Mechanical Genius is way to punishing and cumbersome

[Theonord.6359]

It's absolutely ruining the Mechanist speccs for me ( I play Heal/condi mech). Having the radius being only 360 is VERY punishing imo. And it doeasn't feel fair to have such a restriction, especially when it's nigh impossible to keep track of your mechs whereabouts when there are just a couple of ppl around you, let alone 50+ doing Meta events etc.

I propose to either remove this unfair restriction or at least increase the radius to 600-900.

Ps. I understand the reason for it's initial implementation, but I don't think it's fair to screw over everyone just because of an unintended playstyle.  

[jason.1083]

They can just make the mech stay within that radius by default at all times unless the player specifically targets something outside of that and commands the mech to attack that, so healers can easily just not use the attack command at all and thus never loose the buff, would be the same for DPS unless they send the mech off to fight something else.

That way you can always decide when you loose the buff. 

 

That ofcourse includes the random movements of the mech that make it rush a football field away and then come back, none of that stuff, the mech would act if like there's a wall at the edge of the MG buff radius. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by jason.1083

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Theonord.6359 said:

It's absolutely ruining the Mechanist speccs for me ( I play Heal/condi mech). Having the radius being only 360 is VERY punishing imo. And it doeasn't feel fair to have such a restriction, especially when it's nigh impossible to keep track of your mechs whereabouts when there are just a couple of ppl around you, let alone 50+ doing Meta events etc.

I don't agree that it's somehow nigh impossible to keep track of the mech when there are a couple of ppl around you. In big zergs it might be an issue, but in that case you can always use personal marker or anet could add a constant marker on our own mech to increase the visibility.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

MG needs to be removed. This goes completly against the concept of having a pet . Its initial implementation was completely flawed to begin with but despite MG Anet kept nerfing Mechanist and in the end we have a spec with a pet that handle poorly and punish yourself for not being accurate with that approximative control.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

MG needs to be removed. This goes completly against the concept of having a pet

No, it doesn't. It just focuses on the mech control instead of it being a passive turret following you wherever you go to the point where it might as well be invisible to its "owner".

Edited September 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Alcatraznc.3869]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it doesn't. It just focuses on the mech control instead of it being a passive turret following you wherever you go to the point where it might as well be invisible to its "owner".

 

Being punished for not attacking next to your pet IS against the concept of playing a pet class. You might as well just play any other spec in that case so you can get rid of all the drawback of a pet class but also get back all the power you lost because of the pet. 

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Being punished for not attacking next to your pet IS against the concept of playing a pet class. You might as well just play any other spec in that case so you can get rid of all the drawback of a pet class but also get back all the power you lost because of the pet. 

If you want the pet to tank for you, you can do the majority of the damage anyways. If you want to tank for the pet, you can still have pet within the mg range. If you want to do whatever, do whatever. Maximizing mech dps will require from you an active interaction with it. That means if you want that type of gameplay you can't play anything else. But if you want a different type of gameplay than that then sure, you can pick one of many others throughout the available classes and builds. Nothing here somehow "goes against the idea of having a pet". You're free to play something that doesn't require any interaction with mech and gives the full power to you as one character if that's what you want, I don't see an issue with that.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Vandal.5621]

Quote

Being punished for not attacking next to your pet IS against the concept of playing a pet class. You might as well just play any other spec in that case so you can get rid of all the drawback of a pet class but also get back all the power you lost because of the pet.

I agree. There needs to be a shift in power from the Mech to the Engi. The point of a pet class is that the pet is detached from you. If you're required to stack with your pet at all times, then it's not really a pet. It's a self-cast spell with extra steps. I want to be able to use Pistol/Pistol Condi Mech with the blade arms, but that requires me to be in melee range with my Mech. Why bother using ranged weapons if I'm required to stand on top of my melee mech?

