Things that actually need nerfs.

[Deadmoose.6594]

As a high G3 exclusive chrono player, I disagree. I'm good with where chrono is at, I think too many classes just got too tanky but still do insane damage in comparison. If I fight anyone like this, I'm going to die. Chrono is only good at team fighting, rarely 1v1. If your team isn't team fighting, chrono is pretty useless and an utterly complete pushover. If your team knows how to utilize a chrono, the benefits and damage can be insane and cause a blowout win so I can see why it seems like chrono is frustrating to play against. Essentially if you always focus a chrono first your team is likely to win. To me that isn't OP at all.

[Flowki.7194]

53 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

As a high G3 exclusive chrono player, I disagree. I'm good with where chrono is at, I think too many classes just got too tanky but still do insane damage in comparison. If I fight anyone like this, I'm going to die. Chrono is only good at team fighting, rarely 1v1. If your team isn't team fighting, chrono is pretty useless and an utterly complete pushover. If your team knows how to utilize a chrono, the benefits and damage can be insane and cause a blowout win so I can see why it seems like chrono is frustrating to play against. Essentially if you always focus a chrono first your team is likely to win. To me that isn't OP at all.

Ive also played a fair bit of chrono to see its strenghts and weaknesses.

 

The only reason chrono feels ''weak'' when pressured is becuase of the casual pug. In an organised team, a high mobility spec pushing into your back line to get to chrono would get punished instantly.. or have to get out. That doesnt happen much in pug, so a high mobile class can push your back line unpunished more of the time. But even then, its not hard to escape to around 3000 units on mesmer, with TP+stealth+defensive pistol stun+2x invuln (thats why I use stealth instead of rift, to escape back line pushers).

 

Even still, there are plenty of times when you can use your newb team as meat shields and nuke down players to win games on chrono. You can't do that on a moderate sustain dps, things like hammer cata, you just get overwhelmed by dps and lose.

 

Chrono is one of the specs I would put up as having an issue with. Its more about the range it can attack from+reliable 3kunit escape. You can't always focus a chrono.. becuase what if they have an SB?, or a scrapper?.. somebody is getting a free cast game.. and it noramlly ends up being the chrono, due to how easily it can completely escape to 3k and theirs not a thing you can do about it. That is aside from a thief.. nothing can escape a thief ;/.. but what I do with thiefs now, is I kite them back to their own spawn to waste their time (if they are good), which stops them capping or bacapping near so quickly. Thats about all you can do if your team don't help. But thats just 1 real threat.. aside from that chrono gets a lot of free casting, or forces mobile players to isolate themselves, which can backfire on them a lot (I mark target them instantly).

Edited September 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

Power Chrono is one of the highest skill ceiling specs in the game and it is really hard to play it at a high level. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:16 AM, Libera Simio.1592 said:

As a low skill player (S3/G1) I will say that Untamed is much easier for me to play than chrono and vindi while having more sustain, allowing for a large amount of damage and easy access to mobility. I have even made my own Untamed builds that I win games on, almost every other class when I make my own builds they are completely awful and end in several terrible games. I think the class is pretty easy, hammer goes crazy. Most chronos I see in my games are not that good, most vindis I see are not that good. I only think classes should be toned down when a low tier player player can pick them up and start demolishing players of similar skill regularly. Just my opinion. In my experience forest fort and sword 2+3 allow you to be in a terrible situation that would surely get you rolled like oats on the other two classes stated here and just get out for free. Unlike a thief the high mobility comes with the ability to eat some hits as well. I don't think the intention is for some classes to have the ability to tank damage, deal good damage, and then also have access to wild mobility. In my experience on the other classes you generally get two out of three best case scenario. If you have good damage and mobility you are squishy. If you have sustain and mobile you do not deal that much damage. If you have sustain and deal solid damage you don't have much in the ways of mobility. If a class were to have access to all three I think it should be more difficult to pull off than untamed. I could be missing something though maybe other classes have the same access to sustain, damage and mobility in one build and are easy enough to pull off for a less experienced player.

