Pay to play??? T2 & T3 rifts!!

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Please save me from a fate worse than death.  Can someone explain to me why rifts are so much worse than other open world content.  Is it the repetition?

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Please save me from a fate worse than death.  Can someone explain to me why rifts are so much worse than other open world content.  Is it the repetition?

Repetition, the fact that most time is not spend on them, but on running to them, the absolutely staggering number of essences required, and lack of rewards outside of that one specific currency for legendary armor. All of this taken together create a really depressing package.

[vares.8457]

If you don’t like doing rifts but want the legendary armor, you can always do raids, WvW or PvP to get it. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Please save me from a fate worse than death.  Can someone explain to me why rifts are so much worse than other open world content.  Is it the repetition?

While the claim is that it's about "repetition that makes it boring", people wanting ow armor literally proposed "tagging world bosses" and "opening jp chests" over extended periods of time (year/s). So the way I see it, the main issue(?) here isn't with "boring/repetitve content", but about active gameplay, because instead of parking at world bosses (to log in, tag, log out on timer) and final jp chests, the players are required to move between the rifts.
If that's not it, as far as I'm aware nobody was able to explain how the previously proposed ways of ow acquisition were supposed to be any more exciting and non-repetitive -probably because they were not.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

While the claim is that it's about "repetition that makes it boring", people wanting ow armor literally proposed "tagging world bosses" and "opening jp chests" over extended periods of time (year/s). So the way I see it, the main issue(?) here isn't with "boring/repetitve content", but about active gameplay, because instead of parking at world bosses (to log in, tag, log out on timer) and final jp chests, the players are required to move between the rifts.
If that's not it, as far as I'm aware nobody was able to explain how the previously proposed ways of ow acquisition were supposed to be any more exciting and non-repetitive -probably because they were not.

They could've come up with all kinds of things. It was always going to be something that would be repetitive, but it didn't need to be as boring as it turned out to be. The pre-boss events are just a few minutes of whacking hp sponges. Boring. Waiting for the boss to be drawn out and become active. Another 10 seconds of boredom.

And then the boss fights. These are pretty okay. Some of them have nice mechanics. They're totally ineffective against a full squad zerg, but with smaller numbers, these are pretty decent fights.

The travel times were inevitable, there was never going to be a non-stop hyper efficient farming fest. But the travel time combined with the boring pre-boss fights is just unbearable.

I think they should've gone with an activity that happens less frequently, with multiple enemies that actually put up a fight. Better rewards to make up for the fewer engagements. Perhaps with an item you can upgrade at a very high cost to get better and more essences, to share the resource burden among all those going for the armor instead of people (like me) leeching.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Repetition, the fact that most time is not spend on them, but on running to them, the absolutely staggering number of essences required, and lack of rewards outside of that one specific currency for legendary armor. All of this taken together create a really depressing package.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

While the claim is that it's about "repetition that makes it boring", people wanting ow armor literally proposed "tagging world bosses" and "opening jp chests" over extended periods of time (year/s). So the way I see it, the main issue(?) here isn't with "boring/repetitve content", but about active gameplay, because instead of parking at world bosses (to log in, tag, log out on timer) and final jp chests, the players are required to move between the rifts.
If that's not it, as far as I'm aware nobody was able to explain how the previously proposed ways of ow acquisition were supposed to be any more exciting and non-repetitive -probably because they were not.

Thanks, mates!

So, I guess that the people who asked for OW Lege Armor "no matter how grindy" and the people complaining about it being grindy to get the needed currency are not the same people.  Sounds like these rifts differ from most world bosses in that you can't know exactly where/when they will take place.

Back to making WvW armor, then.  😁

[Astralporing.1957]

26 minutes ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

So, I guess that the people who asked for OW Lege Armor "no matter how grindy" and the people complaining about it being grindy to get the needed currency are not the same people. 

Yes. The oft-brought people that mentioned grinding for years single type boring content are the very same people that protested from OW legendary armor ever happening. The argument was, i believe, unless it is so boring and grindy noone sane will do it anyway. Which is exactly what we've got.

Basically, Anet followed advice of players that from the beginning intended this idea to fail.