The thing that's the biggest problem is that the Mech does too much damage while the Engi does not enough damage. Mech damage needs to be nerfed while making Mechanist Traits give damage bonuses to the Engineer. That way, DPS is more reliant on the Engineer's rotation rather than just being a passive DPS that just relies on staying near your pet.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Vandal.5621
Added a quote

[Alcatraznc.3869]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you want the pet to tank for you, you can do the majority of the damage anyways. If you want to tank for the pet, you can still have pet within the mg range. If you want to do whatever, do whatever. Maximizing mech dps will require from you an active interaction with it. That means if you want that type of gameplay you can't play anything else. But if you want a different type of gameplay than that then sure, you can pick one of many others throughout the available classes and builds. Nothing here somehow "goes against the idea of having a pet". You're free to play something that doesn't require any interaction with mech and gives the full power to you as one character if that's what you want, I don't see an issue with that.

 

If I play P/P condi Mechanist and stay at 500 range while the pet goes melee I get punished for using a mechanist skill because the pet is outside the range of MG. This is not "active interaction" this is simply babysitting or get punished because I am not rewarded at all for working next to the mechanist at all. Either I exist within the mech MG so it performs normally or I dont and my mech (indirectly me) gets punished by having his skill have 50% longer CD.  There is a reason why Soulbeast is remains a very popular ranger spec.

 

4 hours ago, Vandal.5621 said:

The thing that's the biggest problem is that the Mech does too much damage while the Engi does not enough damage. Mech damage needs to be nerfed while making Mechanist Traits give damage bonuses to the Engineer. That way, DPS is more reliant on the Engineer's rotation rather than just being a passive DPS that just relies on staying near your pet.

 

You want to be careful with that. The whole point of having a pet as a class spec is that the pet is still relevant in some way or another. If Anet hard nerf Mechanist and give back the the nerfed power to the Engineer and your pet ends up being irrelevant, people will simply no longer play Mechanist. I mean why bother micromanaging a pet that barely brings anything when I can just play another spec that doesnt have a pet but do Mechanist job with better result ? As of right now, only PDPS Mechanist is lagging behind, Condi Mechanist and Support mech have good performances. 

 

Also Anet conveniently forgot Engineer when they decided to remove all the tradeoff of elite spec. Vindicator got back its 2 dodges, Chronomancer got its old F4 back, Druid got its pet stats back but Engineer ? Scrapper and Holosmith still have to trade their F5 skill and Mechanist still has to trade all our toolbelt skill even when the pet is out. 

[Gendalfs.7521]

Power Rifle hit like a wet noodle and if I want more damage I switch to full melee spec with hammer, but even then damage lacks compared to other classes.

Anet could really buff rifle and hammer.

And ofc get rid of MG or expand MG range alot (600 at least) and then give back timer.

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

If I play P/P condi Mechanist and stay at 500 range while the pet goes melee I get punished for using a mechanist skill because the pet is outside the range of MG. This is not "active interaction" this is simply babysitting or get punished because I am not rewarded at all for working next to the mechanist at all. Either I exist within the mech MG so it performs normally or I dont and my mech (indirectly me) gets punished by having his skill have 50% longer CD. 

This is an active interaction. Why are you supposed to have the exact same power but with more total hp base and 2 completely disconnected points of damage output? If you want "all the power on you" then play something without a mech.

7 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

There is a reason why Soulbeast is remains a very popular ranger spec.

If soulbeast gameplay is what you want then play soulbeast.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Kuma.1503]

MG exists solely to punish afk rifle mechs. 

All anet needed to do was shift damage onto Blunderbuss and make Rifle burst a chain. This would have solved the AFK at 1200 range issue because players would need to be close to make use of blunderbuss. Now that they're close, needing to be careful not to drop the chain gives them something else to manage. 

This would have added more skill-floor than MG without adding a clunky mechanic that also effectively reduces the skill cap of the spec. Splitting from your pet to be in two places at once adds skill optimization to Mechanist. This is the type of gameplay that both justifies the existence of a pet, and gives players space to show mastery over pet micromanagement. Discouraging this gameplay punishes rifle mech players, but it also dumbs down the spec. 

