Staff/Staff quickheal untamed

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

I'm not a theory crafter so I won't get into much detail but I've been messing around with staff/staff quickheal untamed.  Bascially build it just like druid (stats, item upgrades, monk relic) with all the buffs on pet swap using Marksmanship/Nature magic lines and spirit usage.  Weapon swap and on CD and use one untamed power swap ambush before every weapon swap for 2x staff ambush per swap.  I don't know how "meta" it is or isn't but it seems to heal and support perfectly fine in t4 fractals and raids so far.  Basically a quickheal option for rangers. Someone better than I can give a more in depth discussion about why it will or won't work in the end. 

Edit: the staff ambush seems to do most of the heavy lifting.  Roughly 4k heal per ambush with being able to do back to back ambushes on weapon swap for roughly 8k healing every 10s or so on top of all the other buffs/heals going out.

Edited August 24, 2023 by sevenDEADLY.5281

[Jonas.2079]

Copying my post from the other thread as this topic seems more specialized 🙂 

Quick disclaimer; i  haven't played in a while so i might have misunderstood certain things, apologies if that is the case! Just find theorycrafting fun 🙂 

Anyone tried quick-heal staff/staff untamed yet? Seemed like it could be good during but idk what the healing power scaling is on the staff ambush, wiki only lists it as a flat 660 heal? Doesn't sound right from what I recall being said during the beta but haven't been able to try it out yet myself. It seems like a build like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POQAIlJwUYJsRGJWqSaxvRcH-zRJYqRBfZkYCUdB47yggAA-e could be good (replacing the hammer for staff), if the healing on staff ambush wasn't gutted. 

The staff ambush alone gives perma prot, quickness and a strong(?) heal. We also have the regular staff heals for even more healing and some cleanse, and slotted quickdraw so we can use them even more. With nature magic we also get a lot of regen sources, and regen is improved.

Stone spirit gives us aegis on demand as we do not need it for protection, and the white tiger gives us aegis as well.

Our might generation comes from a double slam sun spirit as well as spirited arrival, the latter of which we also need for fury generation alongside spotter. Requiring a pet swap in the rotation isn't great IMO, but at least it looks like simply starting the fight with the secondary pet, using its skills then swapping leaves you a bit of time and you don't need to be swapping off CD. I chose a hawk as the second pet to provide some swiftness as well, but the second pet would be a pretty free choice, I think. Finally, we have a lot of revive power with search and rescue as well as nature spirit, but both of these are swappable for whatever the situation requires. Other potentially useful utilities could be guard, protect me, flame trap (for an alternative might source), frost spirit, storm spirit, signet of renewal. Nature spirit is also swappable for entangle when extra immob is needed, and even forest's fortification may have some uses (solo mission to deal with mechanic where you need to survive type stuff). On top of all this we have projectile hate, boonrip and boon corrupts from Untamed's kit. 

Another build option could be switching the double spirit slam for invigorating bond for more healing and vigor, as well as even more protection. This requires you to use your beast skill though, so it would be more difficult to save the White Tiger's Aegis for reactionary use. Then again, because we generate prot from staff ambushes we can save the stone spirit for reactionary aegis, and pet swapping + using beast skills often will make regen, fury, might and vigor uptime better/easier while also providing more healing, so this may be the better option. In that case it is you could run something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POQAIlJwsYJsRGJWuS6xvScfXA-zRJYqRBfZkYCUdB47q0eAA-e Running invigorating bond, with trappers expertise and flame trap for might (we have blast finishers on i.e. rending vines, staff 3, quickdraw staff 3, frost spirit, stone spirit). Jungle stalker can be picked for even more might, and Hawk for swiftness. 

Overall it seems like it could be a strong build only really lacking access to stability. What do you all think? 

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

The more I play it the more I really like it.  More than druid at this point.

[Mell.4873]

It also good to note that for General PvE purposes Rangers benifit alot more from Quickness since most of there skills have very low cooldowns and they have amazing auto attacks. 

