Numbers About Quickness Unplayed.... Again

[Hellion.2360]

Yo,

Here are some numbers:

running full diviner's gear gives you 78.19% boon duration (BD for short) assuming you don't run any concentration sigils/runes and nature magic.

Let Loose gives you 9sec of quickness assuming (again) you got the above gear. Weapon Swap is 10sec CD... You can see the problem right now, but there is more...

Let's say you bring 10% BD sigil, which gives you 88.19% BD which is 9.5sec quickness. Now I will munch down some Peppermint Oil utility that will bring me to 92.06% BD which is STILL 9.5sec of quickness...

Ok ok fine, let's get more conc food, 100 flat conc to be exact. This will bring us to a whopping 98.73% BD which is the glorious 10sec quickness! We did it! /s

(I'm not taking into consideration the horrible dps loss and crit chances you lose from doing this weird 98% BD)

 

Jokes aside, please tell me it's not intended. you are making us run Rune of the Warrior LOL.

 

 

ps.

here is a meme build you can run with only 8sec quickness bc rune of the warrior gives you 8sec weapon swap CD and that translates to a looot of conc gear you can swap to be crit capped. (no idea the dps on this build but at least it's crit capped or like 99% crit)

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAweJllyUZbsL2JO0K5xvREG-zRRYbhubAO6Ok4LjIqq0TBRnGKMuBA-e

Edited July 18, 2023 by Hellion.2360
added weird build that can give 100% quickness bc why not

[Levetty.1279]

You can ambush twice every rotation with Let Loose.

[Hellion.2360]

So the 15sec internal CD isnt connected to the weapon swap of Let Loose... so each 15sec is "normal" you should get Unleashed Ambush proc forcing u to unleashed the pet->yourself again. What a horrible design that isn't communicated well in any tooltip.

 

thanks for pointing it out! @Levetty.1279

 

so if i understand that correctly it should go kinda like that:

pet UL -> player UL -> ambush -> weapon swap -> ambush -> weapon swap -> ambush -> UL pet -> UL player -> ambush -> weapon swap -> ambush

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Hellion.2360

[Mauti.3520]

First drafts show

~34k dps on a Quickness Untamed played for maximum dps with like ~30%+ BD and Skirm/MM/Untamed Traitlines.
Maybe 40%+ IF you wanna get comfy.
Quickness can be a BIT tight after the opener but gets and remains better after every loop.

Storm Spirit (Fury) being almost as good as Spores/Trap now makes it a free Fury whenever you don't wanna bring HoT Tiger/need Fury.
It doesn't pet swap and is free to bring Pet F2's for utility or extra boons like Aegis, Prot Uptime, Might Uptime, Fury.
For a minor dps loss you can bring 8 Stacks of Might on Sun Spirit or extra on demand Aegis + additional Prot with Stone Spirit. Or even a cleanse + some Resistance and Resolution on Frost Spirit.
Healskill can be Healing Spring or Spirit for cleanse or aoe heal and some Vigor, while the Elite Skill (Big Cleanse+Rez/Big self Greed/Entangle) is completely free to use.

To go a bit more ham on boons you trade the sheer dps of Marksmanship versus the boons of Nature Magic. Since Untamed plays with a pet, the extra % Modifier per Boon and access to passive boon share with pet should keep the dps loss manageable. But it is noticeable which is a fair trade-off in my opinion.

I can confirm you that the gameplay is pretty smooth and fun (in my eyes) now that they changed how Let Loose works and Quickness Untamed looks like a very promising and fun build.
 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Mauti.3520

[Butater.6742]

I can attest that Quickness Untamed is stronk now.

[Invecta.5321]

Can someone give me a build + guide for the quickness untamed?

Want to get into it but there are 0 guides out there.

[Mauti.3520]

7 hours ago, Invecta.5321 said:

Can someone give me a build + guide for the quickness untamed?

Want to get into it but there are 0 guides out there.

Not really since Quickness Untamed is still heavily WIP. It basically exists since 24hours only.
This vid is not made by me but by Alex! - They shared it freely on the SC Discord. You might want to use it as a starting point if you want to experiment on your own, but I wouldnt recommend getting all geared up yet if you don't have too much legendary stuff to freely mix and match. It's likely to change or has already changed.
 