There have been many better solutions suggested. Whether we think Rifle Mech was unhealthy for the game or not, MG needs to go. It is a flawed solution that raises more problems than it solves. 

 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

15 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This is an active interaction. Why are you supposed to have the exact same power but with more total hp base and 2 completely disconnected points of damage output? If you want "all the power on you" then play something without a mech.

 Being able to attack from 2 separate point IS the purpose of a pet class. In our current PvE, it doesnt matter much because 95% of the content is just stack at melee range and the 5% remaining are anecdotal at best. But in any PvP this instantly matter, especially for a spec that removes everything that makes you an engineer and put a pet instead. Being punished for not using skill next to your Mechanist is not an active interaction at all. Casting crisis zone to dispell condition is an active interaction. Casting barrier signet when there are incoming projectile is an active interaction. Moving next to your mech so it can work as it is supposed to work is not active interaction.

15 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If soulbeast gameplay is what you want then play soulbeast.

No what I want is Mechanist to work as a proper pet spec. Not a worse version of Engineer that has to babysit a malfunctioning pet.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Being able to attack from 2 separate point IS the purpose of a pet class.

I think you missed some keywords in what you've quoted there: "This is an active interaction. Why are you supposed to have the exact same power but with more total hp base and 2 completely disconnected points of damage output?". I didn't say you somehow shouldn't be able to -and you are able to.

5 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

No what I want is Mechanist to work as a proper pet spec. Not a worse version of Engineer that has to babysit a malfunctioning pet.

It does work as a proper pet spec. And you don't have to babysit anything nor is it a malfunctioning pet (at least not in the context of what is being discussed here, because bugs are still bugs). If you don't want soulbeast gameplay, stop repeating soulbeast I guess. And it's not a "worse version of engineer", it's a different version with an intentionally differentiating gameplay pattern. If you just want engineer then just play engineer instead of mechanist.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Efaicia.3672]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:17 AM, Theonord.6359 said:

It's absolutely ruining the Mechanist speccs for me ( I play Heal/condi mech). Having the radius being only 360 is VERY punishing imo. And it doeasn't feel fair to have such a restriction, especially when it's nigh impossible to keep track of your mechs whereabouts

I have the "Return to me" command hotkeyed to an easy to reach key and i obsessively spam it. Mech is large and obnoxious and does not want to be left alone. Kind of like a great dane. big, dumb and in the way.  spam that Return to me button!

[Arantheal.7396]

The original problem was people in PvP getting salty about ranged mechs staying up on ledges and shooting into the pitfights, while the engi could dance around them.
So why not tie the effects of mechanical genious to the only trait that caused this problem originally - ranged mechs, and leave melee mechs to function like the independent pets going after targets, like they're supposed to be, either with just the classical effects of MG, just incuring a stat decrease beyond 600, or allowing them to go full ham like any other ranger pet.

keeping the leash to 360 for ranged mechs is totally fine in PvP, but for WvW it should be widened to 600 again, and have no range limit at all for PvE, because there is no salty player at the receiving end of free range mechs.

For PvE, I completely reject the argument of such a leash being necessary "to actively engage with your mech" as no other pet class has this kitten going for it, especially not such harsh cd increases. But if you want players to think about mech placement, and value the effort required to track it constantly during meta events and boss fights, you can do little adjustments here and there, to accomplish that.
a few examples of such changes, for PvE only:
rectifier signet: won't heal your mech passively beyond 600 range, active heal still works, but with 20% reduction beyond 600 range.
barrier signet: pulses 7 times if the mech is within 600 range, and now reflects projectiles, instead of just destroying them.
Force signet: increase defiance break on you and the mech to 200, if the mech is within 600 range
Shift Signet: copy boons with 50% reduced durration to your mech if your mech is beyond 600 range

superconducting signet: activates around your mech as normal, but if he is within 600 range, also activates a field around you that applies vulnerability, chill and poison. Strike damage on both fields is reduced by 33%. if you mech is inactive, the signet activation behaves as normal.

overclock signet: if it's on cd, and you mech gets killed within 600 range of you, the cd is reduced by 15 seconds.