Running Alacrity on Druid with is very low cooldowns especially on CA skills is really just a waste. 9 seconds is normally plenty of time to get everything back. Most of out longest cooldown skills are 20-30 seconds. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Mell.4873

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Tried staff on Power Untamed just to see interaction and even without building it similar to druid, the heal was still pretty decent. 600 heal per tick on a power build defo made things fun and the AOE Damage is decent. You can either Staff/Staff for repeated spam, but for me Staff/Hammer was my combination for CC on certain bosses with hammer cuz Staff CC is basically non-existent. The fact that Unleashed Ambush resets on Weapon Swap keeps it consistent too if you don't like Unleashing pet that often

[Maria Murtor.7253]

Yesterday during strikes someone tested an Untamed Healer. But this person played it with Staff + Axe/Warhorn (I think). I was baffled that the healing was more than enough to do Boneskinner. So, I gave it a try myself yesterday with some not too hard content. Played it as a mix of Magi + Harrier. I'm bringing Stone + Frost Spirit + Elite Spirit (not sure about the third support skill yet). Also, White Tiger and Fern Hound. I'm not generating much Might. But the other boons were impressive. As long as all people are together, the double pulse healing + Regeneration is good. I'm  a bit afraid of how encounters go where people have to leave the group like Cairn, some strikes and others. Also, due to the lack of Electro Wyvern, Avatar and Warhorn the CC is super weak in my build right now. While Druid is good in every encounter (in my opinion), the Untamed Healer on the other hand can shine or not (at least how I play it right now. But I haven't had much time to figure things out yet).

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

I've been using search and rescue as the 3rd utility slot to make ressing just that much better.  If only one person goes down I use search and rescue, if a bunch go down I use the elite spirit.  Seems to work great. Stone spirit + sun spirit and healing spring trap. I wish there was an option for a good main hand healing weapon to pair better with warhorn but unless main hand mace is randomly a healing weapon I'm just gonna stick to staff/staff. Its working very well so far. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Heal Quick Untamed -- (1) GW2 test Heal Quick Untamed for pve - Twitch -- Shows/discusses build in beginning, does T4 fractal run test starting at 1:13:20

1. All Cele Gear/Monk Runes/Monk Relic - it's the best optimized stat skew for what the build has to work with. You want damage on it because it has to rotate attacking to create quickness, so celestial ends up being the best of both worlds for DPS output and the stats it needs for heal/boon duration.
2. Axe & Warhorn/Earth & Transference -- Staff/Earth & Transference
3. Jacaranda & Aether Hunter, or Ibolga if you don't like the Shark's 2s bug on swap.

Anyone else test anything like this yet? Tell me what you think about it. Although it is not as good as a normal Healbrand, due to not have having on demand party stab or aegis, it can fill in as an alternative HB. You know, for those times when you're waiting 15 minutes for a HB to join and he aint showing up. This can get the job done.

I like the build. It feels smooth to play and gives the Untamed a real reason to exist in pve again. It also has quite a lot of DPS for a dedicated Heal Quick Support. It can bench easily 10k-12k by itself while doing heal rotations and without boons from the Arena Console in raid room. With an actual group and refined rotational cycles, this build could probably bench 15k+ pretty easily.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Aaron Forestman.4758]

I can confirm this build works amazingly. One thing it lacks that healers are usually expected to bring is stability, but at least Protect Me can be taken to mitigate that issue some. For total boon uptime it's much more useful to take marksmanship over skirmishing so pet swapping gives more might and permanent fury. Since the staff ambush will keep protection up permanently, I've been running Storm Spirit over Stone Spirit to add a lot of cc to the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlJwUYHsQGJO+SaxvSe1dA-DSJYqR1fJ47FBZQQAA-e

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

3 hours ago, Aaron Forestman.4758 said:

I can confirm this build works amazingly. One thing it lacks that healers are usually expected to bring is stability, but at least Protect Me can be taken to mitigate that issue some. For total boon uptime it's much more useful to take marksmanship over skirmishing so pet swapping gives more might and permanent fury. Since the staff ambush will keep protection up permanently, I've been running Storm Spirit over Stone Spirit to add a lot of cc to the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlJwUYHsQGJO+SaxvSe1dA-DSJYqR1fJ47FBZQQAA-e

Yeah thats how I've been running it.  Marksmanship + Nature magic.   With both pet swap traits, pet swapping keeps up fury and might easily. To be fair I guess you don't really need either storm spirit or stone spirit for fury or protection.  But I like the aegis from stone spirit. 

