introduce separate leagues for pvp

[nad.8910]

I see people proposing more rewards for PVP in order to attract new players but in my opinion the main reason why the population is so low is that players trying pvp have zero fun because they just get farmed and insulted every single game. PVP doesn't need players attracted by rewards, it needs players attracted by the fun of it. New accounts should not be able to join ranked until they have managed to qualify in a separate league that lasts at least 3 months and it's not accessible to accounts that have already qualified in it, this way we wouldn't have teams mixing experienced players with complete newbies and a proliferation of alt accounts from top players monopolizing the first 50 positions. Rewards for this second division should be low enough to discourage pro players from spending 3 months in it just to be able to get one more account to the ranked division (or premier league if you want). 

[Khalisto.5780]

I like the idea, but, 95% of ppl in top 25 have been there since I started playing pvp hardcore in 2018. That said your newbie league would do much for that matter.

removing duo q would be a better solution, since the 2 higher rating players online wouldnt be able to team up as it often happens, it would also nerf the q sync with alt accounts, since they join as double duos with exactly the same classes to be matched against each other to wintrade when the population is at its lowest. Like q up as double thief 5 am to be matched against each other.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I agree completely. They should be split into a 'soloq-only' league, and an 'I'm only good with help' league for the sake of fairness.

[Saiyan.1704]

We have been asking for a soloQ ranked league for a very long time and the excuse is always, "iT wIlL sEpErAtE tHe pOpUlAtIoN"..... then they release Stronghold immediately afterwards lol.

There's no reason to not have a SoloQ lonewolf leaderboards with their own solo rewards/titles.

[ccccc.4963]

2 hours ago, nad.8910 said:

players trying pvp have zero fun because they just get farmed and insulted every single game

At some point anet needs to tell people to use their keyboards

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, nad.8910 said:

I see people proposing more rewards for PVP in order to attract new players but in my opinion the main reason why the population is so low is that players trying pvp have zero fun because they just get farmed and insulted every single game. PVP doesn't need players attracted by rewards, it needs players attracted by the fun of it. New accounts should not be able to join ranked until they have managed to qualify in a separate league that lasts at least 3 months and it's not accessible to accounts that have already qualified in it, this way we wouldn't have teams mixing experienced players with complete newbies and a proliferation of alt accounts from top players monopolizing the first 50 positions. Rewards for this second division should be low enough to discourage pro players from spending 3 months in it just to be able to get one more account to the ranked division (or premier league if you want). 

lol rather than punishing the victims of toxic behaviour, incentivise good behaviour and punish toxic behaviour.

[Bordone.1053]

biggest issue with new players isn't experienced players farming them it's that they don't even bother to learn the basics. if you can't count to 5 and figure out where you should/shouldn't be on the map, can't stand on a circle, and ignore map mechanics, no amount of different leagues is going to solve them losing. 

Better solution would be a tutorial mode with bots (if devs can't figure out how to get the bots to function can just ask half the pvp player base) as the req to get into ranked or unranked.

[deathdealer.2197]

No way there are enoughplayers for that lol i doubt there is even 1k activepvpers tbh

[Bunbury.8472]

how about this

don't rate new accounts at 1200 gold 1 rating

if you've ever wondered why the player retention is so bad for new players, it's because after they qualify for ranked they are forced to fight gold/plat players. with legend division dead, new players are immediately put in games with people from the second highest division, and yeah they get farmed and flamed.

feel free to get rid of duo, or restrict it beyond 1200 rating, but all you will get is players quitting (then sure you can climb a bit higher on the LB, but how high do you need to get? I mean I assume anyone remotely try harding pvp is in the top 100 players already. I was on solo queue heal warrior so if you cant get top 100 kekw, even Trevor is in there). first ranked game Andy will still be in the games with vets climbing to plat & get farmed and flamed. the new player retention issue will only be solved when they are rated bronze so they can actually have fun.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Bunbury.8472

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly I think k a lot of the toxicity all comes from player frustration, this game is so bad for having matches where u farm the opposite team match after match getting top offense, kills, damage etc and cap like a mad man yet ur team feeds faster than u can carry, this happens so often I truly believe it causes a lot of the player toxicity, it feels like doesnt matter how much u improve if ur teams skills dictate ur rank and how fast u finish ur reward tracks. It gets almost to the point it's infuriating lol. Solo queue would be the best thing they can do for pvp, leave team queueing for unranked and comps.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

6 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

how about this

don't rate new accounts at 1200 gold 1 rating

if you've ever wondered why the player retention is so bad for new players, it's because after they qualify for ranked they are forced to fight gold/plat players. with legend division dead, new players are immediately put in games with people from the second highest division, and yeah they get farmed and flamed.

feel free to get rid of duo, or restrict it beyond 1200 rating, but all you will get is players quitting (then sure you can climb a bit higher on the LB, but how high do you need to get? I mean I assume anyone remotely try harding pvp is in the top 100 players already. I was on solo queue heal warrior so if you cant get top 100 kekw, even Trevor is in there). first ranked game Andy will still be in the games with vets climbing to plat & get farmed and flamed. the new player retention issue will only be solved when they are rated bronze so they can actually have fun.

