vindicator an idea

[arazoth.7290]

I will sum up some changes how I have been thinking it might work and more aligned around alliance stance working together.

 

• Alliance tactics : 3 seconds cd for all game modes. It gives more flexibility and useability for using every ability. Energy cost can then be better looked at for each game mode because more switching between different abilties on demand. 

• Energy meld : 20 seconds cd + 10 energy cost.  It will no longer increase endurance. It will now grant 6 seconds acces for alliance stance to meld.

=>

° When you're in red side of archemorus, you will now have 6 seconds the capability to share the boon you have in it as it were on yourself.

° When you're in blue side of saint viktor, you will now have 6 seconds the capability for your support abilities to also output conditions on enemies. These conditions are the direct opposite of the boons you grant.

 

Traits which need rework: 

° Redemptor's Sermon: no idea what(you may fill in).

° Reaver's Curse: no idea what, could be damage related (you may fill in).

° Angsiyan's Trust: Activating by switching legends/alliance stance should stay the same. But replace the endurance effect by Song of Arboreum effect (vigor duration according to pve,pvp,WvW is different).

° Song of Arboreum: no idea, could be healing related (you may fill in).

 

The 2nd row major traitlines which are endurance related, only need 1 endurance related. 

 

 

Important reasons why I am suggesting this!!! => people wanted more relation between legend and also certain boons more available. But for example quickness shouldn't be given the easy way by pressing 1 button such as dodge... or spamming whole the time urn... that isn't dynamic gameplay but boring...

Edited July 22, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[arazoth.7290]

I have been thinking about this a while and said something simular in the past. But this is my final one

[Octavice.5019]

Viktor needs some work...

Urn - I'd love for it to extend what it's drop effects are. So based on your current health, your urn would pulse boons based on your current HP threshold at a lower duration (kind of like Specter shroud and its alac trait) instead of only granting a short boon on drop (feels bad). If not, Increase the energy pip cost to discourage holding urn forever or increase the damage the urn deals to the user to gain the threshold bonuses/boons faster instead.

Redemptor's Sermon- Change so it procs a small aoe heal every time you take damage on a low 1 or 2s CD, can still keep condition removal when @ 50%.

Amnesty of Shing Jea trait - currently makes all your skills grant regen as Kurzick, but Tree Song and  Battle Dance already provide regen and the other traits arent worth picking up. So either change what the trait gives, or possibly change Treesong to grant Protection (so you can save  your stunbreak) or flip conditions instead , and Battle Dance to provide swiftness instead of regen.

Empire Divided- The whole under 50% for better healing feels bad since it takes a while to dip below via Urn, or encourages you to run into damage mechanics on purpose just for +healing.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Octavice.5019

[Anonynja.3172]

I agree. The alliance stances don't talk to each other, and they don't synergize much with the core traitlines. OP offers interesting ideas. I'll add my rework proposal here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Anonynja/Vindicator_Rework

[jokebox.9803]

Some good ideas.
But sometimes, im thinking that if Anet try to change the vindicator, it will be worse...

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:41 PM, Anonynja.3172 said:

I agree. The alliance stances don't talk to each other, and they don't synergize much with the core traitlines. OP offers interesting ideas. I'll add my rework proposal here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Anonynja/Vindicator_Rework

Looking at your suggestions, I am a bit baffled at what you are trying to make here. You take away some of our stronger utility to make a sub par healer it looks like. One of the things I actually enjoy about being a vindicator is I can swap on the fly and heal allies. It's amazing how quickly you can bring people up spamming the urn with selfless spirit and an on demand protection when using awakening. Grant it we need more for St. Viktor of zu Heltzer, but what you're proposing with this just basically removes all utility just to force vindicator into alac provider.

On top of that I don't see any aegis protection, to cover the fact you are taking away a lot of vindicator utility there. You've removed out ability to generate stamina on demand two ways thus downgrading our leap attack further, which is a source of healing we can do when specced for it, and frankly, you've tanked the entire specs DPS. This hybrid you are proposing just has nothing going for it.

If anywhere we should be providing alternative attacks its in our weapons based on legends we use through out trait lines. I agree the Alliance needs some work, but this is honestly not it.

