve quests and achievement tracks. Where the wvw route requires very little skill, minimum patience and practically no knowledge of how wvw works, and you only have to enter the maps - you only have to figure out how to cap the closest camps; which can be done solo.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Jianyu.7065

[Gorani.7205]

Please elaborate, because you seem to compare apples to oranges.
Killing 1000 Undead requires no skill, knowledge or patience (an example for a PvE Achievement). Where is your overlap? Doing Dungeons vs. doing the the WvW. Dungeon reward track? I don't really know what you are complaining about? Legendaries ?

Edited July 7, 2023 by Gorani.7205

[Jianyu.7065]

6 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

Please elaborate, because you seem to compare apples to oranges.
Killing 1000 Undead requires no skill, knowledge or patience (an example for a PvE Achievement). Where is your overlap? Doing Dungeons vs. doing the the WvW. Dungeon reward track? I don't really know what you are complaining about? Legendaries ?

Sure, guy.

Something like the pve achievement track for the Corsair armor skins vs wvw reward track for the same item. 

[Gorani.7205]

If you take the Daybreak meta compared to the Istan reward track the Istan track is an alternative to get that LS season's special armour skin. I don't see a problem with that, if you want to speed up the process with going for the track. Doing the PvE route you have the choice to do 30 out of 44 possible achievements  (inlcuding 5 sec interaction with a mastery point). You will get way more out of playing the PvE map than doing 6 hours of WvW by spawn hopping to a sentry or camp to flip it after 5 or 10 minutes. BTW, PvP has that reward track too - again a chance to get some "open world" stuff in a game mode that has not had updates for many many years.

[Erich.1783]

People who prefer to play just WvW but would like to get Aurora/Vision will already need to spend a great deal of time in a game mode they do not prefer, this is just one way to limit the amount of time spent.  The group that benefits the most would be the people who enjoy both game modes, but since the Legendary system seems to be designed to get people to try different game modes it seem appropriate that this would be the case.

[idpersona.3810]

Also worth noting: if you do the WvW/PvP tracks you can get that final item, but you lose out on a lot of the achievement rewards you get for those 30/44 achievements (example) completed. And the achievement points themselves might also be important to you.

Also, while I would say the tracks are much more straight forward, it is entirely possible to finish the example 30/44 achievements in less than 6-8 hours.

[Jianyu.7065]

9 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

If you take the Daybreak meta compared to the Istan reward track the Istan track is an alternative to get that LS season's special armour skin. I don't see a problem with that, if you want to speed up the process with going for the track. Doing the PvE route you have the choice to do 30 out of 44 possible achievements  (inlcuding 5 sec interaction with a mastery point). You will get way more out of playing the PvE map than doing 6 hours of WvW by spawn hopping to a sentry or camp to flip it after 5 or 10 minutes. BTW, PvP has that reward track too - again a chance to get some "open world" stuff in a game mode that has not had updates for many many years.

I guess. But, what is gained or not on the side isn't the point. The point is - you can shuffle around the trial and error of figuring out how to complete 30 achievements on an achievement path, some of which require you to master quests that come with their own set of individual achievements versus spending a few hours a day frolicking through wvw for a skin piece. While the pve achievements and metas, yadda yadda can just be picked up when you have what you want. The effort involved is considerably more for pve. My opinion is one from a player who doesn't prefer pvp and frequently works to complete pve achievement paths. 

I mean, a player can literally spend an entire day failing at dodging a boss mechanic as part of "one" achievement to master a quest as part of "one" achievement along an overarching achievement path for a single item, or simply spend that same time in wvw hopping and skipping around and earn the item with little effort.

It just seems silly. It's not so much about a players preference in comparison to how silly the imbalance is. 

[Jianyu.7065]

4 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Also worth noting: if you do the WvW/PvP tracks you can get that final item, but you lose out on a lot of the achievement rewards you get for those 30/44 achievements (example) completed. And the achievement points themselves might also be important to you.

Also, while I would say the tracks are much more straight forward, it is entirely possible to finish the example 30/44 achievements in less than 6-8 hours.

Right. And I agree but that's not really the point. You can still go back and complete the pve achievement path once you have what you want from the wvw reward track. I find if I want something specific that I can get from a wvw track then that's where I'm going for it. 

I guess my opinion is more so toward what this says about wvw, and not pve. 

[idpersona.3810]

10 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

It just seems silly. It's not so much about a players preference in comparison to how silly the imbalance is. 

