Why Ranger and Warrior are jokes

[Enduronex.4865]

14 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The undodgeable CC ring takes like 2 seconds to land, telegraphing the whole time, then doesn't itself hit you for anything (so you can leave it with stab) You can dodge it if you don't let it hit you or stay outside of the falling Aoe.

If you get hit by it you deserve the true shot if you don't have a button to press to avoid the trueshot. And I don't even play DH, I'm just a big fan of "if you don't dodge this dumb huge telegraph you should probably die."

Except when you get tethered OUT of your dodge.

 

Even so, no single hit should do as much damage as the lowest tier health pool.  None.  *Per se*

Edited August 2, 2023 by chromodynamix.2495

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 minutes ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

Except when you get tethered OUT of your dodge.

 

stunbreak before you hit the barrier field. DH cant channel longbow 5 and yoink you at the same time. 💀

Quote

Even so, no single hit should do as much damage as the lowest tier health pool.  None.  *Per se*

Nah I think yall are spoiled and need to start getting oneshot by setups that take a year to land. If you see a dh put down traps or channel lb 5, and youre tethered, you'd better be waiting for the millisecond you get yoinked.  If you live you win that interaction. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah I think yall are spoiled and need to start getting oneshot by setups that take a year to land. If you see a dh put down traps or channel lb 5, and youre tethered, you'd better be waiting for the millisecond you get yoinked.  If you live you win that interaction. 

Definitely agree that people aren't punished heavily enough anymore because the game's gotten powercrept really hard in terms of sustain, cooldowns, overloaded skills, whatever, but I don't think having one shots works out that well in a team-based mode.

"If you get hit by this you die" doesn't work that well when there's potentially up to 5 different people to not get hit by at any given moment. I don't think it's very fun for either side of the interaction if someone has a touch of death that rarely lands.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Definitely agree that people aren't punished heavily enough anymore because the game's gotten powercrept really hard in terms of sustain, cooldowns, overloaded skills, whatever, but I don't think having one shots works out that well in a team-based mode.

"If you get hit by this you die" doesn't work that well when there's potentially up to 5 different people to not get hit by at any given moment. I don't think it's very fun for either side of the interaction if someone has a touch of death that rarely lands.

Consider the situation of an entire team being at the same point, and what that entails. The more people piled onto a point, the less reason you have to be there in the middle of it, and the more opportunities you have to interrupt the dragonhunter that has to spend a whole second or two channeling just the skill that sets up the true shot. He should be dead before the skill even lands, or you should be moving away from the point. The situation of "what if everyone in the game is on this point"  is just as rare as someone getting nuked for 14k that is aware the DH is there. 

Being aware of your positioning is the solution for situations where it may be hard to tell what is going on on the point, not nuking the damage of the guy that took absolutely no defense in order to hit you that hard. It is exactly that (that is, the state of not being aware of positioning, both in terms of the map and of skills that should be evaded) that should be punished. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

24 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The situation of "what if everyone in the game is on this point"  is just as rare as someone getting nuked for 14k that is aware the DH is there. 

Sure, but it starts applying the moment there's more than one person.
Just because it's not 5 doesn't mean that it doesn't also present poor gameplay the moment there's two.

There's skills that do a ton for a single button press, there's specs that have way more get out of jail free buttons than they should, and some that need damage brought back up after the Feb 2020 patch, but every time any mmo's created a one shot spec like Bladesworn or Destro in wow or whatever else, it's not particularly fun for anyone beyond a youtube montage full of airhorns and mountain dew.

There's a medium between instant down and walking away from everything scotfree in which someone can be punished heavily for their mistakes in skill usage/positioning/dodging.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Sure, but it starts applying the moment there's more than one person.
Just because it's not 5 doesn't mean that it doesn't also present poor gameplay the moment there's two.

If there's two people you should start considering your position. My argument doesn't change in that scenario. If you're fighting two people and one of them is a dragonhunter, there are a number of ways you can tackle that scenario that dont involve you getting hit by trueshot, especially if the DH is trying to take potshots from outside the point. 

[Flowki.7194]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:26 PM, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This ^^^^ poster right here is 100% a perfect example of why the devs should ignore these forums, reads first paragraph and all I see is bias against ranger mixed with highly exaggerated hyperbolic claims. The whole post translates to whaaaaaa I don't like rangers please nerf it in to ground whaaaaaaa.