[arazoth.7290]

59 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Looking at your suggestions, I am a bit baffled at what you are trying to make here. You take away some of our stronger utility to make a sub par healer it looks like. One of the things I actually enjoy about being a vindicator is I can swap on the fly and heal allies. It's amazing how quickly you can bring people up spamming the urn with selfless spirit and an on demand protection when using awakening. Grant it we need more for St. Viktor of zu Heltzer, but what you're proposing with this just basically removes all utility just to force vindicator into alac provider.

On top of that I don't see any aegis protection, to cover the fact you are taking away a lot of vindicator utility there. You've removed out ability to generate stamina on demand two ways thus downgrading our leap attack further, which is a source of healing we can do when specced for it, and frankly, you've tanked the entire specs DPS. This hybrid you are proposing just has nothing going for it.

If anywhere we should be providing alternative attacks its in our weapons based on legends we use through out trait lines. I agree the Alliance needs some work, but this is honestly not it.

What about mine, the OP for the title of this thread?

[Shao.7236]

Still think Vindicator should play with manual skill flips on demand rather than forceful rows.

F2 and F3 to be hard resets for either Arch or Viktor and give boons when activated so pressing it while on the full row aren't useless.

And by manual flips on demand I mean having to press the skill again to activate the flip so that skills can be mixed, not touching it again would simply refresh the last skill used.

That way everyone get what they want from the initial release.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

 

20 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

What about mine, the OP for the title of this thread?

Alliance Tactics is already 3 second swap time, so not sure on this part.

I don't like your energy meld you're proposing. Being able to get more endurance is a pivotal point of Vindicator. Part of our DPS and/or healing is leaping regularly. This combine thing confuses me to what you are suggesting it does. Boon corruption can also be quite scary broken. I don't see them doing that since for instance stability corrupts into fear, and that can instantly turn into an IWIN scenario, with the right timing and short CD on Awakening or Reaver's Rage.

There's nothing really wrong with Redemptions Sermon. Since vindicator is a front line fighter and if you go healer you are tanking more often than not, being hit healing and cleansing allies is actually quite good.

Reaver's Curse is fine too. This is great for mass open world fighting and especially in World v World. Endurance is pivotal to the vindicator. Our leaps are a cornerstone of the class they are there for both healing and damage. Not to be used to dodge though that is a perk.

Song of Arboreum is fine too. Endurance is again a keystone of the class. Vigor gives us endurance regeneration and this trait increases the effectiveness of that by 25% on top of that. This doesn't need to be changed, and we give vigor to allies to which helps them for dodge mechanics.

I am not sure on your changes. I am baffled by some of them all of them are for situations based on the playstyle and events you are taking on. If you are supporting, you want song, if you are just DPS in open world content you want Reaver's. Angsiyan's Trust needs some re-work that I can agree with but a lot of suggestions I can't get behind if I were to be honest.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

3 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Still think Vindicator should play with manual skill flips on demand rather than forceful rows.

F2 and F3 to be hard resets for either Arch or Viktor and give boons when activated so pressing it while on the full row aren't useless.

And by manual flips on demand I mean having to press the skill again to activate the flip so that skills can be mixed, not touching it again would simply refresh the last skill used.

That way everyone get what they want from the initial release.

Not sure with switch tactics be 3 seconds now it's not exactly a hard thing to flip back and forth. St. Viktor of zu Heltzer needs a bit more as a support base though for those who want to be support but he is a powerful heal set up. We just lack a weapon, right now, that helps us heal support (since greatsword still stays offensive and staff while nice isn't as powerful as other support weapons).

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Alright, to tackle the problem with vindicator let's tackle it first from the weapon situation;

Offensively alliance is fine there's some tweaking it needs, but that's it, though the strength of rev is the ability to be power or condition based and greatsword takes that choice away sadly so it needs some changes there too. Support wise, it needs some work. St. Viktor of zu Heltzer is a very powerful heal spec when used well, but it lacks the ability to support it through the weapon choices given. Greatsword stays offensive, and staff while nice lacks any real utility for support/healing. We don't know what scepter will give us, so we are still waiting with baited breath of scepter/shield will be an answer but considering all things I am not being hopeful.

So what I would change is how Greatsword functions when you change ranks. While using Archemerous it retains the same skills and attacks, which suit it but when swapping to St. Viktor of zu Heltzer the actions of Greatsword should swap as well.