One of the "A Star to Guide Us" achievements was right click on a fish. Another was bring food to a fox. Once I realized I didn't need 38 of 38 achievements, I narrowed down the ones I was doing. You only actually need 38 of 70 or something (including all the hidden ones) for example. I ended up knocking out that map over a week which is only a bit more time than a track may take someone (at an hour or 2 a day).

Mind you, this is obviously just my experience with it. Again though, you lose out on a lot of those achievement rewards as part of going the WvW/PvP route.

 

Edit: just saw your additional response:

4 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

Right. And I agree but that's not really the point. You can still go back and complete the pve achievement path once you have what you want from the wvw reward track. I find if I want something specific that I can get from a wvw track then that's where I'm going for it. 

I guess my opinion is more so toward what this says about wvw, and not pve. 

Genuine question, but what do you think it says about WvW?

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Jianyu.7065]

1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Mind you, this is obviously just my experience with it. Again though, you lose out on a lot of those achievement rewards as part of going the WvW/PvP route.

You can still do the pve achievements no matter what.

[Gorani.7205]

Could it be that you are just very angry about, that you discovered a way to get ONE skin from a part of the game you don't like, via a method that is looked down upon by more dedicated WvW players, you needed to spend more time and a bit of effort on to get?

[idpersona.3810]

4 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

You can still do the pve achievements no matter what.

I get that. I suppose I'm asking what the issue is. Do you think WvW has it too easy? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth and am just kind of guessing at point.

[Endaris.1452]

12 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

You can still go back and complete the pve achievement path once you have what you want from the wvw reward track

And then you get an item/skin you already have and it would have been more advantageous to do Triumphant/Legacy/GoB or any other reward track really if you were to do the PvE achievement anyway. Nothing wrong here.

[Jianyu.7065]

5 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

Could it be that you are just very angry about, that you discovered a way to get ONE skin from a part of the game you don't like, via a method that is looked down upon by more dedicated WvW players, you needed to spend more time and a bit of effort on to get?

Cmon, guy. You don't have to take it down some path you assume has to do with my overall attitude. You also don't have to make any assumptions at all. Could it be that you think you have all the answers and resort to insults when you don't?

There IS a valid point to make between the effort involved in acquiring ONE skin from a pve achievement path versus a wvw reward track. Your opinion, apparently, is that the pve path requires less effort. 

As someone who really only plays pve, I try my hand at this wvw thing for ONE skin and can't help to wonder why it is seemingly requiring far less effort. I'm not angry or sad or in any certain way about it.

[idpersona.3810]

2 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

As someone who really only plays pve, I try my hand at this wvw thing for ONE skin and can't help to wonder why it is seemingly requiring far less effort. I'm not angry or sad or in any certain way about it.

Personally WvW is the route I took for every item that was available that way (for both Aurora and Vision). I think "less effort" depends on what kind of gameplay you enjoy. I don't normally like achievement hunting. But for the one I had to do, it didn't end up seeming terribly more time consuming comparatively. And there were several hidden rewards in those achievements.

[Jianyu.7065]

2 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Personally WvW is the route I took for every item that was available that way (for both Aurora and Vision). I think "less effort" depends on what kind of gameplay you enjoy. I don't normally like achievement hunting. But for the one I had to do, it didn't end up seeming terribly more time consuming comparatively. And there were several hidden rewards in those achievements.

I'm doing the pve paths either way. But after earning over 10k achievement points, I can't help but think the wvw reward track was kinda silly in comparison. 

[idpersona.3810]

3 minutes ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

I'm doing the pve paths either way. But after earning over 10k achievement points, I can't help but think the wvw reward track was kinda silly in comparison. 

Eh...it let's WvW players have a direct way to get some items needed for the legendaries. And/or gives OW players a reason to dip into WvW or PvP and give the game modes a try.
It's not a bad option to have when looking at it in that light.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

You can still do the pve achievements no matter what.

and how would a WvW player get those achievements done without playing Pve?

You are comapring 1 singular aspect of the entire reward versus game play process between 2 different game modes with a very heavy bias towards one of the modes.

As is, WvW and Spvp rewards tracks are in place to somewhat replicate the reward structres present in PvE and while this does lead to occasional benefits (in this case to reduce PvE needed for specific legendary items), in the end they only partially achieve to replicate the rewards, and for the rest, PvE remains mandatory.

In case of Pve players, they even get to choose which approach they prefer.