[Mic.1897]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Anyone else test anything like this yet? 

Yeah there's already a thread on it lol

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

17 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

Yeah there's already a thread on it lol

They're talking about staff/staff though.

It's just not optimized.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[RenneBright.2473]

20 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I like the build. It feels smooth to play and gives the Untamed a real reason to exist in pve again.

It's not "a real reason", since pdps Untamed has been around for longer, even pre-Soto, since the first buff of Ferocious Symbiosis back in November. SB has no dome or boons strips, which are both brought up by Untamed (the axe 5's reflect is too short, especially under quickness), while barely losing any DPS.

20 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Anyone else test anything like this yet? Tell me what you think about it. Although it is not as good as a normal Healbrand, due to not have having on demand party stab or aegis, it can fill in as an alternative HB. You know, for those times when you're waiting 15 minutes for a HB to join and he aint showing up. This can get the job done.

It's good as long as you don't need "frequent" stabs (i.e. Sama CM), or this can be otherwise helped by the Adps (Herald, possibly Druid with some tweaking). Hfb one-tricks though, are only a Fractal problem, as stunning as it is. If they beef up the stab application in Untamed & break the stab monopoly from Druid, this could be truly good.

20 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It also has quite a lot of DPS for a dedicated Heal Quick Support. It can bench easily 10k-12k by itself while doing heal rotations and without boons from the Arena Console in raid room. With an actual group and refined rotational cycles, this build could probably bench 15k+ pretty easily.

"Cele gear" isn't a dedicated "Heal Quick Support". A dedicated one is something closer to full Harrier (or Minstrel if you wanna main tank). Though again, you don't need Celestial to kill let's say, Kanaxai's split Aspects. If you want to "DPS" as a heal, you might as well wanna go look for a no heal party (or squad).

Edited August 31, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[Aaron Forestman.4758]

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

They're talking about staff/staff though.

I'm talking about versions that are more optimized for filling the role of a HB as an alternative.

I'm curious what you consider "optimized" when the staff ambush is the only one that heals and provides permanent protection. We've been running staff/staff because that build makes a full healer out of an untamed rather than something that's worse than being a dedicated healer or a dedicated dps. If healer dps is making or breaking your encounters, it's not the healer's build that's the problem -- it's the dps players.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

It's not "a real reason", since pdps Untamed has been around for longer

I'm talking about optimized metas.

Power Untamed was never a thing. Untamed was only ever listed as meta for condi.

2 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

It's good as long as you don't need "frequent" stabs (i.e. Sama CM), or this can be otherwise helped by the Adps (Herald, possibly Druid with some tweaking)

Druid's stab output is great with Glyph Of Stars. Too many people try to save it for a revive rather than using it for Stability and extra water field.

2 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

If they beef up the stab application in Untamed & break the stab monopoly from Druid, this could be truly good.

It doesn't have party Stability but you can opt to drop the Elite Spirit in favor of the Untamed Elite, which will pulse a great deal of elongated stacked Stability for the Untamed, so its heal cycles do not get interrupted. This is  more important than Stability for the party actually. Anyone who tries to run these Heal Quick Untamed builds, will very quickly see what I'm talking about, when going against any boss that has moderate to heavy CC output. In fact, the more I've been playing it, I would definitely vouch that the Stability off the Untamed Elite is much more important than the Elite Spirit revive for this reason. If Protect Me! is used wisely, it is often enough vs. CCs with decent groups. It can be used quite frequently when Alacrity is incorporated.

2 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

"Cele gear" isn't a dedicated "Heal Quick Support".

Yes it is.

