How on earth do you play Herald

[Arklite.4013]

I've never been an avid revenant player until Vindi came around. With the upcoming weaponmaster changes, I'm excited to try GS Herald. I've never really played herald and I'm struggling to wrap my head around, especially coming from vindi which is very self-sufficient and jack-of-all-trades-y. Most of these apply to open world but I also do fractals, strikes, and sPvP. These are some initial thoughts/questions from a newcomer to the spec.

How do you deal with condis? If you're running glint/shiro you basically have 0 condi cleanse.

You also have no access to stab, and aside from consuming facet of light (which is admittedly fantastic), your sustain is limited to regeneration, shiro heal and F2 life steal (+/- battle scars if running it).

Glint's only mobility is swiftness so you're reliant on your other legend or weapons to move (which almost all require a target) - how much does this "sting"?

What's the point of Glint F2 when you maintain 100% boon uptime just by using the facets normally?

Aside from obvious use cases like consuming facet of darkness to break stun, when do you want to maintain vs consume facets? e.g. is it better to give yourself a bunch of might or instantly use burst of strength for the damage and buff? Same with facet of elements, do you just mash that on cooldown for the damage? I'm somewhat proficient with quickness herald, but mostly because I memorized the rotation and know my job is to poop out a bunch of boons, which is different than non-group PvE content

 

Someone make it make sense to my pea-brain

Edited August 17, 2023 by Arklite.4013
added additional thoughts

[draxynnic.3719]

In order:

1) If you're facing heavy condi pressure and you don't have healers to help, consider switching out of Shiro. Jalis is pretty tanky and also provides stability if you want to remain on a power build, and doesn't cost too much in damage if you treat hammers like IO, and while it might seem paradoxical on a power DPS build, swapping to Ventari to deal with condi or projectile pressure, or even to Mallyx in the case of conditions, isn't that uncommon. If you want to stick to Shiro, sPvP power herald is known to be weak to conditions for a reason, but options often include running a cleansing sigil or other cleanse out of runes and/or sigils, and using staff as the off weapon for its condi cleanse.

2) See above. Staff gives additional sustain, and there's a degree of "don't get hit" between blocks and evades as well. Glint/Shiro does have the issue of being a bit conditional in your heals, since Facet of Light requires being hit to heal and Enchanted Daggers requires hitting to heal.

3) Not a lot, really. Near-permanent swiftness is pretty good, and you generally DO have mobility out of weapons and/or taking Shiro. You can also use Facet of Chaos for bursts of superspeed - it has a short enough recharge in PvE that this doesn't cost you too much.

4) Situational, but it often helps to get more might stacks, keep boons up longer after consuming a facet, and maintain boons for longer after consuming a facet. If you don't need the boon extension, though, don't use it, and feel free to use the F2 on another legend or just save the energy.

5) The usual rule of thumb is to maintain Light and Darkness (until and unless you need them for healing or stunbreak respectively) and to mash Elements and Strength for damage - getting a burst in during the extra damage window after consuming Strength is usually worth more than a few more Might stacks. Nature and Chaos are more situational - Nature depends a lot on your precise build (a power DPS might keep it up indefinitely, for instance), and in the case of Chaos it depends on whether you need protection, energy, or CC more.

Hope this helps!

[Polar.8634]

12 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

How do you deal with condis? If you're running glint/shiro you basically have 0 condi cleanse.

in pvp your condi cleance is kitten, so you either burst target down before it puts ton of condi on you, or dont engage with condi heavy enemy at all. Condi herald uses demon stance, which deals with condi much better then power due to f2 condi transfer and shield trait. 

12 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

You also have no access to stab

on power herald you dont have that, burst target down in few seconds or run. select target you can burst. if before match you see nobody is squishy relog to something else. also map is important - you are bad in the open, but smth like khylo gie you advantage to port through obstacles = not being hit untill you burst. what is sad about herald - it is squishy roamer, so you cannot hold node/tank for your party effectivelly. it means if party is really bad you can't do much about it, unless enemy party is horrible.

12 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

how much does this "sting"?

you use shiro to move. use "take target" and try to port through walls, you can also use shiro stunbreak aboutface to evade forward. remember your mobility is much worse in pvp then in pve due to pvp nerfs to shiro, so plan you cooldowns and energy accordingly

12 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

What's the point of Glint F2

glint f2 you only doubletap, with corresponding trait taken. it prolongs even boons you dont apply on allies. in pvp you use f2 on other legends, also doubletap. 

12 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

maintain vs consume facets?

in group pve you do rotation. in non-group pve, you want to ensure to have boons you need. in general, strenght and elements allways use off cd, it will be better damage. darkness upkeep for stunbreak. chaos upkeep when taking damage, release whenever you need cc. light upkeep for heal. and when energy ends - swap. f2 i would not ever upkeep unless you want to help other players. If in your build you give quickness then use quickherald rotation. in pvp you cannot rely on rotation so try to pull some energy - especially in shiro. It would be nice to have energy pool to have stunbreak available. 

[arazoth.7290]

F2 upkeep is pretty bad to do, even at current cost. So rather use that for consume effect only, that consume part is pretty usefull.