Why would I be specifically bias against ranger? go over my post history and you will see a trend.. that is, I cannot stand low effort or low risk specs that have moderate/high reward. I didn't play condi cata when it was OP, becuase it was kitten, and I have respect for other peoples playing experiance. However, it seems the same cannot be said about the majority of the playerbase, who jump on, and defend any low skill floor or low effort spec. Its was scrapper at one point, condi cata the next, now SB, next who knows... same kitten different patch.

 

Start from the top, the highest effort specs currently in use. What are they?

 

Work your way down, where you will quickly see that high effort/high skill floor specs are a rarity in GW2. Soulbeast now joins the low effort/low skillfloor specs becuase its burst damage+target drops+stun+evade means the avg level soulbeast will not dodge once, and still wipe the floor with the average level anything else. The definition of low effort high reward. When the work around takes more skill than the aggressive act. Similar can be said about dragonhunter engagemetns. The area denial they achieve while you try to work around trap spam+target drops+harp, while also factoring in other classes CC and pulls. When there are too many low skill or low effort specs, and they all mix in the same groupfights, it becomes a toxic game. Gw2 is a toxic game.

 

It is pretty safe to suggest that at this point, all that is left in this playerbase are die hard gw2 fans, who are completely desensitised to how aweful this game is, as they are too busy defending their given spec like its their first born child. Then, the company release new content, which attracts new players, who are then subjected to the toxic pvp environment+kitten poor matchmkaing system, where most basically quit. 

 

So essentially.. enjoy farming newbs with your low effort/low risk builds, while convincing yourselves it takes skill.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why would I be specifically bias against ranger? go over my post history and you will see a trend.. that is, I cannot stand low effort or low risk specs that have moderate/high reward. I didn't play condi cata when it was OP, becuase it was kitten, and I have respect for other peoples playing experiance. However, it seems the same cannot be said about the majority of the playerbase, who jump on, and defend any low skill floor or low effort spec. Its was scrapper at one point, condi cata the next, now SB, next who knows... same kitten different patch.

 

Start from the top, the highest effort specs currently in use. What are they?

 

Work your way down, where you will quickly see that high effort/high skill floor specs are a rarity in GW2. Soulbeast now joins the low effort/low skillfloor specs becuase its burst damage+target drops+stun+evade means the avg level soulbeast will not dodge once, and still wipe the floor with the average level anything else. The definition of low effort high reward. When the work around takes more skill than the aggressive act. Similar can be said about dragonhunter engagemetns. The area denial they achieve while you try to work around trap spam+target drops+harp, while also factoring in other classes CC and pulls. When there are too many low skill or low effort specs, and they all mix in the same groupfights, it becomes a toxic game. Gw2 is a toxic game.

 

It is pretty safe to suggest that at this point, all that is left in this playerbase are die hard gw2 fans, who are completely desensitised to how aweful this game is, as they are too busy defending their given spec like its their first born child. Then, the company release new content, which attracts new players, who are then subjected to the toxic pvp environment+kitten poor matchmkaing system, where most basically quit. 

 

So essentially.. enjoy farming newbs with your low effort/low risk builds, while convincing yourselves it takes skill.

 

 

 

wow I can hear the tears in your eyes as you type this.

 

Crying about "low risk specs that have moderate/high reward" while playing an ele? funny stuff.

Your assessment of build strengths, while somewhat accurate, are very surface-level and implies an unwillingness to self-reflect on how your gameplay/decision-making may be lacking.

 

^Read this again. I have zero evidence of the quality of your gameplay, but your mindset in how you talk about certain classes signals to me (and many others) that you are not a competitor.

 

Again, I'm saying this NOT because of the strengths of Soulbeasts, Warriors, & DH's (they are all indeed strong/capable at their niches). It's specifically a) your reductive attitude towards these classes and b) your tendency to lay negative judgement on fundamental things people love about this small ded game (overlapping mechanics, unique playstyles, frustrating matchups, fast-paced decision-making around do-or-die situations, complex movement, etc)

 

Gw2 is definitely "toxic". There are a lot of things that will kill you that won't make sense/happened too fast/felt unfair/required godlike timing/etc. And that's specifically why we're here. Everything else is molasses in comparison.

All in all, this game doesn't sound like it's for you. Please play something else that meets your meeker expectations.