 

Edit: Also OP might adress their highly misleading title and opening post. Or we open a new and constructive post about Quickness Untamed alltogether.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Mauti.3520

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:58 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

You can ambush twice every rotation with Let Loose.

You can only ambush twice the first rotation then there's only one ambush each time after that right? At least just by using the Weapon Swap to reset.

 

Or is that still by swapping in and out of Unleash?

[Levetty.1279]

41 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Or is that still by swapping in and out of Unleash?

Yes?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Mauti.3520 said:

 

 

An all-melee ranger build? No way...I remember at least one person on here telling me that wasn't feasible or possible at all 😂.

Really though it's still too mechanically complex for only 34k DPS when you can just roll a soulbeast and push near/over 40k doing half the work. 

Quickness Untamed seems like something that would benefit competitive Untamed a lot more, but it mysteriously is missing from Let Loose there...

[CoffeePlease.3082]

24 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Really though it's still too mechanically complex for only 34k DPS when you can just roll a soulbeast and push near/over 40k doing half the work. 

Well it is a quickness dps, it's not supposed to be competing with a pure dps bench.

I never touched untamed before this morning, but after piecing together a build basing it off the power untamed build and adding some BD (which basically mirrored the build in that video, sans a couple gear pieces I didn't think to add), it didn't feel overly complex. The only tricky part was tracking when Unleashed Power becomes available, otherwise you basically just mash most of your buttons while ranger unleashed, saving weapon swap for when Unleashed Power is back up. 

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

You can only ambush twice the first rotation then there's only one ambush each time after that right? At least just by using the Weapon Swap to reset.

 

Or is that still by swapping in and out of Unleash?

If I understand your question correctly, you get two Unleashed Ambushes with the Let Loose trait because once you proc the ambush the first time you just weapon swap and another ambush is immediately available. Not need to re-toggle Unleash, you just stay in Ranger Unleash and it's there waiting for you.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

31 minutes ago, CoffeePlease.3082 said:

If I understand your question correctly, you get two Unleashed Ambushes with the Let Loose trait because once you proc the ambush the first time you just weapon swap and another ambush is immediately available. Not need to re-toggle Unleash, you just stay in Ranger Unleash and it's there waiting for you.

Yep, this is how it works. You hammer ambush, 4, 2, swap to sword/axe, and then you swap off CD for Let Loose procs.

 

You keep an eye on your swap cooldown for the ambush (can swap out of unleash ranger in preparation). You should get 2 sword ambushes and 2 hammer ambushes per loop (1 on entry, 1 on exit for each set).

 

As mentioned above the 30% BD MM/Skirm/Untamed build works perfectly fine.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

25 minutes ago, CoffeePlease.3082 said:

Well it is a quickness dps, it's not supposed to be competing with a pure dps bench.

True, I more hate that quickness is tied to the mechanic at all and literally only because they want to slap a 100% boon uptime build on every spec. 

For me, I'd rather stick to the 'purity of purpose' (anyone remember that one?!) and go pure DPS with soulbeast as it mechanically makes sense to me (i.e. low self HP / defense + burst windows).

2 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

You can only ambush twice the first rotation then there's only one ambush each time after that right? At least just by using the Weapon Swap to reset.

 

Or is that still by swapping in and out of Unleash?

 

28 minutes ago, CoffeePlease.3082 said:

If I understand your question correctly, you get two Unleashed Ambushes with the Let Loose trait because once you proc the ambush the first time you just weapon swap and another ambush is immediately available. Not need to re-toggle Unleash, you just stay in Ranger Unleash and it's there waiting for you.

It looks like the video is unleashing twice per cycle / rotation; do initial ambush via unleash toggle, end up back in ranger unleashed and wait 9s, unleash toggle again for another ambush, then immediately weapon swap to start the next rotation.  

That way you always know when your ambush is available as its directly tied to your weapon swap CD.  The only time this gets muddy is if a mechanic doesn't allow you to perma-stack on the boss. 