I am not good with names but I will give functions instead;

GS 1 - Three attack combo, final attack being plunging the sword into the ground doing a small AoE attack and healing up to 5 allies within 240, much akin to the staff to give it parity.

GS 2 - Does similar action but instead of applying vulnerability to those in a cone area, it instead heals allies within the cone range as with each enemy hit increasing the amount of healing by a percentage per enemy struck.

GS 3 - This action remains unchanged though in both stances it needs something such as defiance break. GS doesn't have any defiance break abilities on it.

GS 4 - Much like in its current state it's a block that charges up the more effects you block, but unlike it's true strike function, it charges up healing when blocked and can remove 1 to 3 conditions from allies when used as well.

GS 5 - This one is a bit tricky to think about. My proposal idea is this, which means in zu Heltzer the CD on this needs to be increased to. The vindicator stands as if channelling an action holding the sword in front of them, and it does a small damaging attacking that hits multiple times like Requiem for multiple hits. However for each hit it inflicts during the channel it heals allies for each hit. When the channel is finished, this effect provides Aegis to allies within the 360 range.

Anyways, this is my suggestion so far. There's definitely more that could be done to fix this no doubt about it. The trait lines are needing tweaking, for sure, some skills might need some tweaking but Vindicator is powerful it just lacks boon support. But the question becomes quickness or alacrity (though I would just rather see them deleted) at this point. And if we are gong to support then we need the ability too boon support but that requires more thinking than just simply nerf everything and give alacrity. I don't want vindicator to become another scourge.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[arazoth.7290]

41 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

 

Alliance Tactics is already 3 second swap time, so not sure on this part.

I don't like your energy meld you're proposing. Being able to get more endurance is a pivotal point of Vindicator. Part of our DPS and/or healing is leaping regularly. This combine thing confuses me to what you are suggesting it does. Boon corruption can also be quite scary broken. I don't see them doing that since for instance stability corrupts into fear, and that can instantly turn into an IWIN scenario, with the right timing and short CD on Awakening or Reaver's Rage.

There's nothing really wrong with Redemptions Sermon. Since vindicator is a front line fighter and if you go healer you are tanking more often than not, being hit healing and cleansing allies is actually quite good.

Reaver's Curse is fine too. This is great for mass open world fighting and especially in World v World. Endurance is pivotal to the vindicator. Our leaps are a cornerstone of the class they are there for both healing and damage. Not to be used to dodge though that is a perk.

Song of Arboreum is fine too. Endurance is again a keystone of the class. Vigor gives us endurance regeneration and this trait increases the effectiveness of that by 25% on top of that. This doesn't need to be changed, and we give vigor to allies to which helps them for dodge mechanics.

I am not sure on your changes. I am baffled by some of them all of them are for situations based on the playstyle and events you are taking on. If you are supporting, you want song, if you are just DPS in open world content you want Reaver's. Angsiyan's Trust needs some re-work that I can agree with but a lot of suggestions I can't get behind if I were to be honest.

Alliance tactics is only 3 seconds in pve content. I am talking about all contents, in WvW and pvp it still is 10 seconds which makes makes less use of flexibility.

I never said boon corruption, that would be bad indeed. I said that saint viktor blue side when energy meld is used would for example also put conditions on enemies and same times boons on allies. These conditions would be, if you put resistance/regeneration on allies, poison+chill on enemies. I see why you think it looked like boon corruption, but wasn't meant like that. These specific conditions also synchronise well with mallyx. => This way there is also more room for condition builds and in certain situations pve, pvp, WvW even power builds can benefit from these. 

For support builds it gives archemorus red side more use then only using blue side saint viktor. And the useability of swithing between blue and red side becomes more dynamic in combat too.

As support you would now be able to provide also fury, might, quickness, stability to allies and with right energy management and timing you can accomplish this.

The way the energy meld system I had in mind gives more useability for dps/support builds to the sides you use less or not atm. Depending on content (pve, pvp, WvW) it would get more use and more impact.