What was it you said? You can go back and do the achievements? Exactly, and as PvE player you get to choose to WvW or not. As a WvW player you HAVE to PvE for some of the rewards.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Nogothanc.5014]

2 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

...on the pve hand you have something that requires a lot of effort and comes with much frustration. It's very lengthy and practically unnecessary in comparison to wvw reward tracks that give the same rewards with, basically, a small time commitment.

Oh cherry-picking and compare hard to get stuff in PvE with easy to get sttuff from WvW....

If WvW is so easy. well go and get the God of WvW title or go get the WvW legendary armor... get it Solo with just flipping camps... 

 

[Lily.5842]

1 minute ago, Nogothanc.5014 said:

go get the WvW legendary armor... get it Solo with just flipping camps... 

Hmm... that's depending on your WvW rank about 12 to 15 hours of flipping camps every week for about 19 consecutive weeks for each armor set of each weight class from the back of my head. Incredibly boring but can be done without much hassle.

Getting all 21 WvW leggys ends up as roughly 80 weeks of doing that farm. Shouldn't be to hard for the average GW2 player to achieve assuming they don't fall asleep while waiting.

[Jianyu.7065]

Happy to contribute polarizing and misunderstood content that inadvertently got some of you beyond charged up. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

4 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

I'm sure this has been discussed to Cantha and back, but on the pve hand you have something that requires a lot of effort and comes with much frustration. It's very lengthy and practically unnecessary in comparison to wvw reward tracks that give the same rewards with, basically, a small time commitment. You don't even have to be good at wvw. You can go there, cap a couple camps for a few hours and then a couple days pass by and you complete the reward track with zero issue - just 6-8 hours of your time capping camps in wvw. 

My question is why is this so lopsided. The pve route requires much skill and patience and knowledge, and gameplay over the course of several pve quests and achievement tracks. Where the wvw route requires very little skill, minimum patience and practically no knowledge of how wvw works, and you only have to enter the maps - you only have to figure out how to cap the closest camps; which can be done solo.

i don't think it has been discussed as its not recognised as an issue by anyone.  If i go 1v1 against a single half decent roamer in wvw i need a lot of skill and knowledge.  In PVE I can destroy champs and packs of enemies together in 1 fight and i'm practically unkillable.  Ive also got 28k achievements points, the vast majority is pve and yet i spend more time pvping in wvw and pvp.  go figure.

Edited July 7, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Sobx.1758]

The differences in reward systems between the gamemodes most probably come from those gamemodes inherent nature. More specifically: in pve the devs can balance content however they want and it will be rather consistent, at points getting easier than intended due to the number of players cooperating to achieve the same goal. In competitive modes -like wvw- the devs can't balance the opponents because the opponents are other players. That's why in pve you "need to complete this and that to get the reward", while in wvw you just have a reward track.

4 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

The pve route requires much skill and patience and knowledge

I also can't say I agree those achievements somehow require much skill, pateince and knowledge. If there are more demanding achievements, they're few and far inbetween of the overall achievements pool.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

17 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

I'm sure this has been discussed to Cantha and back, but on the pve hand you have something that requires a lot of effort and comes with much frustration. It's very lengthy and practically unnecessary in comparison to wvw reward tracks that give the same rewards with, basically, a small time commitment. You don't even have to be good at wvw. You can go there, cap a couple camps for a few hours and then a couple days pass by and you complete the reward track with zero issue - just 6-8 hours of your time capping camps in wvw. 

My question is why is this so lopsided. The pve route requires much skill and patience and knowledge, and gameplay over the course of several pve quests and achievement tracks. Where the wvw route requires very little skill, minimum patience and practically no knowledge of how wvw works, and you only have to enter the maps - you only have to figure out how to cap the closest camps; which can be done solo.

This checks out.

About 20 hours of doing WvW a week by yourself you get max tickets. in about a month and change you can make a legendary armor piece with those tickets and passive materials.

In PvE by yourself you can earn as much gold as you want and can never acquire legendary armor.

 

It makes sense why PvE (without raids) is finally getting legendary armor.

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/7/2023 at 7:06 PM, Jianyu.7065 said:

Something like the pve achievement track for the Corsair armor skins vs wvw reward track for the same item. 

You are right. In this specific case(s) Reward track is easier. It is not the rule. Just a scaling issue. You can not give halve a skin on a reward track. It is a little unfair, but no the end of the world. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138