If you were to look into those same threads and read the more serious suggestions, you'd see they advocated more varied content covering a variety of already existing OW content (with ability to choose the specific approaches, the same way WvW players can choose which WvW content they want to do when pursuing Legendary armor from their mode). So, basically, more like WvW approach, just in OW. Practically nobody asked for Anet to introduce a boring, non-rewarding content existing for the sole purpose of offering legendary armor component, and making farming that content thousands of times the primary grind factor. At least noone that truly wanted the OW legendary armor to get introduced, at least.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The oft-brought people that mentioned grinding for years single type boring content are the very same people that protested from OW legendary armor ever happening. The argument was, i believe, unless it is so boring and grindy noone sane will do it anyway.

Not really, the ideas about repeatedly grinding that boring stuff for extended periods of time were coming from people who did want that option for themsevels.

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

(...)unless it is so boring and grindy noone sane will do it anyway. Which is exactly what we've got.

And this is also false.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[ugrakarma.9416]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Basically, Anet followed advice of players that from the beginning intended this idea to fail.

fail? my spare krypt motivations sell well. 

also mat sink is working, value of stuff rising up.

i have seem ppl doing drizzlewood cost near 3hr meta everyday for 6 months++ after launch of 2nd map.... believe-me,, the krytps essences farming is a cup of tea.

also rift hunt is very more flexible, then meta trains, if u get bored just do anything else.

Edited September 18, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Repetition, the fact that most time is not spend on them, but on running to them...

Agreed.  I logged in this afternoon thinking I'd do some rift hunting and it felt like doing dragon bash in lornar's pass.  After arriving too late at more than a few rifts, I gave up.  I'm not sure about the cost complaints, but the actual hunts are not fun game play.

[Hesione.9412]

8 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

[snip]

That is probably the logics here. With even the easiest JP added to the amount of tasks there still would be people popping up complaining that it is impossible to complete with their physical condition. (Though ... an option to add certain other stuff where grind was still possible as alternative ... ? Maybe that could work. Do JP and you have to do 10 less rifts and people that can't do the JP cause of physical handicaps can just join a few more T3 rift commanders auto attacking the boss. And everyone is happy.)

Don't bring people with disabilities into this. Game inaccessibility for us is unrelated to what you were talking about. We "complain" because the developers don't seem to test for disability accessibility in some aspects of the game. We also spend a LOT of time trying to do something before mentioning our problem in the forums. In some cases, too long and we trigger pain etc. Just leave us out of this.

[Hesione.9412]

12 minutes ago, PepeLePewPew.2107 said:

Agreed.  I logged in this afternoon thinking I'd do some rift hunting and it felt like doing dragon bash in lornar's pass.  After arriving too late at more than a few rifts, I gave up.  I'm not sure about the cost complaints, but the actual hunts are not fun game play.

Yep, this is a problem I've encountered as well. Turn up in time to see people closing the rift.

[Sobx.1758]

39 minutes ago, PepeLePewPew.2107 said:

Agreed.  I logged in this afternoon thinking I'd do some rift hunting and it felt like doing dragon bash in lornar's pass.  After arriving too late at more than a few rifts, I gave up.  I'm not sure about the cost complaints, but the actual hunts are not fun game play.

26 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Yep, this is a problem I've encountered as well. Turn up in time to see people closing the rift.

Are you sure you don't try to join rather late? The pre-events significantly stall the rift bosses, there really should be enough time for other players to reach before the boss appears.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Vayne.8563]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:43 AM, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

People are never going to agree about what makes a casual player. I tend to have a very liberal interpretation about what makes someone a "casual", but someone doing this "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_armor" SIX times is not casual in my book. Forget about the essences, the 300 provision tokens alone require an intent and determination that doesn't strike me as causal at all.

Six times over how long a period. Casual doesn't have to mean you don't play a lot. Casual means you approach the game casually. You're not interested in min maxing or competitive content. You don't really plan what you do. Maybe you do a bit of farming in the form of cutting down trees you pass. Maybe you're just doing zone complete on multiple alts because you find that fun. Maybe you're just messing around in jumping puzzles without any real end goal in mind.  Casual people can eventually get stuff just by the fact that they keep playing without burnining out. A  lot of the causals I know only play this game and no other. But there's no way you could identify them as hard core.

One guy in my guild had never done a fractal, or a dugeon, never mind a raid or a strike. Doesn't have the griffon. Doesn't have a bunch of alts. He also never had more than 5 gold at any given time on his account, until he started running with me. He only played a few hours a week and he's gotten legendaries. I'm really not sure why you think this is beyond a casual. It'll just take years. So what?