 

About endurance for dodge being important is true, but that's why Song of Arboreum current effect on Angsiyan's Trust traitline. The effects it gives would be the same but the boon activates now on switching legends/alliance tactics. It would get activated enough because of switching now more. The boon duration for endurance can be adjusted to be longer so that that the appliance is enough for holding enough boon uptime and not lacking there. Depending on pvp/WvW this can differ because of earlier complains about too much dodging obviously, but for for pve it should still give perma boon uptime.

The other traits could have a different according in that line to make up for it and relying less on it while still holding enough impact, but atm it is just the best traitline that gives most endurance for dodges and no real choice for different situations. 

Redemptions Sermon is little bland and even 30 seconds is long compared, not speaking about the pvp/WvW which is 90 seconds.

 

You might think that dodges are indeed important, but it shouldn't do everything. If you're worried about damage, that can be compensated by amount of damage overal in weapon abilities, alliance stance skill abbilties doing more damage and the new saint viktor conditions outputing during enery meld could be some having more increased condition stacks like more poison stacks for example for condi builds.

 

Uptime on endurance is important but using your skills/weapon skills should have a lot higher priority.

 

I hope it is more clear how used. Because I am thinking of constant dynamic use, it might be more abbilties pressing yes. But that should have been the case from first it was created since 50% more legendary stance skills were added for pressing by it so there should be more dynamic and less sitting in 1 part of the stance.

I didn't want to begin about the weapon part because that is again another topic and less related to alliance stance 

 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

Alliance tactics is only 3 seconds in pve content. I am talking about all contents, in WvW and pvp it still is 10 seconds which makes makes less use of flexibility.

I never said boon corruption, that would be bad indeed. I said that saint viktor blue side when energy meld is used would for example also put conditions on enemies and same times boons on allies. These conditions would be, if you put resistance/regeneration on allies, poison+chill on enemies. I see why you think it looked like boon corruption, but wasn't meant like that. These specific conditions also synchronise well with mallyx. => This way there is also more room for condition builds and in certain situations pve, pvp, WvW even power builds can benefit from these. 

For support builds it gives archemorus red side more use then only using blue side saint viktor. And the useability of swithing between blue and red side becomes more dynamic in combat too.

As support you would now be able to provide also fury, might, quickness, stability to allies and with right energy management and timing you can accomplish this.

The way the energy meld system I had in mind gives more useability for dps/support builds to the sides you use less or not atm. Depending on content (pve, pvp, WvW) it would get more use and more impact.

 

About endurance for dodge being important is true, but that's why Song of Arboreum current effect on Angsiyan's Trust traitline. The effects it gives would be the same but the boon activates now on switching legends/alliance tactics. It would get activated enough because of switching now more. The boon duration for endurance can be adjusted to be longer so that that the appliance is enough for holding enough boon uptime and not lacking there. Depending on pvp/WvW this can differ because of earlier complains about too much dodging obviously, but for for pve it should still give perma boon uptime.

The other traits could have a different according in that line to make up for it and relying less on it while still holding enough impact, but atm it is just the best traitline that gives most endurance for dodges and no real choice for different situations. 

Redemptions Sermon is little bland and even 30 seconds is long compared, not speaking about the pvp/WvW which is 90 seconds.

 

You might think that dodges are indeed important, but it shouldn't do everything. If you're worried about damage, that can be compensated by amount of damage overal in weapon abilities, alliance stance skill abbilties doing more damage and the new saint viktor conditions outputing during enery meld could be some having more increased condition stacks like more poison stacks for example for condi builds.

 

Uptime on endurance is important but using your skills/weapon skills should have a lot higher priority.

 

I hope it is more clear how used. Because I am thinking of constant dynamic use, it might be more abbilties pressing yes. But that should have been the case from first it was created since 50% more legendary stance skills were added for pressing by it so there should be more dynamic and less sitting in 1 part of the stance.

I didn't want to begin about the weapon part because that is again another topic and less related to alliance stance 

 

There has to be balance and being able to freely swap back and forth within PvP and WvW would be bad. As much as it sucks in ideas it would throw balance off a lot.

Your suggestion meld is essentially a corruption. I would spam awakening off CD just to fear and make vulnerable people around me while I get stability and protection. That's just broken.

Your suggestion of Arboreum is just a straight nerf there then.