That, or you can join the pantheon of failed gw2 pvp competitors who camp this forum instead of logging on to practice the matchups they find difficult 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

wow I can hear the tears in your eyes as you type this.

 

Crying about "low risk specs that have moderate/high reward" while playing an ele? funny stuff.

Your assessment of build strengths, while somewhat accurate, are very surface-level and implies an unwillingness to self-reflect on how your gameplay/decision-making may be lacking.

 

^Read this again. I have zero evidence of the quality of your gameplay, but your mindset in how you talk about certain classes signals to me (and many others) that you are not a competitor.

 

Again, I'm saying this NOT because of the strengths of Soulbeasts, Warriors, & DH's (they are all indeed strong/capable at their niches). It's specifically a) your reductive attitude towards these classes and b) your tendency to lay negative judgement on fundamental things people love about this small ded game (overlapping mechanics, unique playstyles, frustrating matchups, fast-paced decision-making around do-or-die situations, complex movement, etc)

 

Gw2 is definitely "toxic". There are a lot of things that will kill you that won't make sense/happened too fast/felt unfair/required godlike timing/etc. And that's specifically why we're here. Everything else is molasses in comparison.

All in all, this game doesn't sound like it's for you. Please play something else that meets your meeker expectations.

That, or you can join the pantheon of failed gw2 pvp competitors who camp this forum instead of logging on to practice the matchups they find difficult 🤷‍♂️

 

I forgot to mention the rife level of projection within this playbase, thanks for the reminder. Also, ele had 1 easy spec, condi cata, which I never played. The rest of ele specs have a high skill floor, why let your bias hate at eles over performance (I also played off meta power cata) get in the way of this fact. More eles in the game is a good thing, since they have a higher skill floor than alot of specs, which means you can force MORE mistakes out of them. I want more of that, more complication across all specs, so that they have more room for error, and punishment for mistake. DD is suppose to be the ''razor edge'' spec, but we all know a good DD is nion unkillalbe, and is the lowest risk highest reward spec in the game, in terms of its ability to escape nion any situation and perma +1.. or just back cap all game drawing far more effort to counter.

 

You suggest there are things that can kill you quick, too quick, and I agree. At the same time, there are specs that can face tank damage one way or the other thanks to low effort mechanics; reap mode, virt mesmer, coregaurd, etc. Low skill floor works both ways in this game, easy damage or easy sustain, including target drops, which essentially act as crutches that allow platers to get away with things that a higher skill floor spec has to DODGE or ACTIVELY and conciously mitigate, or die. Scrapper plays like this, get the jump, stun, do faceroll burst (with 5 core buttons), put all of the dodging/mitigating pressure onto the recieving player..  and the scrapper doesn't have to worry about any dodging or mitigation unless his burst has FAILED. Soulbest is now in that same place.

 

So lets suggest a viable spec in this game that has a high skill floor as the benchmark, lets call that bench mark 10 out of 10.  Then, lets compare all current viable specs to that benchmark. I'll start, lets say chrono is 10/10.. and lets say bladesworn is 1/10. That is, if you have the ability to seperate class effectiveness from skillfloor, which this playbase seems incapable of doing, as they continually try to convince people spellbreaker is ''hard to play'' becuase it is ''easily kited''.

 

 

 

 

[vilesoldier.9826]

16 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I forgot to mention the rife level of projection within this playbase, thanks for the reminder. Also, ele had 1 easy spec, condi cata, which I never played. The rest of ele specs have a high skill floor, why let your bias hate at eles over performance (I also played off meta power cata) get in the way of this fact. More eles in the game is a good thing, since they have a higher skill floor than alot of specs, which means you can force MORE mistakes out of them. I want more of that, more complication across all specs, so that they have more room for error, and punishment for mistake. DD is suppose to be the ''razor edge'' spec, but we all know a good DD is nion unkillalbe, and is the lowest risk highest reward spec in the game, in terms of its ability to escape nion any situation and perma +1.. or just back cap all game drawing far more effort to counter.

 

Spoken like a true ele 🥲 

the joke that made it funny (especially with you doubling down) is that as an ele, you have willingly signed up to do more work than others. And you turn around and whine that classes need to push less buttons than you. cry harder

 

High skill floor is not the gold-standard for this game. Classes are allowed to be easy AND hard to be effective in combat. The trick is your skill in dealing with both, something you seem to struggle with in terms of the low-skill floor classes.