As someone who has experience playing at the top 10% of other games ladders (Halo 3, CS, OW, Apex) I don't think very difficult to execute classes especially ones that rely on team work to shine should be nerfed because people that got to their rank relying on "cheesier" strategies don't know how to deal with it. I don't really know enough about how chrono and vindi perform in upper levels or how team reliant they are., I do know I struggle to just pick up and play them and people in my games rarely do amazing on them unlike Untamed. Untamed seems to just work fairly well regardless of team coordination and requiring a low skill floor due to the low risk of have forest fortification and the sword movement, if you opt to run S/W and GS then you have even more movement but in my experience less damage than hammer and still maintains solid damage capabilities not to mention CCs on the pet while you are running away.  It just seems kinda wild how much it has access to with minimal risk.

If I am very wrong about something I would appreciate a well articulated response pointing out what I am lacking an understanding of so I can learn.

Yea well Untamed is mostly ranged dmg, so it makes sense. It also has more resustain, defensive CDs, and condi cleanse. Untamed(power) is all about getting max value from your pet while you kite around, which is easier to pull off than chrono. Chrono needs melee range for its burst and layers a bunch of insta casts and fast casts via quickness in a short window, all while being glassy as kitten. You're right, chrono is def harder to play mechanically. Both are up there though. Untamed is more about finesse. 

[dead.7638]

Complexity in this game is about out smarting another player, by using knowledge of terrain and positioning will give you an edge they never saw coming.   Knowing how to operate vs another spec to keep distance or use close proximity to mess with los and obstacle that can completely shut down builds.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 hours ago, Dickinson.7368 said:

This.
I never understood the logic of people requesting face-roll builds to have the same power/reward cap as hard to play builds.

It's not really hard to understand. People just don't think their class is faceroll, and think other people have faceroll classes.

Hard to play is not synonymous with complex, and nobody can agree on what 'faceroll' is, just that it leads to unearned wins.

I consider power zerker hard to play because of how simple it is, for example. The same attributes that make it easy to pick up make it easy to avoid. Some other classes like Nade scrapper and Power chrono are more complicated, but produce results more easily once the flowchart is memorized, because a lot of their setup does not require player interaction (and in the case of power chrono, benefits in the absence of it.)

Someone may disagree with that and consider power zerker faceroll because if you get hit by...say, gunflame, you can be deleted instantly, or if you get hit by hammer -at all- by a player that knows what those buttons do you can be trapped in a pinball game forever. They may also think that their "continuum split-phantasmal berserker-mirrorblade-split second-mind stab-" flowchart is high execution, along with that.

Lots of people think that anything that beats them is busted, and the things they beat are balanced and had a fair shot of beating them, but they were just more skilled than the person playing that class.

Nobody is ever 100% right on their opinion regarding those things, though.

The only thing that can be agreed upon is that if you play a build well, you should get some measure of reward for doing that, regardless of what the build is. We can let the people who get hit by X say it was faceroll or busted as long as the person that threw  X has a reasonable counter to their playstyle. That argument will never have a clear winner, and most of the time the argument stems from something the person with a grievance had the means to avoid, but didn't.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Lots of people think that anything that beats them is busted, and the things they beat are balanced and had a fair shot of beating them, but they were just more skilled than the person playing that class.

Nobody is ever 100% right on their opinion regarding those things, though.

The only thing that can be agreed upon is that if you play a build well, you should get some measure of reward for doing that, regardless of what the build is.

Amen.

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Power Chrono is one of the highest skill ceiling specs in the game and it is really hard to play it at a high level. 

Highest skill ceiling how? it is not the only spec that can reset abilitys. Split is also best used with burst, becuase thats your job, its a go out on your shield spec. I think you are confusing the lack of ability to deal with sustained pressure with difficulty. Lack of tools leads to loss of efficiency in X situation, it has nothing to do with difficulty, limitation is a better word. For example, if I kite a melee warrior to death on ranged, is warrior now the hardest spec in game? no, its simply a limitation of gimping yourself to melee range only. When you play chrono, do it knowing you are gimping the ability to take prolonged pressure. The tradeoff for that, is the amount of burst you can do, and thats where my argument comes in. Chrono burst is not hard, and not risky to do in a lot of matchups. The only things that consistantly scare me are thieves and 1700-+ unit rangers. When I play something like hammer cata, every dps is a threat, becuase a mistake in my dmg output>pressure, cannot be softened with the luxury of being at 1200.