You can do similar changes to the mech traits, with the logic being, that you get small punishments / small rewards from activations, if you track your mech, and learn to make it a habbit to check your mechs position, before you commit to a skill activation, instead of getting punished with drastic cd increases, just because you derped for a second, or activated a skill too early, before your mech was in range.
Tie these changes to a decently sized UI Element that switches colors (red / green for out of range / in range or an appropriate equivalent for colorblind people using colorblind mode) to really drive home the point that your mech performs better / at full capacity if you keep it close, while allowing people to check for their current range status easily, especially in open world meta events, where this dim blue circle gets completely burried under visual noise from other players around you.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:54 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

I think you missed some keywords in what you've quoted there: "This is an active interaction. Why are you supposed to have the exact same power but with more total hp base and 2 completely disconnected points of damage output?". I didn't say you somehow shouldn't be able to -and you are able to.

Why are you not supposed to have the power you should be getting then ? Because it would be OP ? We are already nerfed in the form of not having access to our toolbelt whether the mech is on field or not. The AI suffer from AI pathing being exploitable due to their clunkiness and frankly old design. Again, in instanced PvE this is irrelevant most of the time because almost all content can be done at melee range, it is an annoyance but it's still a pain in the butt for absolutely no reason. In PvP/WvW bringing a Mechanist is simply trolling your team. 

On 9/19/2023 at 12:54 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

It does work as a proper pet spec. And you don't have to babysit anything nor is it a malfunctioning pet (at least not in the context of what is being discussed here, because bugs are still bugs). If you don't want soulbeast gameplay, stop repeating soulbeast I guess. And it's not a "worse version of engineer", it's a different version with an intentionally differentiating gameplay pattern. If you just want engineer then just play engineer instead of mechanist.

At this point talking to a wall may yield more result. You can refuse to acknowledge that having to stay next to the mech to have function it like it should function is not babysitting but it doesnt change the reality. If we want the mech to be fully functionable we have to stay next to it. No we dont have to do anything in particular, just stay next to it, like a babysitter watching over a kid. So yes, it IS a worse Engineer because it has no access to toolkit and yes it HAS to babysit a pet so the pet IS malfunctioning. 

[Sobx.1758]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:21 PM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Why are you not supposed to have the power you should be getting then ? Because it would be OP ? We are already nerfed in the form of not having access to our toolbelt whether the mech is on field or not. The AI suffer from AI pathing being exploitable due to their clunkiness and frankly old design. Again, in instanced PvE this is irrelevant most of the time because almost all content can be done at melee range, it is an annoyance but it's still a pain in the butt for absolutely no reason. In PvP/WvW bringing a Mechanist is simply trolling your team. 

At this point talking to a wall may yield more result. You can refuse to acknowledge that having to stay next to the mech to have function it like it should function is not babysitting but it doesnt change the reality. If we want the mech to be fully functionable we have to stay next to it. No we dont have to do anything in particular, just stay next to it, like a babysitter watching over a kid. So yes, it IS a worse Engineer because it has no access to toolkit and yes it HAS to babysit a pet so the pet IS malfunctioning. 

I find your mention about "talking to a wall yeilding more result" a bit ironic considering whatever you're asking for here was already explained. 
But if you think it's just worse engineer then play other engineer specs. Plenty of people disagree and play mech because of what it is.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[TexZero.7910]

If only engineer's had a real weapon.

It would solve the entire problem with balance thrashing around "AI".

[Gendalfs.7521]

11 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

If only engineer's had a real weapon.

Rifle was quite OK before nerfhammer. Mace was ok before confusion nerfhammer.

[TexZero.7910]

Just now, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Rifle was quite OK before nerfhammer. Mace was ok before confusion nerfhammer.

I stand by what i said. See you using past tense here.

The same can be said of Sword and Shield and will likely be said soon of Hammer. Lord knows what absurdly undertuned state shortbow is gonna release in because "we have kits/turrets/mech"