Edited September 18, 2023 by Vayne.8563
sp

[Manasa Devi.7958]

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Six times over how long a period. Casual doesn't have to mean you don't play a lot. Casual means you approach the game casually. You're not interested in min maxing or competitive content. You don't really plan what you do. Maybe you do a bit of farming in the form of cutting down trees you pass. Maybe you're just doing zone complete on multiple alts because you find that fun. Maybe you're just messing around in jumping puzzles without any real end goal in mind.  Casual people can eventually get stuff just by the fact that they keep playing without burnining out. A  lot of the causals I know only play this game and no other. But there's no way you could identify them as hard core.

One guy in my guild had never done a fractal, or a dugeon, never mind a raid or a strike. Doesn't have the griffon. Doesn't have a bunch of alts. He also never had more than 5 gold at any given time on his account, until he started running with me. He only played a few hours a week and he's gotten legendaries. I'm really not sure why you think this is beyond a casual. It'll just take years. So what?

The activities required contradict your description of what you consider casual play. You can't approach the enormous shopping list caually. You do need to plan what you do. You won't get there by cutting down some trees. You won't get there by messing around in jumping puzzles. You'll never get there if you have no real goal in mind. You need very particular tasks performed ad nauseam, every move planned or you won't get there. You won't casually come into possession of 300 provisioner tokens. Most of the tasks will never happen if you play casually. You'll need to play focused and with intent, performing a lot of busywork that can hardly be classified under "just playing", like the aforementioned provisioner tokens. Focus and intent are the polar opposites of casual. I can't believe I need to argue this. Acquiring open world legendary armor is as far from "casual" as content can get.

[vares.8457]

9 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

So, I guess that the people who asked for OW Lege Armor "no matter how grindy" and the people complaining about it being grindy to get the needed currency are not the same people.

Not really. The same few people who wanted open world legendary armor no matter how grindy are now crying 24/7 that rifts are too grindy. That’s why I and many others said that open world legendary armor is not a good idea. 
But what they ignore is the fact that no one is forced to get the new legendary armor. There are three other ways to get it. 

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

The activities required contradict your description of what you consider casual play. You can't approach the enormous shopping list caually. You do need to plan what you do. You won't get there by cutting down some trees. You won't get there by messing around in jumping puzzles. You'll never get there if you have no real goal in mind. You need very particular tasks performed ad nauseam, every move planned or you won't get there. You won't casually come into possession of 300 provisioner tokens. Most of the tasks will never happen if you play casually. You'll need to play focused and with intent, performing a lot of busywork that can hardly be classified under "just playing", like the aforementioned provisioner tokens. Focus and intent are the polar opposites of casual. I can't believe I need to argue this. Acquiring open world legendary armor is as far from "casual" as content can get.

Sure you can. You say you can't, but you can.  I had a woman in my guild, and one day she comes ot me, and she says, you know, I'm bored. I've been playing this game for years, and I don't raid or play fractals, and I keep doing the same stuff over and over again. What do you suggest I do.

I said why not make a legendary.

She was like no, I can't do that, that's hard. It's complicated. It's confusing. 

I started asking her questions. How many ectos do you have. How many obsidian shards. How many laurels. Just from playing she had an entire legendary, except for a gift of battle. She'd already done world complete a number of times, because that was fun for her. That same woman, who's in her 70s btw, now has 11 legendary weapons. And yes, she's casual. She wasn't playing hard core, even though she played a lot. She cut down trees a lot, and mined orr, because that's how she played, but you couldn't call her a hard core farmer. She found what she did that was fun, and just kept doing it.

It's true she needed a nudge to get her first legendary weapon, but that's what an MMO is, isn't it. It's social. She still plays, and she's still having fun. She did try to get the PvP legendary armor set, but she hated it and stopped. It was making her hate the game. She's really looking forward to getting some stuff together to get the new legendary armor.

She doesn't need it. She's not raiding or WvWing. She only WvWs when she needs a gift of battle. And she's not running around doing dungeons or even fractals, exccept low level ones when I can talk her into them. She's just running around doing whatever, and she's getting legendary weapons, just by screwing around. 

Yes, I had to show her the first time, but casual players can get legendary gear. It takes them a couple of years sometimes, for a single piece, but so what? It's something they can do as long as they can chip away at it. You only have to break it into one task at a time.