[CoffeePlease.3082]

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It looks like the video is unleashing twice per cycle / rotation; do initial ambush via unleash toggle, end up back in ranger unleashed and wait 9s, unleash toggle again for another ambush, then immediately weapon swap to start the next rotation.  

That way you always know when your ambush is available as its directly tied to your weapon swap CD.  The only time this gets muddy is if a mechanic doesn't allow you to perma-stack on the boss. 

Yup that is what I meant. Maybe I worded it wrong, or misunderstood the question.

My only issue so far aside from that has been resetting my brain when I have to deal with a mechanic, and the pet unleash. In the video they seem to be able to F1, F2, and F3 immediately and all at once and then immediately ranger unleash, and my old hands aren't THAT fast and sometimes when trying I end up mistakenly swapping my pet lol 

[Mauti.3520]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

An all-melee ranger build? No way...I remember at least one person on here telling me that wasn't feasible or possible at all 😂.

Really though it's still too mechanically complex for only 34k DPS when you can just roll a soulbeast and push near/over 40k doing half the work. 

Quickness Untamed seems like something that would benefit competitive Untamed a lot more, but it mysteriously is missing from Let Loose there...

Yes currently Ranger in PvE is more melee than ever. slb dagger and Untamed Hammer going core will even add to that.

Like others I though wonder why you compared a Quickness DPS to a DPS. But then you where already asked.
To broaden the picture:
DPS Untamed ~40k and DPS Soulbeast ~40k+ are pretty much interchangeable rn with some slight different strengths and dos and donts.
Also both are really easy to play and a good pick in many situations with: Slb able to Stance Share Dolyak or Moa for it's group while Untamed sports constant boon strips, free Aegis on demand and a rez/entangle

Compared to that Let Loose is a bit more demanding, that's right.

I personally wouldn't say it's to mechanically complex: It's basically press F skills ~every 9 with F5 being the first and last, Ambush, Swap and Ambush. The rest is pretty standard in "Push stuff on cooldown but don't interrupt auto attack chain for it."
If one gets confused or out of sync, there never really is a screw up moment as the next ambush and swap is never that far away and able to get back into maintaining quickness 100% from then on just fine.

The only annyoing hoop the build imo has to jump through still is to cancel Hammer Ambush in Hammer loop immediately, which is sad because Ambushes should be really good.
But sadly, the long casting time of Hammer Ambush doesn't add much dps to the build while either increasing the Ambush Cooldown. Eats too much into Quickness Uptime that you would need to counter with additional boon duration gear that in turn would net you less dps than simply running lower values and canceling it.

Personally though I really like this build for PvE.
Imho it's one of the better retrofittings of Quick/Alac into a build compared to quite some others.
And a radius of 480 for Quickness Application is really convenient.

It feels very nice to play with Ambushes as focus point of the rotation and it is pretty unique compared to any other ranger build. In fact it gives me a bit "Staff Mirage that isn't limited to Staff" vibes. When the addon releases and we get our hands on Soulbeast Dagger even Condi Quickness is on the horizon. Especially should they ever change the Shortbow Ambush which is really bad.

I think Ambushes might need more work than the Build or Trait itself. They are not really consistently designed and feel pretty random at what they do, how they do it and how useful they are in the end. Nonetheless I like them.
 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Mauti.3520

[Levetty.1279]

5 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Yep, this is how it works. You hammer ambush, 4, 2, swap to sword/axe, and then you swap off CD for Let Loose procs.

You don't use Hammer 5?

[CoffeePlease.3082]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You don't use Hammer 5?

From what I see, if you are going from your Hammer -> Sword ambush no, but you can once you ambush return from Sword -> Hammer. It looks like you only fit in 2 abilities without potentially losing the ambush proc (maybe), or perhaps it desyncs something, the after cast on Hammer 5 might lock you for too long, etc. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

22 hours ago, CoffeePlease.3082 said:

Well it is a quickness dps, it's not supposed to be competing with a pure dps bench.