Celestial is just plainly optimized on this build. You do not need any more boon duration & heal stat past what Celestial + Monk Runes/Relic + Transference + Food/Utility provides, which is granting about +43% to outgoing healing with around 1100-1200 heal stat. It's been a long realized reality that pure Harrier on say a Heal Druid, just over-heals in gross ways and creates way too much boon overlap. In this case, it has always been advised to swap out Harrier pieces for Berserker pieces or maybe Zealot, when you learn how to run these builds efficiently, so you can bring a bit of valuable DPS over boon overlap that does nothing at all. There is no reason to have enough boon duration to pump 60s of Regen every 20s while having negligent DPS. It is better to optimize say 20s of Regen every 20s while actually having impactful DPS. And there is no reason to be able to burst heal 60,000 health at the cost of sacking all DPS when you could burst heal 30,000, which is enough to heal anyone to full, while still bringing impactful DPS.

1 hour ago, Aaron Forestman.4758 said:

I'm curious what you consider "optimized" when the staff ambush is the only one that heals and provides permanent protection.

This is silly. All you have to do to provide beyond permanent Protection is to use 1 Staff + Stone Spirit + Invigorating Bond. You want the Aegis and blast finisher from Stone Spirit for obvious reasons. This allows you to bring Warhorn so you can pump more might with the Sun Spirit, as well as nearly permanent Fury uptime. The CC on Warhorn is important for helping break bars, as well as the Warhorn 4 birds, which in conjunction with Staff auto strikes and even Staff 2, compounds so many hits in a small margin of time, that it very very quickly refreshes the Untamed Elite, in conjunction with Alacrity on it, so the Untamed can have usually permanent Stability. This way its heal cycles can't get interrupted. This is very important.

About alternating Staff auto heals: My good bro, the Warhorn 5 is a blast finisher that you are supposed to put on Water Fields, as well as the Stone Spirit's blast, along with the blast from Rending Vines. You have just as much burst healing with Axe/Warhorn Staff as you would Staff Staff. The only difference is Axe/Warhorn has a lot more DPS value. If the Staff 3 & 5 would magically refresh every time you swapped weapons, then there would be argument to use Staff Staff, but they do not. You're choosing between Staff auto unleash and another Staff auto unleash, or a Staff auto unleash with a blast from Warhorn that is also a CC and a Might/Fury buff that lasts like 20-30s, that also provides #4 bird DPS. Also Splitblade and Winter's Bite is just a lot of DPS packed into those 2x strikes, then you can use the time that you would normally use to auto attack to maintain damage, to cycle heals/utility. This is important to note about Support specs. You don't want to get stuck on a weapon side spamming #1 man. You want to use the important skills and then use the rest of the 9s swap timer to toggle class kits/utility skills. Axe/Warhorn is perfect for this. You land the big DPS with 2, 3, 4, buff with 5 while land CC, use rest of 9s timer to toggle other things. With Staff Staff you're spending way too much time spamming 1 while waiting for important skills to come off CD. That's a waste of resources.

1 hour ago, Aaron Forestman.4758 said:

We've been running staff/staff because that build makes a full healer out of an untamed rather than something that's worse than being a dedicated healer or a dedicated dps.

Again, with all the gear I mentioned, you do not need more than Cele stats dedicated for the healing. You just don't. Making a build that over-heals and has tiny DPS is silly.

Also, Staff Staff is relying on some mediocre level of "steady heal output" rather than being able to land an actual full-on big burst heal. This build you guys have posted with Staff Staff at the best has the unleash heal and then a water field cast with Staff 3 on to it and then the pet unleash blast. It then has to wait 9s before even being able to swap to another Staff for a Staff 1 unleash, and then it will still be waiting for CDs on any other water field blasting. The Celestial setup I've posted, can do Staff 1 unleash, water field, Staff 3 blast, unleash pet blast, Stone Spirit blast, swap Warhorn blast. <- This is way more healing potential than your Staff Staff builds. And that doesn't even have to be a single burst, it can be divided into segments or used all at once. Either way, this is just a lot more optimized heal potential than a Staff Staff setup.

