arcDPS - allowed?

[Janitsu.6284]

15 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

How can you know if people aren't using arcdps? I almost never see strangers mention arcdps. Most people don't even talk at all.

I don't usually get kicked from parties, so it's pretty difficult for me to comprehend especially if you are getting kicked regularly. People usually get booted when the fight fails usually because they botched mechanics and don't communicate, or just don't seem to know what they're doing. Being kicked for low dps is a pretty rare reason unless it is in conjunction with a wipe since most people don't care if the run succeeds.

If you do extremely  low dps, that means you have trouble executing your build and controlling your character. It is highly likely that your execution of the actual fights is far from ideal.

In other words, it is entirely possible in some fights you were getting carried so even if they were using a meter, they didn't want to bother replacing you. But in other fights they may not have been good to carry and you played especially bad. They needed more than a warm body and thus you were kicked.

Let's put it this way-- when I do see people mentioning the meter in a serious fashion, it's usually an outlier-- extremely good or extremely bad. So if you get kicked from 1 or 2 parties then you might just have some psycho elitists. If you get kicked from a lot of parties, then you're probably behind the curve.  DPS are a dime a dozen; that's just how it is unfortunately.

Your personal anecdotal evidence is agianst my empirical data... I think that says enough!!

[Linken.6345]

36 minutes ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Your personal anecdotal evidence is agianst my personal anecdotal evidence... I think that says enough!!

Fixed it for you.

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Your personal anecdotal evidence is agianst my empirical data... I think that says enough!!

Right at the start of the post you've quoted, you were asked how you can know who has and doesn't have the addon. The response(?) you provided here doesn't really say anything, let alone "enough".

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Your personal anecdotal evidence is agianst my empirical data... I think that says enough!!

I regret to inform you that your randomized usage of terms with marginally greater obscurity to the average layperson does not intimidate me. It is probably less efficient than your damage per interval.

I will ask you to define what empirical means, as for your methodology of determining how an individual player lacks the presence of Arcdps. Are you somehow able to gain access to their computer? Does everyone that participates in content with you consent to this arrangement? Because that would violate all kinds of terms and laws.

I also call into doubt the sole control factor of you being removed from a party as you would have no knowledge of what happens to the party after you were removed.

Oh and "Trust me bro" is not a scientifically approved method.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Janitsu.6284]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:23 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Fixed it for you.

You are probably one of the people who strictly go against the ToS and EULA of ARCdps... I will provide qoute:

how to use
 don't be a kitten.

On 8/4/2023 at 9:29 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Right at the start of the post you've quoted, you were asked how you can know who has and doesn't have the addon. The response(?) you provided here doesn't really say anything, let alone "enough".

It's very easily to tell. If you don't know how maybe you aren't playing too often without ARCdps too notice.

On 8/4/2023 at 10:17 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I regret to inform you that your randomized usage of terms with marginally greater obscurity to the average layperson does not intimidate me. It is probably less efficient than your damage per interval.

I will ask you to define what empirical means, as for your methodology of determining how an individual player lacks the presence of Arcdps. Are you somehow able to gain access to their computer? Does everyone that participates in content with you consent to this arrangement? Because that would violate all kinds of terms and laws.

I also call into doubt the sole control factor of you being removed from a party as you would have no knowledge of what happens to the party after you were removed.

Oh and "Trust me bro" is not a scientifically approved method.

 

You are bringing laws and terms into the discussion above. This is game only laws that are mattering are the ones in Tyria LOL!

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

It's very easily to tell. If you don't know how maybe you aren't playing too often without ARCdps too notice.

So this is all you have to say about it and then you come up with the "Your personal anecdotal evidence is agianst my empirical data... I think that says enough!!" response?
Well then, my empirical data shows you're wrong. If people are kicked from squads, it's vastly more often because they don't know what to do and not beacuse of dps.

Meanwhile the question "how you can know who has and doesn't have the addon?" remains unanswered, which just hints how... you don't know. Perhaps the biggest issue here was that the group didn't inform you why you were kicked, so you had to make up your own reason. And yes, I think people being kicked from groups deserve knowing why.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

This is what you said:

On 8/3/2023 at 12:47 PM, Janitsu.6284 said:

Explain why never kicked when no ARCdps in group then. Have proove of this as well.

And this was the question asked:

On 8/3/2023 at 8:49 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

How can you know if people aren't using arcdps? I almost never see strangers mention arcdps. Most people don't even talk at all.

 

You don't know when people use or don't use arcdps. You're making assumptions to fit whatever you want then to fit here. In this case "if I'm not kicked, it means noone runs arcdps", which is nothing more than a blind guess.