Don't forget to combo your consume effect with the facets that give might and fury + on consume increased damage. This is most usefull in pvp and WvW because lf bursts. Unless you need facet of darkness for a situational blind, stunbreak or stealth reveal on enemies. 

Facet lf darkness reveal can be used proactive if you're about to burst so they can't hide in stealth, or to reveal if stealthed. This still can be dodged and so on, so use it well.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

F2 upkeep is pretty bad to do, even at current cost. So rather use that for consume effect only, that consume part is pretty usefull.

If I recall correctly, pure power DPS herald in PvE does maintain F2, partly for the effect (it does help fill gaps in boon coverage when in Glint, and the party lifesteal gives you a little more DPS in Shiro) while also being another upkeep skill that fuels Forceful Persistence. Quickherald does prefer to consume it, though, and pure power DPS rev does seem to have fallen out of favour.

[arazoth.7290]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

If I recall correctly, pure power DPS herald in PvE does maintain F2, partly for the effect (it does help fill gaps in boon coverage when in Glint, and the party lifesteal gives you a little more DPS in Shiro) while also being another upkeep skill that fuels Forceful Persistence. Quickherald does prefer to consume it, though, and pure power DPS rev does seem to have fallen out of favour.

well, partly on shiro only and still not that much. The others I won't spean about 😅. centaur facet upkeep is pve good, it can give higher aoe healing if needed that is worth the upkeep cost => in spvp/WvW nope. jalis and mallyx facet upkeep are a waste lf time to hold as upkeep anywhere

[draxynnic.3719]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:43 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

well, partly on shiro only and still not that much. The others I won't spean about 😅. centaur facet upkeep is pve good, it can give higher aoe healing if needed that is worth the upkeep cost => in spvp/WvW nope. jalis and mallyx facet upkeep are a waste lf time to hold as upkeep anywhere

I'd say they're situational. 10% damage reduction to the party is hard to analyse but it is 10% less damage for a fairly low upkeep (admittedly, Facet of Chaos has a bigger return, but Jalis Facet of Nature works even if you already have sufficient Protection). Mallyx is most commonly rapidly consumed for the condition transfer, but upkeeping it for a little while to pull conditions off your team before transferring can have its benefits.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

48 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'd say they're situational. 10% damage reduction to the party is hard to analyse but it is 10% less damage for a fairly low upkeep (admittedly, Facet of Chaos has a bigger return, but Jalis Facet of Nature works even if you already have sufficient Protection). Mallyx is most commonly rapidly consumed for the condition transfer, but upkeeping it for a little while to pull conditions off your team before transferring can have its benefits.

The damage reduction on Jalis being only 6% (multiplicative) when you have protection is pretty abysmal tbh

[Buran.3796]

   Herald was nerfed pre-EoD release (so the new specs could shine) and so far I've avoided using it since, with great success. Seems that the ofensive support build with quickness for PvE team content works great, but I'm not interested in "teams" at PvE.

  In PvP I don't think it would be meta again, since every top choice is either a better bruiser with much more sustain and stability or has a powerful ranged game with plenty of cc chains and mobility. It still can work in Ranked vs pugs but the game evolved and is now entirely based in cc combos, and with no stability and so few condi cleanses, being a purely mele build there's  just not a reason to play Herald (lets see if short bow changes anything, but I don't see how it would work better than Renegade or Vindicator).

   Playing Renebow vs Soulbeast, Untamed, Mirage, Catalyst, Harbinger, Spellbreaker, Scarpper...  Only convinced me more about how futile Herald is. It also doesn't remotely plays as was released; one thing is numerical nerfs, but some features were removed and the spec just lacks flow: resembles the new Willbender, just that Willbender has poor cc but better AoE damage, mobility and cleanses. And still WB is not meta, so guess how far Herald is...

[Infinity.2876]

I prefer condi herald over power because you get condi cleanse through malyx while maintaining dmg and I like mace. With the addition of short bow condi herald will probably be a lot better even after torment was nerfed.

If your looking for power suggestions then the above posts will help.

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

The damage reduction on Jalis being only 6% (multiplicative) when you have protection is pretty abysmal tbh

That's still making you 10% harder to kill by strike damage than with protection along - multiplicative scaling just means you don't get to reduce damage to zero by stacking enough of them (and herald can have plenty to stack...)

[Anonynja.3172]

Simply put, play really aggressively on Herald and you'll do better. I got way better after raiding for legendary armor because my muscle memory let me simply fight faster than opponents.

You can spike fast with power herald and pressure hard with condi herald. Condi herald has fantastic condi cleanse, sustained pressure, utility, and some tankiness. Power herald has weak condi cleanse, team utility, strong burst, and strong defense you have to use strategically (facet of light, staff, blind, and CC). 

[Buran.3796]

2 hours ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

You can spike fast with power herald and pressure hard with condi herald. Condi herald has fantastic condi cleanse, sustained pressure, utility, and some tankiness. 

   Condi Herald has been a punching bag the last several MATs. Can't understand the delusional CMC "buffs" and my guess is that the only reason it had any representation is due those couple of  players main the class and are unable to run anything else, but the performance has been laughlable.

   By the way the SotO patch deletes the +10% HP from Divinity and Balthazar, so Herald and Vindi are now even weaker...  Rebebow still playable and best option with Lynx + antitoxin relic but nowhere near to be meta.