Nature Magic - thoughts?

[kiwituatara.6053]

Now that we've had more time to play around, how is everyone feeling about the revamp of this traitline? Anyone got any interesting builds to share?

I thought the new Protective Ward would be interesting but I can't seem to make a build that utilizes it well.

 

Edit: Looking more towards WvW builds just cuz thats my go to gamemode

Edited July 31, 2023 by kiwituatara.6053

[Beddo.1907]

There is only 2 traits I want changed. Spirited Arrival cause it's pretty weak, especially since Clarion Bond exists, so I'd change the trigger and add stab. Protective Ward, cause Guard! itself is bad, so the most reasonable change would be reworking the skills to not be practical unusable, unless you want to blow up your pet.

Other traits are usable, so I'd not force any changes for the sake of changes. Ranger would need a lot of spread out changes to improve in WvW, not one fix-all traitline.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Beddo.1907

[LughLongArm.5460]

18 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Now that we've had more time to play around, how is everyone feeling about the revamp of this traitline? Anyone got any interesting builds to share?

I thought the new Protective Ward would be interesting but I can't seem to make a build that utilizes it well.

 

Edit: Looking more towards WvW builds just cuz thats my go to gamemode

Great trait line for druids(obviously). Windborn notes+ healing spring+druid passives = Very strong passive healing. 
Protective Ward is nice with nice with turtle. Use your key pet most of the time and in clutch moments, swap to turtle + f2. You and close allies will receive projectile deny + protection +  the guard's damage reduction. 

[Dadnir.5038]

Since 2015, I just can't stand the 20s ICD on invigorating bond. I'd rather have had this CD removed and the healing value reduced than have protection and vigor added to the trait.

I mean, I would have been fine with Invigorating bond having the same healing value as tempest's elemental bastion. The potential healing output wouldn't be very different either thanks to the eagle's F2.

[Mell.4873]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:39 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

There is only 2 traits I want changed. Spirited Arrival cause it's pretty weak, especially since Clarion Bond exists, so I'd change the trigger and add stab. Protective Ward, cause Guard! itself is bad, so the most reasonable change would be reworking the skills to not be practical unusable, unless you want to blow up your pet.

Other traits are usable, so I'd not force any changes for the sake of changes. Ranger would need a lot of spread out changes to improve in WvW, not one fix-all traitline.

They both have some synergy for Shared Anguish for stomping especially if you are on Untamed and are Teleport in to one shot people with Hammer.

Honestly my biggest problem Natures Vengeance which has essentially become an AoE DPS trait with two slams rather than anything Support related. It should just give each Spirits another unique boon which would provide a better alternative to Invigorating Bond.

[Beddo.1907]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

They both have some synergy for Shared Anguish for stomping especially if you are on Untamed and are Teleport in to one shot people with Hammer.

Explain to me like im 12, how does one do hammer oneshot with Nature Magic sloted?

[Mell.4873]

12 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Explain to me like im 12, how does one do hammer oneshot with Nature Magic sloted?

Im more just throwing out a scenario where you would not have be running traited Greatsword since that would compete with my theory. 

It could be any weapon though, Longbow rapid fire into Sword leaps then pet swap to finish the player off. It is kind of irrelevant how they go down but what is strong is be able to finish people while surrounded.

This is pretty much why Mirage is back in terms of WvW roaming. You can't interrupt their dodge once they have casted it. 

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

Shifting Nature Magic away from being a selfish, self-only defensive line is much better, puts it more in line with how the support lines in other classes work (Water, Alchemy, Blood Magic, etc).

Ranger has always had an issue in the base class where they have no good support for others. Druid pretty much carried the entire support kit instead. Felt very lopsided compared to like every other support in the game. For example, nothing in Firebrand actually directly helps Guardian with healing. It just lets them give quickness and other strong utility. The foundation for Guardian support lies within Honor in the base class.

[Bastrii.3047]

I really like the Spirit changes, first off. Not a fan of their inability to sustain themselves at 100% concentration, but their slam mechanic is a lot of fun. Double Slam in Nature means I can pump out 2 blinds with Sun Spirit, while passing out 8 stacks of an extremely long duration might. At the same time, the 6 stacks of burning lasts far longer than Flame Trap, and deals significantly more damage with a much larger range and utility effect. So in a lot of situations, that's just flat out better. After a bit of digging, with a prime DPS set up, you could churn out 40k damage from it. Not bad for a utility at all.

Stone Spirit feels like a panic button, and not something you drop at random. Don't know if that's a good thing considering how common chip damage is, and how often people *need* protection.

I don't know if I'd take Frost Spirit when I have something like Healing Spring on hand. Maybe as a situational for certain raids, but again, Healing Spring tends to cover that. Maybe it could have Stun Break tacked on? But then it wouldn't fit as a condi-cleanse so much as a panic button.