[Sirius.4510]

There are some ways you can tell for sure someone's using ArcDPS; one is that they tell you, and another is that they have the healing stats add-on installed and configured. That's a pretty dead giveaway. You can't tell that they're not using it, though. It is possible to use ArcDPS and not care about your DPS or anyone else's DPS, or just choose to stay silent on it.

I doubt that ArenaNet doing a policy change and saying "game's up, no more dps meters for anyone" is going to improve anything for anyone, though - both in the general case and in this specific case.

• On Keep Construct specifically, it's a pretty complicated battle and there are a lot of mechanics to screw up. Pulling fixated adds to the wrong places, cleave damage interfering with orb pushing, ignoring CC phases, getting repeatedly nuked by the pink AoEs, etc. If I were to bet on why someone's getting kicked from groups, it would be that they're repeatedly failing mechanics, not that their DPS is low (unless they were specifically told it was DPS, but groups rarely kick people for low DPS unless the squad is wiping, and one person's low DPS isn't going to cause a wipe). Because you don't need ArcDPS to see someone is failing mechanics, ArcDPS being deleted is not going to save them.
• In the general case, not knowing squad DPS, and more importantly, boon uptimes, isn't going to stop people getting booted from squads. What's going to happen is that nobody will know what's going on, failure rates will skyrocket, and people will start finding reasons to kick perceived low performers that may or may not even be true. They'll give more leeway to people they already know and trust, which will achieve the opposite effect from what we want: more gatekeeping in raids/strikes.

There are bad actors out there in the raid commander world, but taking away their data isn't going to stop them from being bad actors - it's just going to give them plausible deniability.

[ArchonWing.9480]

21 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

I can tell when they tell me I am not high of DPS for them... how else are they getting my DPS unless they use (illegal) logging activity tracker.

We can tell from this thread, from your own "empirical" data.

Multiple squads have reported you consistently having low dps.  Maybe they tell each other and you have a reputation. Thus if you are in my party, I or anyone else in this thread can kick you without needing arcdps. Though at this point it is not just because of the dps. You could do 100k dps and I would never want to play with you. Because DPS is pretty low on the list of things to kick people for.

Edited August 8, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Hesione.9412]

9 hours ago, Sirius.4510 said:

There are some ways you can tell for sure someone's using ArcDPS; one is that they tell you, and another is that they have the healing stats add-on installed and configured.

Isn't that dramatically affected by whether the other heals also have that addon. It's why, in WvW, I only ever use it to see my healing.

[Janitsu.6284]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:23 PM, Sirius.4510 said:

There are some ways you can tell for sure someone's using ArcDPS; one is that they tell you, and another is that they have the healing stats add-on installed and configured. That's a pretty dead giveaway. You can't tell that they're not using it, though. It is possible to use ArcDPS and not care about your DPS or anyone else's DPS, or just choose to stay silent on it.

I doubt that ArenaNet doing a policy change and saying "game's up, no more dps meters for anyone" is going to improve anything for anyone, though - both in the general case and in this specific case.

• On Keep Construct specifically, it's a pretty complicated battle and there are a lot of mechanics to screw up. Pulling fixated adds to the wrong places, cleave damage interfering with orb pushing, ignoring CC phases, getting repeatedly nuked by the pink AoEs, etc. If I were to bet on why someone's getting kicked from groups, it would be that they're repeatedly failing mechanics, not that their DPS is low (unless they were specifically told it was DPS, but groups rarely kick people for low DPS unless the squad is wiping, and one person's low DPS isn't going to cause a wipe). Because you don't need ArcDPS to see someone is failing mechanics, ArcDPS being deleted is not going to save them.
• In the general case, not knowing squad DPS, and more importantly, boon uptimes, isn't going to stop people getting booted from squads. What's going to happen is that nobody will know what's going on, failure rates will skyrocket, and people will start finding reasons to kick perceived low performers that may or may not even be true. They'll give more leeway to people they already know and trust, which will achieve the opposite effect from what we want: more gatekeeping in raids/strikes.

There are bad actors out there in the raid commander world, but taking away their data isn't going to stop them from being bad actors - it's just going to give them plausible deniability.

Finally, some one gets that I can tell. Thanks you!

On 8/8/2023 at 9:01 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

We can tell from this thread, from your own "empirical" data.

Multiple squads have reported you consistently having low dps.  Maybe they tell each other and you have a reputation. Thus if you are in my party, I or anyone else in this thread can kick you without needing arcdps. Though at this point it is not just because of the dps. You could do 100k dps and I would never want to play with you. Because DPS is pretty low on the list of things to kick people for.

You are saying I am wanting to play with you then 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Hilarius!