And we aren't dodging. Leaps are core to the class they are part of our DPS and healing part of our rotations. People using leap as a dodge are doing it wrong. I laugh every time I see someone leaping as a move action because leap does not get the burst of speed that normal dodge does. That's what Nomad's Advance and Phantom's Onslaught are for.

Your suggestion is trying to cram an oversized square peg into a very small circular hole being straight honest. You are identifying the wrong things that are the problem with the class and not looking where we are weakest. We are not hurting as healers, we are hurting for boon support. We are not hurting for damage, again we are hurting for boon support. We need a way to apply those more regularly, and maybe quickness or alacrity. Given the nature of the Alliance, I would vote for quickness but given ANets idea of "fixing" things the last few patches (rip warrior, scourge and scrapper) I am not too keen on any suggestion they would have for fixing that since that would just tank what makes the spec fun.

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Not sure with switch tactics be 3 seconds now it's not exactly a hard thing to flip back and forth. St. Viktor of zu Heltzer needs a bit more as a support base though for those who want to be support but he is a powerful heal set up. We just lack a weapon, right now, that helps us heal support (since greatsword still stays offensive and staff while nice isn't as powerful as other support weapons).

Hammer is very good as a support weapon with Ventari. While CoR is not in a optimal state, every skills function as intended and do work very well.

If you're supporting CoR is the least of worries anyway. You want to maximize cleanses with AA on teammates chasing targets.

I don't think it's about being hard but rather combining alliances in all sort of possible ways mid fight.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Shao.7236

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

4 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Hammer is very good as a support weapon with Ventari. While CoR is not in a optimal state, every skills function as intended and do work very well.

If you're supporting CoR is the least of worries anyway.

I don't think it's about being hard but rather combining alliances in all sort of possible ways mid fight.

Hammer is not a good support. It's too slow and clunky, to the point you need to preempt with it more than able to use it straight away like a lot of support based weapons. If oyu mean it's Defiance Break then just use a staff at least you can do some healing instead of have an awkward shield. Of all the weapons that needs a rework this one needs it the most followed by Herald shield.

I am more interested in what scepter will provide us in the end. And as far as what we need we need boon support. It's something we provide little of as a vindicator when it comes to support. We have so few options for it and provide so little comparably. I mean let's not forget what a herald and renegade can do for boon support when people want to be boon support.

[arazoth.7290]

54 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

There has to be balance and being able to freely swap back and forth within PvP and WvW would be bad. As much as it sucks in ideas it would throw balance off a lot.

Your suggestion meld is essentially a corruption. I would spam awakening off CD just to fear and make vulnerable people around me while I get stability and protection. That's just broken.

Your suggestion of Arboreum is just a straight nerf there then.

And we aren't dodging. Leaps are core to the class they are part of our DPS and healing part of our rotations. People using leap as a dodge are doing it wrong. I laugh every time I see someone leaping as a move action because leap does not get the burst of speed that normal dodge does. That's what Nomad's Advance and Phantom's Onslaught are for.

Your suggestion is trying to cram an oversized square peg into a very small circular hole being straight honest. You are identifying the wrong things that are the problem with the class and not looking where we are weakest. We are not hurting as healers, we are hurting for boon support. We are not hurting for damage, again we are hurting for boon support. We need a way to apply those more regularly, and maybe quickness or alacrity. Given the nature of the Alliance, I would vote for quickness but given ANets idea of "fixing" things the last few patches (rip warrior, scourge and scrapper) I am not too keen on any suggestion they would have for fixing that since that would just tank what makes the spec fun.

not really, Because it gives more use to other abilties and you won't be able to press everything because energy management xill prevent that because of the cost too high to do it

And why you worried about 1 second fear on 20 seconds cd??? Fear is pretty balanced in general and can be even prevented by Stability or resistance. There are ccs which have longer duration on revenant. It isn't broken because it's 20 seconds cd znd can't be applied spammingly, there will be z lot other stuff to use that could have better use according to situation

The suggestion of song of arboreum isn't a nerf, since I said the boon duration needs to be looked at to still apply perma vigor for pve content.

And these changes would apply to boon support aswell, idk how you overlook this??? You will be able to apply many boons to allies which you couldn't before.

It may give a more complex rotation, but same time more more reward to gain the better you use the right tools according to the situation. It would give a wider toolkit for different situations and you got to choose the right one for the biggest gain, while discluding others. The better you would play it, the bigger the reward.