1 hour ago, Aaron Forestman.4758 said:

If healer dps is making or breaking your encounters, it's not the healer's build that's the problem -- it's the dps players.

I see what you mean, but I would reverse that quote and say it would be more true to say: "If massive heal output is making or breaking your encounters, this is the problem of the guys who don't know mechanics, not the healer".

As in, when you are playing with T3 fractal players who are trying T4s for their first time as example, you could be running a full Harrier/Minstrel/MonkTrasnference everything, and it won't matter. Those guys will still be getting killed to one shot mechanics, they'll have bad positioning so you can't heal them all at once, they'll get hit so often in something like Mai Trinn, that it won't matter how much you heal, it'll result down to the raw CDs of your skills limiting your ability to keep them alive. So stating for big kitten heals like this is kind like a blackhole that keeps pulling the team's efficiency further into the abyss. These are l2p issues. The answer is not stating for big kitten heals. The answer is the players learning mechanics. In contrast to that example, you look at a good group of CM players. At this level, this is when true end-game builds start sacrificing over-healing in place of additional DPS, because people know mechanics. This is the inevitability in the end, and that is why I devised the build the way that I did. This is especially important for Untamed because unlike a Druid that rarely gets moments to use weapon skill DPS who is always in its super defensive class kit to buff Alac, the Untamed is constantly rotating attacks to keep Quickness active. Having DPS on the Untamed matters, and you only need as much healing as you need, when it comes to actual end-game builds.

If you were to go in-game and actually play test a Cele setup like this amongst people who know mechanics, it seems to be optimal. I'm not saying it is final form meta version, but I would say it is definitely in the right direction.

I'll try to go in-game today and dabble/get more footage of a better benchmark & some CM footage.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[RenneBright.2473]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm talking about optimized metas.

Power Untamed was never a thing. Untamed was only ever listed as meta for condi.

Yes it was, and it still is, pre-Soto & post-Soto, with Strider's Strength, Farsighted+Ferocious Symbiosis buff (November 2022) etc.
 https://dps.report/q2d9-20230710-230913_xera
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Condis Untamed "died" since the Fervent Force nerf to 3s (before being fully replaced by Let Loose).
I'd rather have an Untamed than a SB for instance vs NPNG, if no one else knows/is willing to play the other boons strip classes available.
Pdps Untamed has more utilities than Pdps SB, without much difference in DPS. 

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It doesn't have party Stability but you can opt to drop the Elite Spirit in favor of the Untamed Elite, which will pulse a great deal of elongated stacked Stability for the Untamed, so its heal cycles do not get interrupted. This is  more important than Stability for the party actually. Anyone who tries to run these Heal Quick Untamed builds, will very quickly see what I'm talking about, when going against any boss that has moderate to heavy CC output. In fact, the more I've been playing it, I would definitely vouch that the Stability off the Untamed Elite is much more important than the Elite Spirit revive for this reason. If Protect Me! is used wisely, it is often enough vs. CCs with decent groups. It can be used quite frequently when Alacrity is incorporated.

Frequent party stab mainly matters for Sama CM, or 2 Stacks (or 1 Stack + Aegis) to mitigate the potential overlap of QTP CM's shockwave. Self-stability doesn't matter most of the time, because DPS members of your party/squad expect the healer supp or offensive supp to bring it to the party/squad's sub-group. Stone Spirit is enough for most cases.

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yes it is.

Celestial is just plainly optimized on this build. You do not need any more boon duration & heal stat past what Celestial + Monk Runes/Relic + Transference + Food/Utility provides, which is granting about +43% to outgoing healing with around 1100-1200 heal stat. It's been a long realized reality that pure Harrier on say a Heal Druid, just over-heals in gross ways and creates way too much boon overlap. In this case, it has always been advised to swap out Harrier pieces for Berserker pieces or maybe Zealot, when you learn how to run these builds efficiently, so you can bring a bit of valuable DPS over boon overlap that does nothing at all. There is no reason to have enough boon duration to pump 60s of Regen every 20s while having negligent DPS. It is better to optimize say 20s of Regen every 20s while actually having impactful DPS. And there is no reason to be able to burst heal 60,000 health at the cost of sacking all DPS when you could burst heal 30,000, which is enough to heal anyone to full, while still bringing impactful DPS.