You've got way too much faith in the broken matchmaking and you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. When there's only a couple hundred people playing; even less at any given time, matchmaking might as well not even exist. The less players there are, the worse matchmaking becomes. PvP doesn't make players wait to get into an evenly matched game, the longer you spend in queue, the lower & higher outside your rating it's willing to go just to put you in one rather than making you wait an eternity for one that is more evenly matched.

Nobody is saying get rid of DuoQ and nobody cares about their ranking. If you think matchmaking is bad for newbies as is, how do you think they feel going 2v1 on top of that? It's not fun to be on the receiving end of, it's just stupid and not fair in the slightest.

If Anet would do like the OP is saying and split ranked into different leagues; solos and teams instead of mixing both together, everyone would be better off and that's one less dice roll to deal with when matchmaking regardless of rank.

If someone is willing to quit because they specifically can't DuoQ against random SoloQs then good riddance. That's no threat at all, that's actually wonderful news 👋😁

[Madam Pussycat.6153]

If they re-introduced solo queue,( we used to have solo que) pvp matches would be a million times better and new player friendly. Re-adding back the removed amulets would make things more fun and new player friendly as well since we would have more build diversity and less 1 shot builds ruling pvp and traumatizing new people. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

rated should be solo only, then while the population supports it have a 2nd queue that supports teams of 2. Prioritise the majority not the minority.

[Bunbury.8472]

14 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

You've got way too much faith in the broken matchmaking and you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. When there's only a couple hundred people playing; even less at any given time, matchmaking might as well not even exist. The less players there are, the worse matchmaking becomes. PvP doesn't make players wait to get into an evenly matched game, the longer you spend in queue, the lower & higher outside your rating it's willing to go just to put you in one rather than making you wait an eternity for one that is more evenly matched.

Nobody is saying get rid of DuoQ and nobody cares about their ranking. If you think matchmaking is bad for newbies as is, how do you think they feel going 2v1 on top of that? It's not fun to be on the receiving end of, it's just stupid and not fair in the slightest.

If Anet would do like the OP is saying and split ranked into different leagues; solos and teams instead of mixing both together, everyone would be better off and that's one less dice roll to deal with when matchmaking regardless of rank.

If someone is willing to quit because they specifically can't DuoQ against random SoloQs then good riddance. That's no threat at all, that's actually wonderful news 👋😁

yeah.... not actually what OP was asking for. The OP doesn't care about solo and duo, it's you who does.

here's what OP wants "Newaccounts should not be able to join ranked until they have managed to qualify in a separate league that lasts at least 3 months and it's not accessible to accounts that have already qualified in it, this way we wouldn't have teams mixing experienced players with complete newbies and a proliferation of alt accounts from top players monopolizing the first 50 positions. Rewards for this second division should be low enough to discourage pro players from spending 3 months in it just to be able to get one more account to the ranked division (or premier league if you want)."

a separate league so new players can learn the game without having to face vet players. you know what would help with that idea, without creating a whole new player league?

yep, that's right: not rating new players gold 1

the OP wants new players to be able to play with each other and not vets. this will never happen as long as anet keeps treating new players as gold 1 for matchmaking.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

34 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

yeah.... not actually what OP was asking for. The OP doesn't care about solo and duo, it's you who does.

34 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

here's what OP wants "Newaccounts should not be able to join ranked until they have managed to qualify in a separate league that lasts at least 3 months and it's not accessible to accounts that have already qualified in it, this way we wouldn't have teams mixing experienced players with complete newbies and a proliferation of alt accounts from top players monopolizing the first 50 positions. Rewards for this second division should be low enough to discourage pro players from spending 3 months in it just to be able to get one more account to the ranked division (or premier league if you want)."

Yes, the OP suggested introducing separate leagues for PvP, and I suggested making those separate leagues solo and teams rather than dividing the already anemic population based on playtime. That being the point where the disagreement was made. I approve of the general concept of having separate leagues, but in a different way to what you and the OP are suggesting as there's nothing stopping a vet player from making an alt and rolling over this proposed 'newbie league' and no guarantee that there's even enough new players coming in to provide these new players with competition and healthy queue times.

That's also ignoring the fact that unranked is already essentially the same thing as this 'newbie league' being designed to prepare new players to potentially engage in ranked after grinding out their first 20 PvP levels; which, if you made the argument that they need more time to prepare and more rewards in unranked to incentivize them to stick with it, I'd probably agree with you.

34 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

a separate league so new players can learn the game without having to face vet players. you know what would help with that idea, without creating a whole new player league?

yep, that's right: not rating new players gold 1

the OP wants new players to be able to play with each other and not vets. this will never happen as long as anet keeps treating new players as gold 1 for matchmaking.

Rating is utterly meaningless in terms of both matchmaking and accomplishment. This stems from both the low population and DuoQ as I've already explained here in this thread and now over at 

DuoQ however is not meaningless. It is the root of the problem because regardless of what rating you are, 2v1 is neither fair nor fun. It can be used by the veteran players you seem have a strong disdain towards to actively and knowingly break matchmaking & snipe players of much lower ratings and levels of experience.

DuoQ is a huge advantage that favors veteran players who understand how matchmaking works over the new players that you claim to care so much about, rendering your argument entirely paradoxical.