I never touched untamed before this morning, but after piecing together a build basing it off the power untamed build and adding some BD (which basically mirrored the build in that video, sans a couple gear pieces I didn't think to add), it didn't feel overly complex. The only tricky part was tracking when Unleashed Power becomes available, otherwise you basically just mash most of your buttons while ranger unleashed, saving weapon swap for when Unleashed Power is back up. 

If I understand your question correctly, you get two Unleashed Ambushes with the Let Loose trait because once you proc the ambush the first time you just weapon swap and another ambush is immediately available. Not need to re-toggle Unleash, you just stay in Ranger Unleash and it's there waiting for you.

Yes. When initiating combat you can Unleash to get an Ambush then Weapon Swap to get a second ambush within 1 second. But from then on you'll only be able to Weapon Swap every 10 seconds.

But is there a Cooldown keeping you from jumping in and out of Unleash between weapon swaps to add more Ambushes in?

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Yes. When initiating combat you can Unleash to get an Ambush then Weapon Swap to get a second ambush within 1 second. But from then on you'll only be able to Weapon Swap every 10 seconds.

But is there a Cooldown keeping you from jumping in and out of Unleash between weapon swaps to add more Ambushes in?

They reduced the ambush cd to 9 s in PvE- so whenever weapon swap is ready you can leash and unleash to ambush, then swap and ambush again. Let loose gives you 2 ambush skills every ~ 10 s, which makes it very easy to keep up quickness.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Mell.4873]

On 7/20/2023 at 1:00 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

You can only ambush twice the first rotation then there's only one ambush each time after that right? At least just by using the Weapon Swap to reset.

 

Or is that still by swapping in and out of Unleash?

On 7/20/2023 at 1:42 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

Yes?

Yes, 2x Ambush every 9 seconds. 

[Mell.4873]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:09 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

An all-melee ranger build? No way...I remember at least one person on here telling me that wasn't feasible or possible at all 😂.

Really though it's still too mechanically complex for only 34k DPS when you can just roll a soulbeast and push near/over 40k doing half the work. 

Quickness Untamed seems like something that would benefit competitive Untamed a lot more, but it mysteriously is missing from Let Loose there...

You can very easily swap this to Hammer/sword + Longbow without much DPS loss.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

You can very easily swap this to Hammer/sword + Longbow without much DPS loss.

Still a DPS loss though; I don't do a ton of fractals / strikes but it seems most don't use LB there unless mechanics require it.  Raids I don't think you use LB at all as mostly camp a single weapon set?

[Mell.4873]

57 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Still a DPS loss though; I don't do a ton of fractals / strikes but it seems most don't use LB there unless mechanics require it.  Raids I don't think you use LB at all as mostly camp a single weapon set?

The main reason it is a DPS loss is if you are providing Quickness then you are forced to swap to Longbow. A Soulbeast isn't forced to swap weapons so Longbow is not a DPS loss. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The main reason it is a DPS loss is if you are providing Quickness then you are forced to swap to Longbow. A Soulbeast isn't forced to swap weapons so Longbow is not a DPS loss. 

Of course longbow isn't a DPS loss if you don't swap to it? 🤨 No one is camping Longbow for DPS; from everything I've seen you will be camping Sw/Axe--used to be Axe/Axe prior to the sword changes.

You have classes that are meta to camp ranged like Virt and Mech--Ranger isn't one of these.  

Anway, my original point was more to those confused that 'Ranger' doesn't mean ranged, and anet has never balanced it that way.  The highest damaging builds have always been melee or near melee thanks to whirling defense hitting like a truck and being mandatory.  

[Mell.4873]

38 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course longbow isn't a DPS loss if you don't swap to it? 🤨 No one is camping Longbow for DPS; from everything I've seen you will be camping Sw/Axe--used to be Axe/Axe prior to the sword changes.

You have classes that are meta to camp ranged like Virt and Mech--Ranger isn't one of these.  

Anway, my original point was more to those confused that 'Ranger' doesn't mean ranged, and anet has never balanced it that way.  The highest damaging builds have always been melee or near melee thanks to whirling defense hitting like a truck and being mandatory.  

Most of the Conditions builds use full ranged. Axe/Torch + Shortbow so camping ranged is possible on Ranger just not for Power.