I'm healing fully well as both Herald & Druid, without any healing food/utilities, so you're on the wrong again xP. I've been doing 11 raids CMs a week, and all Fractal CMs, all with a standard raid squad composition. And the decent/fast timers I get with said raid composition isn't thanks to having 1-2 cele healers. I've been running full harrier, or swapping to Minstrel depending on my squad's needs (i.e. tank toughness aggro) without any problems. You honestly have a weird obsession about wanting to absolutely DPS as a healer, even though that's not your priority, let alone your primary role. Your so-called "bit of valuable DPS"'s impact is minimal. You clearly don't know what you're talking about party/squad composition, let alone understanding why you fail your encounters or fail to get decent timers. Given how easy T4s Fractals are (NM), I don't see the relevance of what you're trying to claim here.
The "standard" Qheal Untamed build provided works fine as it is, your obsession of wanting to DPS as a healer though is a problem.
If you want a full DPS party/squad, then go for a no heal party composition. Not a weird, hybrid combo stats armor/trinkets pieces that barely anyone uses in a FC runs lol.

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I see what you mean, but I would reverse that quote and say it would be more true to say: "If massive heal output is making or breaking your encounters, this is the problem of the guys who don't know mechanics, not the healer".

As in, when you are playing with T3 fractal players who are trying T4s for their first time as example, you could be running a full Harrier/Minstrel/MonkTrasnference everything, and it won't matter. Those guys will still be getting killed to one shot mechanics, they'll have bad positioning so you can't heal them all at once, they'll get hit so often in something like Mai Trinn, that it won't matter how much you heal, it'll result down to the raw CDs of your skills limiting your ability to keep them alive. So stating for big kitten heals like this is kind like a blackhole that keeps pulling the team's efficiency further into the abyss. These are l2p issues. The answer is not stating for big kitten heals. The answer is the players learning mechanics. In contrast to that example, you look at a good group of CM players. At this level, this is when true end-game builds start sacrificing over-healing in place of additional DPS, because people know mechanics. This is the inevitability in the end, and that is why I devised the build the way that I did. This is especially important for Untamed because unlike a Druid that rarely gets moments to use weapon skill DPS who is always in its super defensive class kit to buff Alac, the Untamed is constantly rotating attacks to keep Quickness active. Having DPS on the Untamed matters, and you only need as much healing as you need, when it comes to actual end-game builds.

That's not a "L2P" issue if you don't bother having fractal potions (main reason of getting "one shot"). I find it funny you're talking about healing gears here but you failed to address T4 first timers' own builds/gears. It's not a "L2P mechanics" if there is a problem with their gearing. The "true end-game" is about how well you know & can handle most of the mechanics in group's content while keeping up with your group's DPS+sustain, not whether you're running celestial or not on your healer. And again, you fail to understand how to get decent timers in an encounter, and that is certainly not from not having a cele healer in your group. If you don't know why or how, then at least don't blame others for your own wrongdoings, mistakes.

Edited August 31, 2023 by RenneBright.2473

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

Yes it was, and it still is, pre-Soto & post-Soto, with Strider's Strength, Farsighted+Ferocious Symbiosis buff (November 2022) etc.
 https://dps.report/q2d9-20230710-230913_xera
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Condis Untamed "died" since the Fervent Force nerf to 3s (before being fully replaced by Let Loose).
I'd rather have an Untamed than a SB for instance vs NPNG, if no one else knows/is willing to play the other boons strip classes available.
Pdps Untamed has more utilities than Pdps SB, without much difference in DPS.

I'm not saying it's bad, but you're basing that on one guy in some very specific boss encounter. And he was out-DPSed by a Spellbreaker, which is just weird. This goes to show that personal player skill cap accounts for more than the class they play. An excellent player can land higher DPS on a spec that would be predicted to land lower DPS.