It wouldn't make pvp/WvW a lot more OP, only more options on 20 second cd for 6 seconds. This is a limited time to pull it off, not too big also to make it overpowered for using too much abilties empowered like almost permanent. You got to have the right in the middle

[Shao.7236]

21 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Hammer is not a good support. It's too slow and clunky, to the point you need to preempt with it more than able to use it straight away like a lot of support based weapons. If oyu mean it's Defiance Break then just use a staff at least you can do some healing instead of have an awkward shield. Of all the weapons that needs a rework this one needs it the most followed by Herald shield.

I am more interested in what scepter will provide us in the end. And as far as what we need we need boon support. It's something we provide little of as a vindicator when it comes to support. We have so few options for it and provide so little comparably. I mean let's not forget what a herald and renegade can do for boon support when people want to be boon support.

I'm sorry but like many you don't understand the weapon.

Hammer literally allows you to cleanse every AA that hits in a 240 radius on Ventari for as long you have energy, there's nothing like that in the game.

It has the ability to redirect damage, falsify your position, bait traps and cancel hard CC's every 12 seconds

Highest projectile hate up time in the game not counting all the other utility and whether you like it or not, the CC is a entire node worth that not everyone can evade, all of that is in a low energy and low CD package.

Hammer is by default the best option for Ventari because it has the most powerful synergy along the way of utility being extremely versatile.

[Anonynja.3172]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:44 AM, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Looking at your suggestions, I am a bit baffled at what you are trying to make here. You take away some of our stronger utility to make a sub par healer it looks like. One of the things I actually enjoy about being a vindicator is I can swap on the fly and heal allies. It's amazing how quickly you can bring people up spamming the urn with selfless spirit and an on demand protection when using awakening. Grant it we need more for St. Viktor of zu Heltzer, but what you're proposing with this just basically removes all utility just to force vindicator into alac provider.

On top of that I don't see any aegis protection, to cover the fact you are taking away a lot of vindicator utility there. You've removed out ability to generate stamina on demand two ways thus downgrading our leap attack further, which is a source of healing we can do when specced for it, and frankly, you've tanked the entire specs DPS. This hybrid you are proposing just has nothing going for it.

If anywhere we should be providing alternative attacks its in our weapons based on legends we use through out trait lines. I agree the Alliance needs some work, but this is honestly not it.

Removed utility? I added a new Alliance Tactics upkeep skill that can proc boons on dodge including alacrity

Don't see any aegis? Aegis isn't on Vindi in the first place and I'm not in support of every spec being able to proc every boon, many players are complaining about homogenization of the specs

Removed our ability to generate stamina? I baked one stamina generation trait into the traitline so you can take TWO endurance regen traits alongside Energy Meld

Tanked the entire specs DPS? I added a Bladesworn-like burst ability with a much more interactive energy-upkeep Spear elite

 

Perhaps I didn't write things clearly enough. Your responses simply don't reflect what I wrote in that proposal.

 

[Frayze.4620]

On 7/25/2023 at 6:50 PM, Shao.7236 said:

I'm sorry but like many you don't understand the weapon.

Hammer literally allows you to cleanse every AA that hits in a 240 radius on Ventari for as long you have energy, there's nothing like that in the game.

It has the ability to redirect damage, falsify your position, bait traps and cancel hard CC's every 12 seconds

Highest projectile hate up time in the game not counting all the other utility and whether you like it or not, the CC is a entire node worth that not everyone can evade, all of that is in a low energy and low CD package.

Hammer is by default the best option for Ventari because it has the most powerful synergy along the way of utility being extremely versatile.

Would you mind explaining your second point as I’m not sure I see what you mean here? 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:58 AM, Frayze.4620 said:

Would you mind explaining your second point as I’m not sure I see what you mean here? 

 I think Shao talks about Ventari dome since its a light fight anything that shoots trough it its a self condi cleanse 

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 I think Shao talks about Ventari dome since its a light fight anything that shoots trough it its a self condi cleanse 

Yes, if you use AA with light AoE, any targets you will hit will cleanse you/teammates around said target in a 240 radius, the piercing factor multiplies it too so if you hit two targets next to each other, that's 2 conditions removed.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Shao.7236