Lightning Spirit hits decently hard, but it still can't compare to Sun Spirit in terms of raw damage. I feel like it needs1 second of quickness tacked on (4 applied, 8 with max concentration). Or it could break stun instead of Water Spirit. A stun break spirit that applies CC would be great, and I feel like people would take it in PvP. Fury alone isn't a selling point, and so many classes pump out Vulnerability that it's really not needed. It's close to what it should be, though, I'll give it that.

Now, for the actual tree itself, it's definitely an improvement over the original. WN churns out a lot of healing when you place Healing Spring, because it has no internal cooldown. This is a good thing, and makes it a great trait, even without a warhorn. I'm not a fan of nuking my pet - really, swapping pets all the time shouldn't be needed to maintain some boons. Some fights you really need a specific Pet available to you, others it doesn't matter at all - but I digress.

Overall, it's a good tree for supporting your team now, even without Druid. Though some changes could be made in the future to improve it.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Bastrii.3047
Spelling/forgot a few words.

[Mauti.3520]

Spirited Arrival should be on Pet Ability not swap in my opinion. The boons on it are debateable, though I would keep Might.
I really like Nature's Vengeance and Invigorating Bond and Regen coming from Beast Abilities and possibly Healing Skill. CD on Invigorating Bond is debateable.

Overall I like the direction we are going in. It's becoming a better support traitline overall.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

Protective Ward is a dead trait as far as I can tell. The effect is the same as Protection but it often results in your pet getting deleted, especially in a high damage scenario (where you would want to have this option). Even worse is it is applied on swap, so your pet swap will still be on cooldown too. If I am running spirits I like the extra slam, otherwise I just take the nice heal on beast skills. This is a GM trait, it should be defining of the whole trait-line and something you would look to build around. Unless anyone has had any better experiences with it?

The removal of the internal cooldown on evasive purity was a welcome change, it's pretty much an auto-pick for me now.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 8/1/2023 at 5:13 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Im more just throwing out a scenario where you would not have be running traited Greatsword since that would compete with my theory. 

It could be any weapon though, Longbow rapid fire into Sword leaps then pet swap to finish the player off. It is kind of irrelevant how they go down but what is strong is be able to finish people while surrounded.

This is pretty much why Mirage is back in terms of WvW roaming. You can't interrupt their dodge once they have casted it. 

You won't be one-shotting anyone with NM equipped.  Also teleburst was always GS for a reason, even pre-UT nerf, because Hammer has a leap on the skill you'd one-shot with (#5).  

Shared Anguish is also only one stack of stab, so good chance you still get CC'd out of it if you are fighting multiple people.  Even a single Rangers downstate #2 can waste it a by itself as it is a daze/CC, so just downstate #2 then pet-swap into pet CC to stop the stomp entirely.

I mean, when running Druid I'll take it but Dolyak Stance just blows it out of the water in every regard.  

[Mell.4873]

58 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You won't be one-shotting anyone with NM equipped.  Also teleburst was always GS for a reason, even pre-UT nerf, because Hammer has a leap on the skill you'd one-shot with (#5).  

Shared Anguish is also only one stack of stab, so good chance you still get CC'd out of it if you are fighting multiple people.  Even a single Rangers downstate #2 can waste it a by itself as it is a daze/CC, so just downstate #2 then pet-swap into pet CC to stop the stomp entirely.

I mean, when running Druid I'll take it but Dolyak Stance just blows it out of the water in every regard.  

All true, which is why I use the trait mostly for dueling

[kiwituatara.6053]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:03 PM, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Protective Ward is a dead trait as far as I can tell. The effect is the same as Protection but it often results in your pet getting deleted, especially in a high damage scenario (where you would want to have this option). Even worse is it is applied on swap, so your pet swap will still be on cooldown too. If I am running spirits I like the extra slam, otherwise I just take the nice heal on beast skills. This is a GM trait, it should be defining of the whole trait-line and something you would look to build around. Unless anyone has had any better experiences with it?

The removal of the internal cooldown on evasive purity was a welcome change, it's pretty much an auto-pick for me now.

Funnily enough, Soulbeast, the most "non-pet elite spec", needs Protective Ward the least due to having better defensive options, but SB is the only elite spec with consistent pet survivability (no pet death penalty) to run the trait with.

But yeah, protective ward seems dead. I can't make a build around it at all. If anyone has got any ideas please share!

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:05 PM, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Funnily enough, Soulbeast, the most "non-pet elite spec", needs Protective Ward the least due to having better defensive options, but SB is the only elite spec with consistent pet survivability (no pet death penalty) to run the trait with.

But yeah, protective ward seems dead. I can't make a build around it at all. If anyone has got any ideas please share!

It's even worse if you run it with Eternal Bond, in which case you take the damage on behalf of your allies.