Also, I don't remember Power Untamed ever being mentioned on any meta site. If it was, it was mentioned for some ridiculously brief amount of time before it was removed. The build was never popular so let's not act like it was. Despite the ease of running an Untamed power rotation, it was never popular for obvious reasons. I think maybe in the last two years, I could count on one hand the amount of times I seen an Untamed in my CM groups. Soulbeast in almost all other situations just plainly has higher front loaded burst output for most types of boss phases for crunching numbers into the right intervals of time for optimized DPS dealt.

4 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

Frequent party stab mainly matters for Sama CM, or 2 Stacks (or 1 Stack + Aegis) to mitigate the potential overlap of QTP CM's shockwave. Self-stability doesn't matter most of the time, because DPS members of your party/squad expect the healer supp or offensive supp to bring it to the party/squad's sub-group. Stone Spirit is enough for most cases.

Yes and in that situation you can bring the Elite Spirit for revive. But when you are not with a party that is organizing that well, or aren't even in raids/strikes at all but rather other content, the elite self stability is important. In fractals as example, there are a lot of times that the party will get caught by CC juggles, and if you do not have stability to be able to stand still and spam heals through that, it'll usually result in GGing and a waste of time. Just dodge rolling and knowing mechanics isn't enough. Its' the aspect that you can stand still with that 50% damage reduction & stab through an attack, and survive/be able to maintenance them before they get wiped. 

4 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

I'm healing fully well as both Herald & Druid, without any healing food/utilities, so you're on the wrong again xP. I've been doing 11 raids CMs a week, and all Fractal CMs, all with a standard raid squad composition. And the decent/fast timers I get with said raid composition isn't thanks to having 1-2 cele healers. I've been running full harrier, or swapping to Minstrel depending on my squad's needs (i.e. tank toughness aggro) without any problems. You honestly have a weird obsession about wanting to absolutely DPS as a healer, even though that's not your priority, let alone your primary role. Your so-called "bit of valuable DPS"'s impact is minimal. You clearly don't know what you're talking about party/squad composition, let alone understanding why you fail your encounters or fail to get decent timers. Given how easy T4s Fractals are (NM), I don't see the relevance of what you're trying to claim here.
The "standard" Qheal Untamed build provided works fine as it is, your obsession of wanting to DPS as a healer though is a problem.
If you want a full DPS party/squad, then go for a no heal party composition. Not a weird, hybrid combo stats armor/trinkets pieces that barely anyone uses in a FC runs lol.

Hooga booga insults, ok gotcha.

Look man, let me say it again for you:

Again, with all the gear I mentioned, you do not need more than Cele stats dedicated for the healing. You just don't. Making a build that over-heals and has tiny DPS is silly.

Also, Staff Staff is relying on some mediocre level of "steady heal output" rather than being able to land an actual full-on big burst heal. This build you guys have posted with Staff Staff at the best has the unleash heal and then a water field cast with Staff 3 on to it and then the pet unleash blast. It then has to wait 9s before even being able to swap to another Staff for a Staff 1 unleash, and then it will still be waiting for CDs on any other water field blasting. The Celestial setup I've posted, can do Staff 1 unleash, water field, Staff 3 blast, unleash pet blast, Stone Spirit blast, swap Warhorn blast. <- This is way more healing potential than your Staff Staff builds. And that doesn't even have to be a single burst, it can be divided into segments or used all at once. Either way, this is just a lot more optimized heal potential than a Staff Staff setup.

4 hours ago, RenneBright.2473 said:

That's not a "L2P" issue if you don't bother having fractal potions (main reason of getting "one shot"). I find it funny you're talking about healing gears here but you failed to address T4 first timers' own builds/gears. It's not a "L2P mechanics" if there is a problem with their gearing. The "true end-game" is about how well you know & can handle most of the mechanics in group's content while keeping up with your group's DPS+sustain, not whether you're running celestial or not on your healer. And again, you fail to understand how to get decent timers in an encounter, and that is certainly not from not having a cele healer in your group. If you don't know why or how, then at least don't blame others for your own wrongdoings, mistakes.

Riiiight.

You sound like someone who still GGs at MAMA in 2023.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

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