 

Also love your insistence on mentioning "tHaT yOu NeVeR pLaYeD cOnDi CaTa", let me get you your trophy for your valiant sacrifice 🏆

[Enduronex.4865]

23 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

stunbreak before you hit the barrier field. DH cant channel longbow 5 and yoink you at the same time. 💀

Nah I think yall are spoiled and need to start getting oneshot by setups that take a year to land. If you see a dh put down traps or channel lb 5, and youre tethered, you'd better be waiting for the millisecond you get yoinked.  If you live you win that interaction. 

But you're making a normative argument, so it's literally equal in validity to mine.  You're arguing "It should be the way where you die in 1 hit."  I'm arguing that you should not - you should be killed by a series of skillfully timed hits where the mesomangement wins the fight, not the fact that you can press 3 buttons and win (nades scrapper, LB DH, Zephyr Soulbeast, Arc Berserker, Death's Judgment on Deadeye, any burn willbender, etc).  In fact, there are so many of these builds in the game with the power creep, that I'd say YOU ARE SPOILED, not me.  

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 minute ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

I'd say YOU ARE SPOILED, not me.  

 

this that "I know you are, but what am I" middle-school energy 💀

[Enduronex.4865]

Just now, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

this that "I know you are, but what am I" middle-school energy 💀

Bud, I've seen the forums naysay me for years, the forums are full of dregs.

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 minutes ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

Bud, I've seen the forums naysay me for years, the forums are full of dregs.

 

you are in the circus too, dont forget your red nose 🔴

Edited August 3, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Enduronex.4865]

Just now, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

you are in the circus too, dont forget is your red nose 🔴

When people tell me to "dodge in a different direction" I know they are monkeys who aren't contributing anything.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

6 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why would I be specifically bias against ranger? go over my post history and you will see a trend.. that is, I cannot stand low effort or low risk specs that have moderate/high reward. I didn't play condi cata when it was OP, becuase it was kitten, and I have respect for other peoples playing experiance. However, it seems the same cannot be said about the majority of the playerbase, who jump on, and defend any low skill floor or low effort spec. Its was scrapper at one point, condi cata the next, now SB, next who knows... same kitten different patch.

 

Start from the top, the highest effort specs currently in use. What are they?

 

Work your way down, where you will quickly see that high effort/high skill floor specs are a rarity in GW2. Soulbeast now joins the low effort/low skillfloor specs becuase its burst damage+target drops+stun+evade means the avg level soulbeast will not dodge once, and still wipe the floor with the average level anything else. The definition of low effort high reward. When the work around takes more skill than the aggressive act. Similar can be said about dragonhunter engagemetns. The area denial they achieve while you try to work around trap spam+target drops+harp, while also factoring in other classes CC and pulls. When there are too many low skill or low effort specs, and they all mix in the same groupfights, it becomes a toxic game. Gw2 is a toxic game.

 

It is pretty safe to suggest that at this point, all that is left in this playerbase are die hard gw2 fans, who are completely desensitised to how aweful this game is, as they are too busy defending their given spec like its their first born child. Then, the company release new content, which attracts new players, who are then subjected to the toxic pvp environment+kitten poor matchmkaing system, where most basically quit. 

 

So essentially.. enjoy farming newbs with your low effort/low risk builds, while convincing yourselves it takes skill.

 

 

Bro haven't you stated you were quitting gw2 like 15 times now? Hop out the forms and quit 

[vilesoldier.9826]

Just now, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Bro haven't you stated you were quitting gw2 like 15 times now? Hop out the forms and quit 

 

IM SAYINGGGGGGGGGG

[Flowki.7194]

44 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Spoken like a true ele 🥲 

the joke that made it funny (especially with you doubling down) is that as an ele, you have willingly signed up to do more work than others. And you turn around and whine that classes need to push less buttons than you. cry harder

 

High skill floor is not the gold-standard for this game. Classes are allowed to be easy AND hard to be effective in combat. The trick is your skill in dealing with both, something you seem to struggle with in terms of the low-skill floor classes.

 

Also love your insistence on mentioning "tHaT yOu NeVeR pLaYeD cOnDi CaTa", let me get you your trophy for your valiant sacrifice 🏆

There are more viable low skillfloor specs than viable high skillfloor specs currently in use (make that list won't you?). The very fact of being low skill floor means they are easier to be effective with across most enounters, like scrapper compared to DD. Why not fix the high skillfloor DD so it is actually more viable in group fights rather than residing as a crutch back capper, and bring back some viable, complicated engi specs that do not revolve around spaming nades?

 

I guess you like your games brainded.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

Nuh uh

💀

1 hour ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

 you should be killed by a series of skillfully timed hits where the mesomangement wins the fight, not the fact that you can press 3 buttons and win (nades scrapper, LB DH, Zephyr Soulbeast, Arc Berserker, Death's Judgment on Deadeye, any burn willbender, etc). 

Okay.  I'll bite. Give me an example of a build that you think skillfully times its hits right now. 

Quote

bring back some viable, complicated engi specs that do not revolve around spaming nades?

I get blown up by Rory and Woodstock p frequently and neither of them use nades, i think those complicated engie specs exist already. 

Not that a little more cant be done in the stunbreak department but~

Edited August 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 the question might be. What is just more Skill needed. The ele that just have many buttons to Press to be realy good but once you get how your Combos (blast finishers and stuff) are working your Killing stuff without real effort in terms of actually timing your skills. Or a Warrior that get only 2 weapon Sets with just one Main mechanic that is very easy to learn but in the end you are forced to Play around been a Full melee class that got Skills with a lot of Cast time (means very easy to Dodge) without any real punish for ranged stuff aside non dmging CC skills ( also very Telegraphed) and against blind spamy enemys that could 100%-0% effect your Telegraphed dmg just by 1 blind, Aegis, Dodge, invuln, teleport.

 

What I realy wana say is. More Buttons to Press often do not mean you need more skill than anyone Else. Its a mix between what is most effective and how hard is it to get countered Play it.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Lighter.5631]

not gonna lie, warrior is definitely a big joke, everyone should learn it and understand what a big joke it is.🤡

also whats funny is none of my highest ranked ratings are with warrior haha, the entire class has been made into a big one-trick gimmick, not one build, but the entire class😂

[Enduronex.4865]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

💀

Okay.  I'll bite. Give me an example of a build that you think skillfully times its hits right now. 

 

Very well.  I will explain the whole process in detail and the rationale behind changes to the skills, traits, and general components of competitive gameplay that I would undertake. Give me a week to articulate it and you'll have your response.  

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I'd just like to add that I've been playing ranked, unranked, and ATs all day, and I haven't seen a single melee Soulbeast.

This build is already almost completely absent from representation.

Just to clarify for the rest of this discussion: We are now officially discussing annoying mechanics, not if something is OP.

 

What's really going on right now, in terms of strong classes that are good in both middle and higher tiers is:

1. Condiserks & Bladesworns
2. Guard Support & Willbender
3. Power & Condi Vindicators/Heralds
4. Nade Scrappers & Tool Holos
5. Traditional LB/GS Power Ranger variants, with mixed condi variants
6. Specter & DP Daredevil
7. Power Mirage & Chrono
8. Tempest Support & FA Catalyst
9. Scourge & Condi Reaper

Edited August 4, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Lighter.5631 said:

not gonna lie, warrior is definitely a big joke, everyone should learn it and understand what a big joke it is.🤡

also whats funny is none of my highest ranked ratings are with warrior haha, the entire class has been made into a big one-trick gimmick, not one build, but the entire class😂

I get that this is sarcasm, but as already stated and apparent to most: 1) there really isn't much "high tier" PvP anymore, so balancing purely for that is a poor argument. 2) Many other specs, now heavily nerfed, never saw serious play. 3) I titled the thread with the class titles because Warriors (Berserker, Bladesworn) and Rangers (Soulbeast OWP / Pig 1 shots, Druid) both have multiple borderline OP specs.

44 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'd just like to add that I've been playing ranked, unranked, and ATs all day, and I haven't seen a single melee Soulbeast.

I don't find playing blatantly OP things fun for very long, and I'm sure others feel the same. Saw the same effect with Catalyst for awhile. Playing on easy mode ruins your mechanics and doesn't prepare you for nerfs.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

23 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I don't find playing blatantly OP things fun for very long, and I'm sure others feel the same. Saw the same effect with Catalyst for awhile. Playing on easy mode ruins your mechanics and doesn't prepare you for nerfs.

Except that with everything else that ends up actually being OP, it becomes insanely overrepresented, like with Elementalist.

But for some reason, mysteriously with only Ranger, this rule of trending is somehow different.

Ok.